The Dr. Jeff Show Ep. 84 – David Galvan

Episode 84: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

Dr. Jeff interviews David Galvan about the issue of suicide, focusing on how individuals and faith communities could effectively intervene and offer support. Galvan discusses the widespread nature of the suicide epidemic across all age groups and addresses the common fear that talking about suicide could be suggestive, arguing instead that silence is more dangerous.

Galvan shares his personal motivation stemming from a “diffusion of suicides” in his local county and outlines practical methods for engaging in conversations with those in despair. Key strategies include asking direct questions, providing hope and social connection, and understanding the warning signs.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:02):
Hello everyone. Welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show podcast available on Apple, Google, Spotify, Edifi, Liftable, and wherever you get your podcast. If you like the show, please take a moment to review it on your favorite platform that helps more people find out about the incredible work of the guests on this show, who are major thought leaders from many fields of influence showing how our worldview changes everything.

Our guest today has spoken to over 20,000 students on Whole Person Health, which includes the area of mental health that so many people today struggle with. And we’re going to learn how to be friends to people who are in dark places, specifically related to the issue of suicide. This conversation is a breakthrough for me, and I hope it will be for you as well. Please welcome David Galvan to the show. David Galvan, welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show podcast.

David Galvan (00:56):
Hey, thanks so much for having me.

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:57):
Listen, I’ve been looking forward to this conversation for a long time, wanting to have it, but knowing that it was going to be difficult, this conversation that we are having today could save lives.

David Galvan (01:09):
Yeah, 100%.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:10):
David, the work that you have done with the students at Summit Ministries and with students in El Paso County and some other places is addressing the issue of suicide. We know we have a suicide epidemic among young people. What’s not as widely known is that we have a suicide epidemic among middle-aged people, and we have a suicide epidemic among older people who have thought that maybe their best years are behind them.

So this is something that we all need to be thinking about, but at the same time, it’s terrifying because if you talk about it or mention it or seem like a safe person to talk to, then you may end up in some conversations and you think, oh man, life and death is in the balance here.

David Galvan (02:08):
It is the, number one to me, thing that people think about when they say, I can’t talk about it. We can’t talk about it. It’s even brave or courageous, I would say, for us to even have this conversation on a podcast, people are like, I’m going to have to turn this down in the car. I have to make sure my AirPods stay in and the Bluetooth doesn’t go off. So other people in the room don’t hear this.

Dr. Jeff Myers (02:31):
Is that because they’re afraid it might have the power of suggestion?

David Galvan (02:35):
And I think what’s interesting is that you can’t put the thought of suicide in somebody’s head. Research has shown that over and over again. When I talk to parents, I said, I think you’re really powerful. I think you have some strong suggestions to your students, but they still aren’t making their beds. So just because you talk about making your beds doesn’t mean that they’re just going to automatically go do this. And they’re like, well, suicide is more serious.

There’s a lot of topics that we discuss, but the moment that we make something taboo, I’ll just say it this way, we let the enemy win because his goal is to silence it. Because if you don’t talk about it, it’s hidden. It’s in the dark. If it’s in the dark, then we can leave it there. But I think this issue, this topic, needs light shone on it in different ways.

Dr. Jeff Myers (03:21):
Yeah, let’s dive in.

David Galvan (03:22):
Okay, let’s do it.

Dr. Jeff Myers (03:23):
Tell us a little bit about what led to this conversation, because you and I met when there was a, would you say suicide epidemic in El Paso County?

David Galvan (03:33):
Yeah, we had what they call a diffusion of suicides during the time.

Dr. Jeff Myers (03:37):
Yeah, okay. So what does that mean?

David Galvan (03:38):
It means essentially that in less than two weeks, we had 10 students die by suicide in our county alone.

Dr. Jeff Myers (03:44):
In this county.

David Galvan (03:44):
In this county. And this was in 2016 when this was starting. And it rocked not only our county, our city, but it rocked our faith community because many of these students were part of faith communities. So much so that there was an article that came out during that time in our local newspaper that essentially said that young life was being held responsible for the death of these students.

Dr. Jeff Myers (04:12):
Because many of these students were in young life groups.

David Galvan (04:17):
And in my zeal, never again. So never again will we have this be told about the faith community here in El Paso County in our county. And so that began the trajectory of the route that I’m on now, and helping communities, youth pastors, faith communities know how to have the conversations around suicide and have prevention and intervention available to them. But even postvention, what do we do after a suicide for these communities? How do we host suicide loss survivor groups?

Suicide is one of those issues that hasn’t been politicized, that hasn’t been taken a blue or red position. It is simply a matter of fact. And so we want to make sure that we help in that situation. And the church is positioned around this topic to do some marvelous work with such a dark issue.

Dr. Jeff Myers (05:10):
Well, let’s talk about that with communities and churches, but I want to be sure that we have time as we finish the show to talk about what this conversation looks like or what happens if we end up in this conversation.

David Galvan (05:26):
Oh, yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (05:27):
Or what happens if somebody who’s watching or listening has been thinking about suicide? So there’s a lot to do there, and I just pray to the Lord that we’ll be able to wisely cover what we need to cover in just the time that we have. But I recognize what happened here in El Paso County. I’m so grateful for you and the work that you did there. I know of another community where I connected you with someone and you’ve been able to help them and their community as well. So that may be a really significant outcome.

(06:04):
That people say, okay, finally there’s somebody who’s willing to talk about this and maybe come in and help our community. But so let’s say there is in some community, there’s a diffusion of suicide and people are crying out for help, and you realize, wow, this is across all kinds of young people. It isn’t even necessarily young people that you might expect. I should have known, I should have, I should have. I should always comes up in our minds.

I had a friend who committed suicide two years ago, and there were so many conversations among all of his friends as we just sat together to try to figure out what happened and then process through our grief, but also that sense that, is there anything we could have done differently? So we don’t want to end the conversation today with that question unanswered.

David Galvan (06:58):
No, no, no, definitely. No. I think should is one of those words that, my father-in-law says it all the time. He says, should now, S-H-O-U-L-D, quit shoulding all over yourself. And so they put it in that way, and really it positions us in a place of shame, and the enemy comes at that point. He is the king of shame. And so it doesn’t help. It doesn’t help, but it is a part of the grieving process. And so yeah, we definitely don’t want to end there, but we’re definitely going to give some ways to help and ways to connect us to resources that can help.

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:34):
Okay. So we want to go two different directions. One is, first of all, the community. So let’s say people who are watching or listening are in a community of faith and they feel like we could do something. This is our time. This is our time to step up, kind of line out for us what a community should do.

David Galvan (07:55):
During that time or even before. So there’s typically four people that we need to consider in regards to suicide, those that are thinking about suicide, those that have lived experience or that have had a suicide attempt in the past, those that have lost someone to suicide or those that are near that suicide. So they’re on the precipice. There’s something going on around them, and the warning signs are starting to happen. Those are all the four individuals that we’re thinking about.

As a faith community, there’s many things that we can do as a faith community, but the first and foremost is that we are a community that’s equipped and trained, that we learned the information and we know what to look for. I purchased a car, and as I purchased that car, I was like, nobody has this car. We always want to be unique with our cars, but we have so many silver, black, and white cars on the road. But I was like, I think I beat the process. I found a car that I never knew existed in my mind.

Dr. Jeff Myers (08:50):
Your own color.

David Galvan (08:51):
My own color, my own unique color. And I was like, we’re good. We’re good. Nobody else has this vehicle. And come to find out that somebody who I’d been working with very, very closely had the same color, same model, make and year, and I’m one of three in our community that has that same color.

And so I say that because often we don’t see what we’re not looking for. And I love the scripture where the Lord says, seek and you shall find. You’ll always find what you’re looking for. And they’re like, what do you mean? No, no, no. If you sit long enough, you’re going to make something happen. But for suicide, we should be observant of clues. What are they saying verbally?

(09:33):
What are they communicating? Things like, nobody really cares. It doesn’t really matter. I’m not going to be here. Things like that. Now, those are some dramatic ones, but it may just be as simple as there’s nothing else left. I’m kind of done. Little phrases that you’re like, oh, what does that mean? And we can talk about behavioral things. Are they giving away things? Are they giving away prized possessions?

And then we’re looking at situational things that are happening. Maybe they are in a divorce or they lost a friend of suicide, they’re the most at risk after suicide, or they lost a job or they had a transition for students. I often let parents know when they transition from middle school to high school, pay attention, not just because you’re going to have to buy on different supplies, but because this is a change. It’s a very definitive next chapter. And anytime we have a transition, we’re looking for clues during that time.

Dr. Jeff Myers (10:30):
Okay, that’s really interesting. So students who are moving from middle school to high school, students who are moving from high school to college. College, yes. Students who are trying to move from college into the world of work, we want to be particularly sensitive during those times. Yeah. Now you have a process that you teach to the Summit Ministries students about question, persuade, refer.

David Galvan (10:54):
Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (10:55):
Can you mention that? I think this is just to know that we can talk about suicide is helpful, but what do you say? Or I mean, help us imagine that conversation. For people like myself, I’m actually kind of an introvert, which is weird because I’m always doing public speaking and podcasting and all of that, but I know I kind of want to be left alone sometimes, and I just sort of assume that other people want to be left alone. I’m a little nervous about engaging in a difficult conversation because I think I might get stuck in this and I don’t know what to do.

David Galvan (11:33):
Right. Well, that question, persuade, refer model is actually a national organization, and you can actually find what they call it QPR, and you can find any of those trainings in your neighborhood or in your community. So just look it up. And I would actually encourage you to go to those trainings. They’re about an hour and a half, two hours long depending on where you’re going. And they’re really teaching you a model on how to have those conversations and what that looks like.

For our purposes, I would even utilize what we call a call model. What are we committed to? What’s our commitment? How do we ask, how do we listen and how do we lead? And the reason why I say that’s because as faith people, we’re committed to taking care of our brother. We hear the scripture, am I not my brother’s keeper? And in the faith community, we are as much as we are like, no, no, no, no. We have a commitment to that. And so I am my brother’s keeper, which then leads me to say, okay, then how do I ask?

People are afraid of this question. I can’t ask it. If I ask it, then I’m going to put it in their head like we talked about earlier. But here’s what I know about individuals thinking about suicide. The research has shown us that most people are wanting to tell their story, but nobody’s asked.

Dr. Jeff Myers (12:47):
Okay.

David Galvan (12:47):
Nobody’s asked. Could you imagine going through an entire day and you’re like, I’m hurting, I’m hurting, I’m hurting, but I can’t burden somebody else. Yeah. The number one response when I talk to students of why they don’t communicate to somebody else is they say this, I don’t want to put another burden on my parents. Could you imagine being a 15-year-old, 16-year-old student and all you’re thinking about is, I don’t want to add another burden. My parents have too much going on already.

Now let’s go to adult people. Let’s just go to adults. We’d never want to put a burden on somebody else. Well, whatever’s convenient for you, whenever it works, if you get around to it, we say things like this and it’s become part of our ethos of who we are. But the reality is this idea of burden is actually well documented in the scriptures that say, take on my burden.

(13:41):
He says, take on my yoke. And it’s interesting that we’ve gotten to this place where we don’t want to be a burden, so we don’t want to ask, but we need to ask. We must ask in order to ask. I’ll give you a story. I teach this method through different trainings that people can become certified in.

But I teach this method of asking this question, and I remember going, and I have permission to share this story with a local youth pastor, and he was in the training, and he’s sitting there and we’re going through this process of, how do you ask the question? And everyone’s doing their one-on-one part and they’re doing their activity, and he’s sitting there and he goes, I can’t do it. And our debrief, he’s like, I couldn’t do it. He said, I couldn’t see having to ask one of my students this question.

(14:25):
And I tell people, and I just think it’s me just betting on the Lord. I said, you’ll probably have to use this in the next three to four days. I was like, always guarantee probably the next three or four days you’re going to have to do this. And I can’t tell you how many countless text messages, emails, phone calls, people are like, I used your question. I used your question. I was like, it’s not even my question, but I know what they mean. And so he calls, it’s a Monday, says, I had to use your question last night.

(14:51):
On my boss’s son at the church that he worked at. His boss had no idea, his dad had no idea, but he used that. And I tell people all the time that life is around because somebody asked the question. There’s various ways that you can ask the question. So a couple ways that you could do this, if you’re concerned about someone, we ask that you ask it directly. There’s indirect ways that you can do it. I’m a proponent of being very direct.

And so you can say things like people that have gone through what you’ve gone through or are going through what you’re going through, have thought about suicide. Are you thinking about suicide? Just very like, Hey, I know you’re going through a situation and people that have gone through a situation have thought about suicide. Are you thinking about suicide? Another method is they ask the question of, are you thinking about killing yourself? And people are like, you asked it that directly. I’m like, yeah, because you can’t get around it.

When I ask that question, you’re either going to get a yes or no, and if you get a, maybe that’s a yes. So we’re very clear, and every time that I’ve done this in a training or where I’ve gone, people have said this when it was asked to me, we practice it just to practice it like CPR, we practice it. And they said, when it was asked to me, I never felt so seen. They’ll say things like.

Dr. Jeff Myers (16:10):
And this is in the training.

David Galvan (16:11):
In the training, usually with somebody they don’t even know sometimes, and they’re like, I never felt like somebody cared so much. I was like, just by asking the question, are you thinking about killing yourself? You felt that cared for. I’ve been in trainings with faith leaders, high level faith leaders. I remember this faith leader said, I’ve asked the question over 200 times to different people that I’ve administered to or came alongside, but not once has somebody asked me and I’ve been waiting for someone to ask me.

(16:42):
And I wept because how many leaders, how many young people are just waiting for someone? For some reason, that question puts that much care into somebody and value. And so you’re that concerned that you would cross the threshold of awkwardness of intimacy and say, hey, are you thinking about killing yourself?

And in doing so, you ask the question, if they say yes, then you have a process. You’re either calling 911, you’re taking them to a behavioral center that’s in your community, or if it’s no, then saying, hey, now you’re going to decide. You are showing some concerning things. Are there ways that we can talk about this and get the help that you need?

Dr. Jeff Myers (17:29):
And that is, how would you know where to take somebody in your community?

David Galvan (17:36):
So there’s a couple of resources. You can definitely call the National Suicide Hotline number. You just look it up. It’s National Suicide Hotline number. I would actually encourage you to put it in your phone. I have the National Suicide Hotline number in my phone. I have now, just recently, as of July 16th, 988, you can actually dial nine eighty eight on your phone and it’ll be connected to the National Suicide Hotline number.

Dr. Jeff Myers (17:58):
988.

David Galvan (17:59):
And they’ll just go right to there and they’ll begin that process with you. The other ways that you can look for this is if you look in your community, so whether you look up behavioral health in whatever county or whatever city you’re in, they usually have a map of what that looks like and ways to get that resource. Most of those behavioral health clinics have 24 hour assessments, so it’s not an automatically go to the ER, but you definitely can.

But if you go to the behavioral health clinic, we have one here that’ll do a 24 hour assessment. They’ll do both a mental wellness check as well as a physical wellness check. And here’s amazing about how the Lord wired us. The body never lies. There’s a great resource called The Body Keeps the Score. And inside that, they talk about how your body is actually holding onto those things that are going on. And it’s amazing to think about.

So they do those things at the behavioral health clinics to identify, and then they start them on a process. And therapy would be maybe one of those processes. It’s not everyone, some of them, it’s just identifying what coping skills we need, what are the things that we do to help us and manage these things that are going on? And some of us identify really, what is the problem?

(19:10):
There are some people that just say, I want to kill myself. And because they think that’s the solution to what’s currently going on. And so we want to help them with that. Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (19:19):
I appreciate these stories so much. Can I play out a conversation with you, please? My wife, Stephanie and I were traveling. We sat next to a guy. It was when the Roe v Wade decision leaked. So all of a sudden it was okay to talk about Roe v. Wade, even among people who knew they would disagree with one another. It was a brief moment after the actual decision came out.

David Galvan (19:45):
Small window.

Dr. Jeff Myers (19:45):
It got pretty angry, but at the time it was like, yeah, what do you think about that? And all of that. So we were having this conversation on an airplane because Stephanie was reading a newspaper and the guy sitting next to her asked to see it. And when we were talking about it, he expressed his view about abortion. And then he said something I found very surprising. I’d like to know how you would handle it if this came up.

David Galvan (20:11):
Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (20:12):
Okay, so here we are. We’re on air.

David Galvan (20:14):
I like it. This is, we’re on air.

Dr. Jeff Myers (20:15):
David’s on the spot. Yeah. He said, well, I grew up with a single mom. I basically raised myself, and it just would’ve been a lot better if she had just gotten an abortion, which is not at all the direction I thought the conversation was going to go.

David Galvan (20:41):
No.

Dr. Jeff Myers (20:44):
And of course, I think both Stephanie and I at that point, I mean, we dropped everything that we were reading or whatever, all focused on him asking about his life and what he had to live for and things like that. But I’d like to just, if I ever end up in a situation like that again, if you were sitting in that seat there and somebody said that that’s a sign of despair, why would he care about abortion policy? Because he wishes that he himself had been aborted. He must’ve had so many miserable things happen.

David Galvan (21:21):
There are many desperate people in our world. And so I think it’s often that we, and this is really good for us to think about even in a church situation. So I’m going to take that context and even put it within a church context. There are desperate people in our churches, desperate people, and the desperate are among us wanting someone to reach out. And I think this man did something courageous, yet seemed courageous by saying she would’ve been better off aborting me. That is a significant cry of desperation.

And you all did asking questions, and I probably would’ve asked the question of what would it look like if that was the case? What would’ve it looked like? What would the world look like differently? And why would that be better? I’m the byproduct of a teen pregnancy, never met my biological dad. And that thought comes across often. Why didn’t they just do that? I would’ve been fine. I didn’t have to worry about all these dad issues or things that are insecure inside of me.

But I also recollect the things that even with this man, when he said, I did all these things on my own, I raised myself. And I’m like, what an accomplishment. What an accomplishment to say that because my belief, just so you know, philosophy is like.

(22:50):
I just think that we think we’re, and so in that time to create that moment, because here’s what people need. They need a glimmer of hope. They need a glimmer of hope. So a former assistant surgeon General said this phrase, Mr. David Lititz. He said, many people die by suicide for many different reasons, but it often comes down to two, a loss of hope and a loss of social connection. And if the church of Jesus Christ can’t do anything about that, it might as well close its doors. Wow. Wow.

So this man is expressing desperation, and what he needs is hope. And so anytime of those conversations, I’m going to ask some questions that I’m going to offer hope. What’s interesting about hope, it’s universal. Doesn’t matter if it’s secular faith, we all want hope, but the interesting thing about hope is that I can offer that to you, and you’re not going to shove it back to me. Everybody wants it. I just want hope.

(24:01):
But I want it to look the way that I want it to. Just like when I go to Starbucks or I go to McDonald’s, I want my order to look the way that I want it to look, or I’m giving it back. And so I think there’s a way that we can deliver hope across these situations, conversations. So I would ask them, what are things that you are hopeful for? Well, nothing. So how do we identify what hope looks like?

So tell me what you think hope is because just even at Summit, it’s taught, we ask questions so people can help us define, what does that word mean to them? I may be saying one word. It may be totally different to you. It may mean something totally different to you. Let’s define that in our conversation.

And so I would be offering hope in some format to him. And what does that look like? Hey, what’s tomorrow? What do you hope for in the next hour? Oh, that we land well, okay, let’s hope for that together. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I would ask for that along the way because I think hope is filling a cylinder jar with small rocks. You just keep filling it. Now, in the faith world, we have one big giant rock.

(25:05):
But sometimes for some reason in that cylinder, it ends up being a small rock that we forget that we’re still on that rock. And so there are ways to do that, and that conversation and bringing around to the idea of hope is always available. And then going from there and seeing what that looks like. But yeah, I think you all the way that you even asked the story and just paused, how many people don’t pause for us to listen to our story?

Dr. Jeff Myers (25:33):
Wow.

David Galvan (25:34):
Think about it throughout the day.

Dr. Jeff Myers (25:35):
Well, I can’t imagine it. You can’t hear what you don’t feel that you have the emotional capacity to hear, but I want to treat that seriously because as I say it, I think, boy, that sounds awfully selfish to say that I don’t want to end up stuck in a conversation that could be life defining for somebody. It sounds horrible when I say it, but there are so many.

David, you were driving here today. You stop at a store. How many people do you see? We could end up in conversations five hours a day. You can’t pay attention to every single thing that’s happening around you. Give some help to us in this. How do you become emotionally available? Or maybe I need to explore why I feel it’s so hard to be emotionally available.

David Galvan (26:35):
I think both are great questions because one is we must be able to identify what are our limits, because as faith people, as people in general, we are not limitless.

(26:47):
We have limits. There are only certain things that I can do with this body, even if I try. There are only certain things. And we have this idea as humans that we’re like, we can go pass anything. We can do anything. I can make 40 hours happen in one day. This is not, we have limits. There are certain limits that you just can’t break. We have limits as people. And when we understand limits, then we can understand boundaries and we understand boundaries. And people are like, well, boundaries are just a way to get out of a conversation. I know if I live boundaryless, then I myself am the first person that I don’t take care of.

(27:22):
I’m the person that at the end of the day, when it says, love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, and soul, if I can’t take care of my heart, mind, and soul, I can’t love ’em with the Lord God. So I must take care of that as I take care of my neighbor. And so in order to do that, I have to make sure that I have understood limits and I understand boundaries.

And I also understand that in the midst of this, that the divinity of who he is is working in the midst of this. When we look at the Hebrew in Genesis one, we see this idea of, the earth was without form. And we know that word to be this. It’s something is forming, something is happening. And so in each conversation something is happening.

(28:05):
What is being birthed? My job is not always to be the guy that goes from 9 to 10 for somebody. My job is to be the person to move him from a one to a two or three to a four, whatever that may be. But my job ultimately is to listen. How do I know? Well, scripture says be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to anger. The only thing that we’re supposed to be fast at is listening.

So I remember one day I had a hoodie, and I think sometimes we can talk so much through a hoodie. A shirt says so much, right? You wear a shirt and everyone’s like, I want to talk to you. So I have a shirt that says: It’s okay not to be okay.

(28:43):
And I wear this hoodie around after I do speaking events, I wear shirts to provoke people to talk. I do it on purpose. I want them to have the conversation. So I was at a cashier at a local gas station, I’m buying my drinks and I’m leaving. And before I even checked out, she’s like, thank you so much. I needed that. And I was like, I needed what? And she’s like, no, I needed that. And I was like, what? She goes, your hoodie. And I was like, oh yeah, I’m wearing this thing. She goes, I needed to know that today.

(29:14):
And I think the Holy Spirit in the midst of all that is that thing that we have to tune into and be aware of. And so yeah, we can’t have every conversation, but we must be aware of the conversations that we should be having. And I think that’s those promptings.

So one of the things that we were talking about even earlier before we got on air is the woman with the issue of blood. I think for her desperation, being doctors for 12 plus years, 14 years, that just are like, we can’t tell what’s wrong with you. Everybody knows you’re unclean in the community. Everybody knows your issue. And there’s a crowd of people and there’s this man, the Messiah that everyone’s talking about, and it’s coming through. And I’m pretty sure the disciples are keeping her away too, because they kept children away. They definitely kept adults away.

And so they’re walking through and she got so far in her desperation. She said, if I touch his clothes, I’ll be healed. Somewhere along the line, it is the person that’s like, I’ll try every infomercial to just make sure I get healed. And she grabbed that cloak and it said this. It said she grabbed the cloak and he turned and saw her. Wow.

(30:32):
And I think to answer your question through the lens of Jesus would be to say, maybe you’re not having to have all those conversations, but do you see them? Do you see them? Because when he turned and saw her, it says this, he turned and saw her, and she trembled and told him her whole life story. And when I train churches, I tell them, I know how your church will handle me by your greeting at the door. And they’re like, what do you mean? There’s a phrase that we use in our culture that says, Hey, how are you? But we want one answer.

Dr. Jeff Myers (31:20):
Good.

David Galvan (31:20):
I’m fine. Fine. And then we carry on. How are you? Is never meant to be a greeting. It was meant to be an inquiry into somebody’s soul. So that I see. And so then what do we say? I go, how about you say, I’m glad to see you, glad you’re here. Glad you can make it today. Because when I see you in the midst of the turmoil that you’re going through, this woman with the issue of blood, when I turn and see you, the kingdom in the eyes, the depths of hope are put into somebody. Yeah. Because you know how many times during the day we walk through, does anybody really see me?

(32:02):
I’m that invisible. And so I’m that invisible to everybody. And I think that if we as a faith community would turn and we would see the desperate among us, and we would know the conversations that were to have, and then also know who to were to partner with. I can’t reach everybody that you reach and vice versa. But I can’t have every conversation. But I can tell somebody upfront, Hey, I have this amount of time and I’m willing to listen. Is that doable for you? And who say No? Okay, well let’s find somebody who is. And so we can definitely help in that process.

Dr. Jeff Myers (32:41):
Yeah.

David Galvan (32:42):
Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (32:42):
Well, it’s so helpful. This is the health of a community and people acknowledging what is already happening. We’re not making something happen. It’s not like we’re putting a spell on somebody is what you’re saying, but you’re just acknowledging what may already be going on. David, whenever I learn something new, it does sometimes seem like everything then becomes about that. I learned some coaching skills and I’m like, every single conversation in six months, where would you like to be that you’re not now?

David Galvan (33:30):
That’s awesome.

Dr. Jeff Myers (33:30):
I had a hammer and my little coaching hammer. Everything was a nail, right?

David Galvan (33:35):
Yes.

Dr. Jeff Myers (33:37):
When you become aware of the pain that is around you in your community, it could also be overwhelming just in the sense of, wow, I’m now sensitive to something I wasn’t thinking about very much before. And I’d love for you to address that a little bit, because you don’t presumably want to be going around asking every person you meet. No. Have you thought about suicide? But talk a little bit more about what you’re sensitive to. I mean, when does your warning bell go off?

David Galvan (34:20):
This question was actually asked by a student at my last, I was just at, a couple weeks ago, at session four or five and Summit Ministries, ministries and the student conferences. And a student asked during the q and a time, what do you do? Because hearing all these hard stories and you’re hearing these deep things, how do you do this? And I think about Jesus often when he would minister to everybody and then all of a sudden he would go to his place or go to his quiet place.

Dr. Jeff Myers (34:51):
Sail away.

David Galvan (34:52):
Sail away. And I think for us, for us, he wasn’t escaping. He was understanding the concept and the idea of like, hey, I need to take care of this body, soul, mind. And so first and foremost, within all of us, we must take care of that. We must take care of that mind of ours and figure out ways to give it times to reflect, times to selah, times to also just breathe. As doing this work on a regular basis, I could probably look for it all day and find it. I could, but I have to find a place to breathe in the midst of that.

Dr. Jeff Myers (35:30):
And mentioning the life of Christ is incredibly powerful because in Mark chapter one, there were people, Jesus left unhealed who wanted to be healed. There were people who wanted to hear him preach that he didn’t preach to, that Jesus was responsive to the will of his heavenly Father, not necessarily what other people wanted from him.

David Galvan (35:54):
And there was a man at the gate that he passed regularly. And then when his disciples finally came back around, he was healed. But could you imagine? So the Savior complex has to be removed in the midst of this. I’m not the savior. I’m a messenger and a messenger that asks a question, but I am already looking for the ways to say, hey, this is the person that I need to do that with. And sometimes I’ll just be very clear that, sometimes it’s, the hardest ones are the ones the closest to you.

(36:30):
So how do we decipher who to ask or when to ask is number one, trust your gut because the Holy Spirit’s moving and you know that this is going to happen. Or number two, you could use suicide in a sentence. You could just say, Hey, I was listening to a podcast the other day about suicide, and it’s kind of like just stepping into the kitty side of the pool and just like, let me just see.

Be like, hey, I just think listening to a podcast with suicide the other day, and I thought it was amazing. They were talking about this, this, and this. And then see what happens. You don’t have to do it all the time, but then also if you’re looking for people, you’re always going to look for what you find. So this is not a scavenger hunt. This is simply a Holy Spirit moment of you saying, all right, Lord, who am I supposed to minister today?

(37:17):
I’m a big proponent for identifying those people and saying, oh, you’ll feel the prompting. You’ll see I got to turn around and look, and you’ll see those people. The other day, my daughter and I were at In-N-Out and we’re just eating a burger and noticed two individuals that had some physical disabilities and had some wheelchairs, and it was going to make it difficult for them to get out of their push doors at this In-N-Out.

So we were right next to the door. So we just opened it for them and sat back down and kept eating, opened it again for them. They were eating outside. And this couple came up to us afterwards. You never know who’s watching you. But this couple came up to us afterwards and said, you are two phenomenal human beings. And all we did was open doors and noticed.

(38:04):
But it’s not every time that we do that, there’s other times where I’ve sat at an In-N-Out and I just watched somebody struggle. I was like, maybe they need that struggle right now. I was like, I just watched them. But why do I say that? Because people who are desperate know and feel and understand how people are going to respond to them by the conversations they overhear. And so I think one of the ways that we know who to help and when to help is identifying who’s overhearing our conversations.

You ever been in a conversation where somebody’s overhearing and you’re like, they’re listening to what you’re saying? So all of a sudden you pay attention even more to what you’re saying. And I think that’s the thing as a listener, as somebody viewing this to think, okay, who are the people around me that are overhearing that concentric circle, that one level right outside of me that’s just hearing and how are they hearing it? Because they know how I’m going to respond to this. And so I would look for them.

Dr. Jeff Myers (38:57):
Well, they’re deciding whether you’re the kind of person who can be safe to confide in because some people aren’t. And there are a lot of believers who just say, look, all you need to get down on your knees. You need to trust Jesus right now, and that will solve all of your problems.

David Galvan (39:15):
If that was the case, then everybody would do it. Because if that was a proven case, meaning that instantaneously, the moment I got to my knees and I prayed, everything changed. It’s a gimmick. It’s a gimmick at that time.

Dr. Jeff Myers (39:28):
But you can use questions to, this is the work of the Holy Spirit we’re talking about here. Holy Spirit doesn’t get talked about in a lot of churches. Other churches, he’s the only one that gets talked about.

David Galvan (39:40):
Gets talked about, yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (39:43):
But Holy Spirit scripture uses this term, Paraclete, which means to walk alongside, to mentor, to be a companion, to be a comfort to. And so the Holy Spirit is the one working through us to bring about his will. And it’s certainly possible in the course of a conversation to say, tell me about your spiritual beliefs.

David Galvan (40:12):
Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (40:12):
Have you ever thought about Jesus?

David Galvan (40:16):
Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (40:17):
Those kinds of questions. Now, maybe it’s because we’re in Manitou Springs and everybody wants to talk about spiritual things all the time. Maybe I just feel like, oh, well, this is a natural part of a conversation. Maybe it’s not. Most places, I’ve never met anybody who said, I’m not interested in talking about spiritual things. Even if all they want to talk about is ghosts. I mean, they still want to talk about spiritual things. So I don’t know. Maybe those are some ways, but you don’t want to, your goal is not to end the problem. Your goal is to help the person find hope.

David Galvan (40:52):
Yeah. You as a person that is listening, you as a person that is currently going through and navigating this, the thing that we’re looking for is an intervention. It’s something to intervene. And the one that intervenes is the Holy Spirit. I love the analogy of the Holy Spirit because the Paraclete or the encourager, or we actually see the translation of the counselor. I’m going to leave you with a counselor.

And it’s so funny that often I comically, I’ll say this sometimes, but I’m like, but that’s the first person that we won’t send people to is a counselor. And I was like, but he said he was going to leave us a counselor. And so, yeah.

(41:27):
We should talk about this. But what I think about is in the midst of this is we’re looking for someone to intervene. And we see this in the scriptures. Acts 16, we see Paul and Silas intervene. Paul and Silas had just been beaten in front of everybody. They’re in a jail and an earthquake happens. Doors fly open. And the jailer, it literally says this, the doors fly open, chains came loose, the jailer awoke, and he’s about to draw a sword and kill himself.

Then verse 28 says this. It says, but Paul shouted, don’t kill yourself. We’re all here. Some translations say, don’t harm yourself. It says, don’t kill yourself. We’re all here. And that intervention caused this. Watch what happens. Verse 29, it says, Acts 16, verse 29 says, then the jailer called for the lights.

(42:18):
And he ran to the feet of Paul and Silas, and he says this phrase. What must I do to be saved? So watch this, watch this. This is a powerful thing to me. Number one is the lights were totally dark on somebody’s life right now. The lights are totally dark. You know what? The earthquake, to me, is a metaphor of a shattering moment. Their life was just shattered. This jailer was like, I’m done for, I’m done. I have nothing to look forward to. I’m going to die. He says, I’ll kill myself.

Paul, in the middle of darkness, yells, don’t kill yourself. We’re all here. How does he know any of that? I know it’s dark because the next verse tells me that he asks for the lights to come on. But if we look at the rest of the scripture, we realize this jailer came to the feet.

(42:58):
What must I do to be saved? And then that day, he and his household were baptized. So one person in the middle of darkness yelled, don’t kill yourself. We’re all here and change the trajectory of an entire family.

And so as those of us that are listening today, number one, if you’re one of those people today contemplating suicide, I’ll say this, don’t kill yourself. We’re all here. We’re all here. If you’re someone who has had a lived experience, you’ve not killed yourself because we’re all here. Those that have lost to someone, to suicide, don’t kill yourself. We’re all here. Those that have had are contemplating or even in that process right now. Don’t kill yourself. We’re all here.

And if I could give anything to the faith community, it’s to let people know we’re all here because the tangibleness of a person, a human being, to say that we’re all here could change the trajectory of someone’s eternal life, not just physical life. And I think when we talk about suicide, just like any other issue, it has eternal consequences for people’s life and death. And I encourage you to ask those questions, and to intervene on those lives because life and death weigh in the balances.

Dr. Jeff Myers (44:25):
David, this is an amazing conversation. I’m so grateful for your taking time to be here. I appreciate your vulnerability. Appreciate your practical counsel, and I’m grateful to have the opportunity to have a show like this. Some of our shows are really intellectual and heady, and we’re dealing with all of these, the world of ideas kind of thing. But we mustn’t forget that we have bodies and we have a lived experience, and that’s part of God’s design for us. That’s on purpose.

(44:56):
So these kinds of engagements are part of what the Holy Spirit does to guide us into becoming the people he wants us to be. So thanks for being on the show today. Thank you. Thank you to my guest today, David Galvan, for joining the show. If you’d like to learn more about how to minister to those affected by suicidal desperation, I would encourage you to visit the website, www.soulshopmovement.org, soul shop movement.org, and that way you can find out more about the work of David and maybe he can help in your community.

The Psalms remind us that our highest highs and our lowest lows are all part of our shared human experience. And darkness, sometimes even in scripture, helps us understand God’s light even more. Psalm 30 declares you kept me from falling into the pit of death and clothed me with joy. We here at Summit Ministries encourage you to surround yourself with people who love you, to remind yourself of the God who loves you so much and he gave his son for you. Thanks for joining. We’ll see you next week.

(46:04):
Hey, it’s Dr. Jeff from the Dr. Jeff Show podcast. I’m excited to be releasing a new book. This is the book I wrote during my cancer journey called Truth Changes Everything. It’s the book that I thought, if this is the last thing I ever get to write, this is what I want to write about. I want to write about truth.

I think at the core of all of the cultural conflicts we have today is a battle over truth. I mean a battle between the idea of capital-T truth, that truth actually exists and can be discovered. And the idea of small-t truth, that ultimate truth cannot be known. Truth is up to the individual. One side says, seek the truth. The other side says, speak your truth. Have you faced this in your road life? The question as I wrote the book is, alright, so what do you do?

(46:50):
There’s really a battle. You can really see that truth exists, but what’s the most helpful thing? So I went back into history and I just wrote the book telling stories of amazing people who were Jesus followers, who believed that Jesus is the truth. And as a result of that belief, they changed the world even in times of great crisis when it seemed that the world is going to come to an end.

If that sounds like the kind of book you’d like to read, I’d love for you to pre-order a copy wherever you get your books. And if you will take a picture of your receipt and send it to me at jeff@summit.org. Then I’m going to send you a little signed book plate and then you can stick that inside your book. When it arrives, you’ll have a signed copy of the book. So the book is Truth Changes Everything, and my email is jeff@summit.org. Pre-order it please and then just send me the receipt and we’ll take it from there.

Listeners, I want you to know that our podcast is on Edifi, which is a truly powerful app that brings together thousands of the best Christian podcasts in one place for your listening enjoyment, you can download it at edifi.app. Be sure to share the show if you have enjoyed listening to it and leave a review if you would, on the site where you download the show that helps more people know about the Dr. Jeff Show, and I’ll look forward to seeing you next week.