The Dr. Jeff Show Ep. 41 – Kathy Koch

Episode 41: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

In this episode of the Dr. Jeff Show, host Dr. Jeff interviews Dr. Kathy Koch, founder and president of Celebrate Kids, an organization that provides resources to help parents develop their children’s potential. The conversation focuses on two main areas: understanding different types of intelligence and managing technology wisely. Dr. Koch emphasizes that every child is created smart by God in different ways, and understanding these diverse intelligences helps build confidence and reduces the pressure on children who may not excel in traditional school subjects.

The episode also addresses the challenges of technology and social media, and Dr. Koch provides practical advice for parents struggling with technology limits. The conversation concludes with encouragement for the rising generation to understand their God-given identity and purpose, and to find a community that celebrates their unique strengths while maintaining integrity in an increasingly connected world.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:02):
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show. This show’s available on Apple, Google, Spotify, Edifi, Liftable, and wherever you get your podcasts. If you enjoy the show, please tell your friends about it because on the Dr. Jeff Show, I interview major thought leaders from many fields of influence to show how worldview changes everything.

My guest today is Dr. Kathy Koch. She’s the founder and president of Celebrate Kids. This is an organization that provides resources and speaking books and so forth for parents to help them develop their children’s potential. This is going to be such a great show because we’re going to get into how do you help your children see their potential? How do you help them understand their smarts? How do you help manage technology in the home? It’s going to be very vulnerable and very real. Welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show. Dr. Kathy Koch, welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show.

Dr. Kathy Koch (01:01):
I’m so happy to be here, Jeff. Thank you for inviting me.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:05):
Well, you are one of my favorite speakers at Summit Ministries, and you are an all-time favorite with the students at Summit Ministries as well, because you really give them confidence that they’ve been designed by God for a purpose. And the advice that you’re able to give them about how to use technology wisely as well is fantastic. And they receive that from you in a way they probably could receive it from their peers or even from their parents. So you’ve had a key role in mentoring and shaping young adults at Summit. Thank you for that.

Dr. Kathy Koch (01:39):
Oh, it’s a privilege. I love being with your people and your students. They come in ready because you pray them in, and their parents and maybe grandparents and others are praying over them. And Jeff, it’s just been one of my favorite things to do. They’re teachable, they’re open, they’re delightful, their questions inspire me. They give me great hope. And I know that that’s one of the reasons you enjoy hanging out with them as well.

Dr. Jeff Myers (02:04):
That’s exactly right. Yeah. There are challenges in this rising generation. I guess there are challenges in every rising generation. But when you’re together with them, you get to see that they’re open and they’re teachable and they want to grow. They want to be closer to Jesus. They want to use their abilities to be an influence for good in our culture. So any young person who’s wrestling with their sense of purpose in life or who has a lot of questions about their faith, but they want to grow closer to Jesus and know how their faith in Jesus helps them live the rest of their life, that’s the right environment for them.

Dr. Kathy Koch (02:43):
Jeff, I think one of the things that we do there is help them understand that they’re multi-talented and multi-talented. Multi-talented, multi-passionate, multi-able, multi-interested. And that’s why they’re having a hard time with some of the decisions that their parents are begging them to make about their future. And when I say that to them, that it’s not that you’re apathetic.

It’s not that you don’t have a clue. You have so many clues because you’ve been exposed to so much over the worldwide web, which is one of the benefits of technology and one of the curses of technology, I suppose. And I love sharing that with them and giving them this awareness, whether they’re 16 or 25, that they were created for such a time as this. And they can look at all that they’re learning in the two weeks with all of us at Summit and figure some things out.

(03:31):
It’s one of my favorite things. I watch those light bulbs go on. And I’ve heard from parents after the fact, kids get home and parents talk with them and they have these new understandings about what the future holds. It’s really, really so cool.

Dr. Jeff Myers (03:45):
I want to have our audience for the Dr. Jeff Show get to know you a little bit, Dr. Kathy. And so just by, obviously they’ve seen the introduction, they know a little bit about what you’ve done, that you’re a bestselling author, that you’re a conference speaker, that you’ve really been able to steward a ministry to Celebrate Kids, to focus on this rising generation and to help everybody from parents to teachers to national leaders in focusing on this rising generation.

But I’d love to go back a little bit and just get you to talk about your story because you were a second grade teacher, you were a middle school coach, and then you were a school board member. And then you got a doctoral degree at a top university and became a full-time conference and keynote speaker. And I’m curious what it is that you observed about young adults in all of that teaching experience that made you want to become a communicator who focused on the formation of young adults.

Dr. Kathy Koch (04:51):
Oh, that’s interesting. Right. When I was a professor for seven years, most of my students were my age or older. I earned a PhD when I was only 28, which is somewhat young. And I was at a university with a lot of returning adult students. And so I was in the throes of ministering hope and healing to people who were raising up kids.

And I saw even 30 years ago how overwhelmed they were and really how I would, they didn’t really know what they were doing. And Jeff, it was the scripture. I mean, I had an earned PhD. I was a successful professor. I had been a successful school board member, coach, and teacher, but you don’t stay where you’re successful if it’s not where you belong. You’ve got to be, and you’ve left and you’ve moved on as well, but I kept hearing God talk to me about the parent.

(05:40):
Kathy, the parent is taught how to bathe, diaper feed, and they send you home with these kids without an education. And even though what I was doing to teach teachers was valuable, I knew biblically that a parent will always be a child’s first and foremost, most important teacher. And yet as a single person without children, I’m like, “I don’t have a right to speak into them.” And God’s like, “Oh no, I can equip you. I’ve equipped Jesus. I can equip you.”

One of my favorite things to remind people of is that Jesus wasn’t married and he wasn’t a dad, but he had a lot of wisdom for moms, dads, husbands, and wives. And so I do think he equips us through experiences and through the adventure of life. And I just couldn’t shake the fact that God was really calling me to minister to parents.

(06:27):
And of course, they are the young adults, and they are the ones. They need to be re-parented. Jeff, you and I have both been with, how many young adults have we been with, and they weren’t parented well. And I don’t say that in any kind of mean, harsh, or judgmental way. It just is what it is because they listen to us with the inner child, right? They’ll start to listen to me talk about how their children are smart in eight different ways.

And within 10 minutes, I watched the inner child come out and start listening. Now, wait, could this be true of me too? And so when you realize that they’re lacking some very foundational understandings that are going to influence the trajectory of their life, but also how they influence their children, which is the rest of their life. And frankly, it’s our future and I care deeply about that.

(07:11):
And so just passion. I’m passionate for the family. God ordained the family before who ordained the church. And so to minister to parents and grandparents and children, I love speaking to all the different groups and just privileged. And you got to be obedient. You’ve got to listen to God. What’s he calling you to?

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:33):
Yeah, that’s so good. And we’ve known one another for 20 years.

Dr. Kathy Koch (07:40):
I think, at least. Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:42):
Back when I was a professor at a college in Tennessee, teaching undergraduates and MBA students and then traveling to speak on the weekends, we met up I think at Christian school educator conferences. But in the last several years, you’ve developed a specialty. And there are two things I’d love to focus on, the eight great smarts.

And then also I want to talk about digital because a lot of our audience for this show are parents and grandparents and everybody’s doing the best they can. They’re just doing the best they can, but they sometimes find it difficult to encourage their children. And my wife, Stephanie, loves listening to your presentations because she grew up and was told in school that you’re not book smart, therefore you’re not smart, but she’s people smart, she’s nature smart, she’s body smart. She’s all these different smarts, but not ones that were celebrated in school.

(08:42):
And so this isn’t just a message for parents. It’s a message for anybody who is watching or listening right now that God has made you to be smart. He’s given you, as part of your identity, a sensitivity and an ability to engage with the world around you. And I’d love if you just describe a little bit of that because ultimately people need to read the book about the Eight Great Smarts. And we’ll have notes in the, wherever we put the notes for how to get things. We’ll have that for everybody, but I’d just love for you to share a little bit about that idea.

Dr. Kathy Koch (09:22):
Yeah. Thank you, Jeff. Dr. Howard Gardner is the researcher behind the model, but I enjoyed taking his work and making it practical and frankly adding a biblical Christian worldview and underlining to it all. Smart is a power word. Every child, every adult wants to know that they’re smart. And what was interesting to me was to find out that children who don’t think they’re smart don’t study. I used to think, well, if you don’t think you’re smart, you’d study more.

But in reality, if you’re a college student or maybe you’re looking to be promoted at work or you’re a young child and you don’t think that you’re smart, you don’t go for it because you don’t think studying will matter. So when we teach children, we don’t tell them, but we teach them that they were created by a good God in his image for his glory.

(10:03):
Therefore, he has made you smart in the ways that he wants you to be smart and you can walk forward into that understanding. And if you’re word smart and logic smart, those are what I call the school smarts because what do we do all day in school? We read, write, speak and listen, ask and answer questions. And so if you have a lot of brain cells in the logic and the word smart parts of your brain, you’re going to find traditional school and even church, an easier experience.

But Jeff, how many of us know people who were very successful in school, but have not been successful at life or the opposite, not very successful in school, but very successful in life. And that’s evidence that all eight matter. So the other six real quick, picture smart, we think with our eyes, music smart, we think with music, rhythms and melodies, body smart, we think with movement and touch, nature smart, like Stephanie, we think with patterns, that’s how we know that’s a brown bear and not a black bear, which living where you live, you need to pay attention to.

(11:05):
And then people smart, we think with other people, we’re their brainstormers, collaborators and networkers and self smart. And self smart people think deeply inside of themselves and crave quiet and peace. Privacy and space can often feel less smart because every question is something they want to really dig deep about, but they’re smart too. And at Summit Ministries with your program, Jeff, to watch the students sit up straighter.

(11:32):
To watch the young people who aren’t maybe as word and logic smart, but have dreams of changing the world through art and through music and through design and through frankly nature. It’s one of my favorite things to do. And to watch the kids who have always thought, “Oh, I’m the smart one.” The humble response of these bright young people to go, “Oh, I have been wrongly judging my creatives in my life as being less smart than I am.” They’re smart differently. It’s a powerful reality.

Dr. Jeff Myers (12:05):
Kathy, some of our audience would be Summit graduates, they’re in their 20s, early 30s, they’re working their way through their career. They’re trying to become more successful in what God’s given them to do in this season of life. If somebody is working their way through their career and they hear about the eight smarts and they realize, wow, logic smart is not my main thing, word smart is not my main thing, but it seems like the way our office is structured promotes that and doesn’t create space for the others. They kind of have to create space for themselves, right? And how do they do that? Are there any practical steps?

Dr. Kathy Koch (12:54):
Boy, that’s a great question because to stand up for yourself and to be able to promote not arrogantly or pridefully, but to be able to really say to a supervisor, “I can contribute here. I want you to know that this is something that I do.” One of my recommendations, Jeff, would be to amplify or strengthen or further awaken the people smart part of you.

I often recommend people read that chapter first in my book. I think it’s the most important smart today because it’s what allows us to read body language appropriately. It’s what allows us to know if somebody is approachable, if somebody is contemplative or angry, if somebody is curious or confused, it’s what allows us to know who is safe and on our side. It’s what allows us to convince and persuade without debate and arguing.

And so if I want to be promoted or if I want to be viewed as a healthier contributor at my workplace, I need to be able to use that ability to read my supervisors, to read my boss, to read my colleagues, to learn how to affirm and to learn how to correct without criticizing, and also to learn how to let my ideas be massaged by others, not always just my ideas influencing other people’s thought.

(14:09):
So that’s the first thing I would say is to really look at the people smart part of you and use that to your great advantage. And we believe at Celebrate Kids, identity controls, behavior, who I think I am is who I will be. I think that’s a biblical truth, our thought life shows up. And so know who you are. Define yourself as you’re somebody who’s got creative ideas.

So when your boss sends out a memo saying, “I’m looking forward to new ideas for our spring festival,” walk into that meeting really excited and really eager and maybe you rehearse and you practice even in front of a mirror the night before, communicating the idea that you have so that the first minute isn’t stumbling over yourself and people think, “Oh, she doesn’t know what she’s talking about, ” when in fact you do, right?

Dr. Jeff Myers (14:56):
Yeah. Yeah, that’s great. So focus on people smart. How do you become better at that? Because I’ve actually had some students say, “I don’t know how to read the room. I know that I should be able to, but I can’t pick up on emotions.” Is that something we can improve at?

Dr. Kathy Koch (15:16):
Absolutely. There’s two recommendations I usually make. One is to get a broader emotional vocabulary and men, frankly, don’t have as many emotional vocabulary words as women. And that’s not, I’m not demeaning men. I’m making a statement of fact. Men and women have the same emotions, but men don’t have as much of a vocabulary for emotion. Women can be mad, angry, upset, ticked off, jealous, and just done, and guys are mad. I’ve been told, you’re laughing.

I’ve been told that’s a safe male emotion, but that’s relevant here because if the only emotion that you feel safe with is mad, then you’re not going to be able to look at somebody and see, oh, he’s got revenge on his mind or he’s got disappointment in his heart. And the other thing that of course could be a whole episode, Jeff, is the idea that anger is never the first emotion.

(16:09):
Anger is always caused by something. And so it’s very important that we also learn in ourselves and in our others to look beyond what we might judge as the obvious and see what else might be going on there. And that’s, I can even, for the show notes, if you would like, I can send you a list of emotional vocabulary words from one of my books and you could post that if you would like, because that might be something that people have never thought about.

And then my other idea that I usually recommend, believe it or not, well, you can people watch. You can go to a store and just people watch. I’ve actually taught moms and dads to teach their children, squeeze my hand when you see somebody frustrated. Don’t yell out, “Oh, she’s frustrated, mommy.” Just if you think your kids have self-control, just squeeze my hand when you notice someone’s frustrated.

(16:56):
Squeeze my hand when you see somebody happy. Squeeze my hand when you see somebody who’s cooperating. And then the other way to do it is to watch TV with no volume. Turn the sound off. When you watch a movie or a TV show, even the news would be hysterical, but if you’re watching a TV show, can you tell who’s in charge of the conversation?

(17:19):
Can you tell who’s leading? Can you tell who is, again, frustrated, angry, content, joyful, looking out for others versus conceited? It’s very challenging, but I think it’s really, and then of course, if you’re doing that with other people, a spouse, a roommate, or a family, then at commercials or after it, you could talk about what you’ve discovered.

Dr. Jeff Myers (17:38):
Wow. Those are great. Very practical. I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. That’s something that, I’m the CEO of a company, but I feel frustrated sometimes at myself at being able to discern what’s really happening in a room. Because what’s really happening isn’t always just what I come into the room wanting to have happen. That’s right, the CEO mindset.

Dr. Kathy Koch (18:05):
Yeah, so true.

Dr. Jeff Myers (18:06):
Yeah. So this is really good. This is very practical, helpful. Thank you.

Dr. Kathy Koch (18:11):
You’re welcome. My joy.

Dr. Jeff Myers (18:14):
I’d love to dig into technology a little bit. Of course, we have 20 somethings who are Instagram fans, 30 and 40 somethings who are Facebook fans, teens who it’s all about Snap and TikTok. It seems like social media, almost no matter our age, is ruling our lives. And you’ve spent a lot of time on this. You had a bestselling book called Screens and Teens.

And I’d love for you to share some of your insights, but I’d really love, at the end of this, if we could talk to the parents who are absolutely fed up trying to help their kids in this. What do they do and where do they go? And maybe along the way, if any of us are thinking, “Oh yeah, I’m just way too on this way too much. Social media is too much of my life.” How do you get balance? So that’s a lot of questions wrapped into one, but that’s kind of where I want to go with this part of the conversation.

Dr. Kathy Koch (19:15):
No pressure or anything. Yeah. Technology’s here to stay. It’s not inherently good or evil. It’s how we use it, how much we use it, what our intent is, of course. We’re all over social media at Celebrate Kids. I’m personally on Facebook and Instagram, but do we care mostly about the people in the room? I think that’s the bottom line, key. We could just start there.

But I wrote the book, Jeff, because parents were saying to me, “Dr. Kathy, why are my younger kids so hard to raise? I would’ve thought by the second, third or fourth kid, I’d be good at this, but it just seems so hard. They’re complaining and they’re arguing and they’re never satisfied and I just can’t get them to communicate with me.” And lo and behold, my team and I saw that technology was of course the thing that had changed the culture.

(20:03):
And this is why I love Summit and worldview and the Summit semester and the two week and all the different webinar programs that you do because culture transforms. We can transform culture. Oh, praise God. If I didn’t believe that, why bother being on your podcast? But culture does influence who we are and how we behave.

And so technology, I don’t want technology to raise children. I want parents to raise children. And so looking at that, the Lord revealed to me the five lies, and this is, again, something I teach to your students that just gets them so energized. And why don’t I mention those and then Jeff, I’m going to throw it back to you and see what kind of a follow-up question you might have because we can go in so many directions.

(20:44):
But I believe that if we’re not careful, technology, social media, it predominantly teaches us that we can be the center of our own universe. The like factor and how many people share my posts. And I can auto correct my photos before I put them out there so that people only see the highlight reel. I can download a song and play it and binge it. I can watch any show I want.

Unlike when I was a kid, I had to watch what my dad wanted to watch. And I learned self-control, other centeredness, cooperation, taking turns. Oh my goodness. And of course, God is the center. We’re not to praise God. Lie number two, I deserve to be happy all the time.

Dr. Jeff Myers (21:23):
Right?

Dr. Kathy Koch (21:24):
Because I can watch only what I want to watch. I listen to only what I want to listen to. I can X out of any game I might lose. And the students just laugh at that because we’ve all done it, which makes us weak. We can’t handle losing a little solitaire game on our little device. So if it’s too hard, we start over. Oh my goodness. And I’m smiling when I say this because I’ve done it and I wrote the book.

But we deserve to be happy all the time. It’s lie number two, which is killing us, Jeff. It’s killing us. It’s one of the reasons depression and suicide is rampant because they’re trying to stay happy and it’s not a possibility this side of heaven. And so you end up with a depressed state and with anger and complaining and a lack of satisfaction.

(22:05):
Lie number three, I deserve choice. I must have choice, right? Because the dropdown menu effect and all the apps on the phone. And I’m not opposed to choice, nor are you, but we’re older and we know choice is a privilege. A lot of our young parents and young people think choice is their right. So again, they complain and they debate and they, no, no. Oh my gosh. It’s just so frustrating.

And then the lie number four is that I am my own authority, right? Because if I’m the center of my own universe and I have to be happy and I must have choice, then I have to be in charge of myself. I can’t let you lead me and I can’t let God lead me because then I don’t feel like I’m in the center or that I have choice or that I’ll be happy.

(22:49):
And so the authority lie is huge and I think we know it, and there are things we can do about it. And then lie number five is kind of related to that. It’s another authority lie. And it’s the idea that information is all I need so I don’t need teachers.

(23:09):
We live in this soundbite world. I mean podcasts, which you and I are doing right now, there’s Instagram and there’s Facebook and there’s the call across the bottom of the screen and there’s the alert on our phone and there’s an email blast and there’s blogs and chat rooms and there’s so much information. We’re testing way too much in the public schools. Way too much data is being celebrated and so we don’t have wisdom.

And again, Jeff, we won’t be satisfied. None of these lies will satisfy us because they’re all in opposition to God’s best for us. And that’s what compels all of us to celebrate kids to do what we do. I understand that these lies feel very real because technology is very real and social media is something that a lot of people enjoy. I enjoy it. I have to be very careful of it myself.

(23:57):
But I think that’s what I’m passionate about is people understanding that it’s a heart issue, Jeff. It changes our heart and that’s why we have to get away. Let me tell you one more thing. And parents will often say, “Well, Kathy, when do my kids need a phone?” Well, they don’t need a phone until they need a phone. Hello. If they’re babysitting and there’s no landline, then they need a phone, but they don’t need their own phone. Maybe there’s a sibling phone that they check out and share or whatever.

There’s so many things we could look at, but they don’t need, boy, I’m rambling, they don’t need their own device. They need, here’s what I would say to anybody listening who’s trying to decide about this kind of thing. It’s character that makes that decision. It’s not chronological age. It’s spiritual age.

(24:43):
What’s my character? Or am I going to allow social media to destroy me and to engulf me and to cause me to become self-centered, conceited, entitled, arrogant, alone, isolated, and all those kinds of things. So we’ve got to look at character and that’s how when your character shifts, I’ll allow you to perhaps borrow my phone. So what do you think? What do you think?

Dr. Jeff Myers (25:05):
No, I think that’s really helpful because I think a lot of people, when they start with technology, they immediately begin talking about how do you limit yourself, the safety issues, what do you post and not post? All super important. But take us into a conversation, say between a parent and a 12 year old, hormones are starting to develop. There’s that angst that they’re feeling. It’s going to be a tough conversation. There might be tears, but the parent knows this conversation needs to take place. Can you give us some guidance on what sorts of questions and topics should come up?

Dr. Kathy Koch (25:50):
Do they already have a phone or not?

Dr. Jeff Myers (25:54):
Let’s say they do. They do. Because I think that’s a bridge that it’s already been crossed for a lot of us.

Dr. Kathy Koch (26:01):
One of the things I really enjoy saying is it’s not your fault you’ve become like this. I would be your age. I would be like you if I was your age. So in other words, if you recognize that your child or grandchild is entitled, demanding, impatient, prideful, self-centered rather than other centered. These are the kinds of things that I think we see and we hear.

One of the freedoms is to say to a child, “It’s not my fault that I bought you the device. I really didn’t know what I was doing. It’s not your fault that you’ve become like this. I would be like you if I was your age and my brain was still being developed by the things that I do in my spare time, but we’re not going to continue down the path.” So I’m not a mean mom and you’re not a bad kid.

(26:49):
It is what it is. Give me back my phone. If you’ve paid for it, it’s your phone. In fact, when you give a child a device, you don’t say, “Here’s your phone.” You say, “I bought this and I’m going to allow you to use it for a season and we’ll see how it goes.” And that’s what, Jeff, I think we need to empower people because here’s the thing, you take away candy when they’ve eaten too much.

(27:13):
You take away crayons when they’ve colored for two hours and you want them to go run outside. You take away the ball that they’re bouncing in the living room when you’ve told them not to. I want to say there’s no difference in taking away a phone. Now, it’s different because of the addiction and because they think that they’re going to lose their entire social network and that becomes stressful. But I think we stand up and we say, here’s what the line I teach.

And by the way, Jeff, at Summit, when I teach your students and I say that it’s not your fault, I had a young lady at the South Carolina session this past summer stay until the very end of Q&A. She was the last student remaining, it was almost midnight. And she said, “I just want you to know you’re the first person I’ve been willing to listen to talk about technology because when you said you would be like me, I was willing to believe you.”

(28:01):
And I don’t say that arrogantly. Please understand that it’s not about me. It’s about connecting. It’s about us being vulnerable and realizing that our brain and our heart has been influenced even at our age. I’m more impatient than I used to be because of the click of the mouse and Amazon Prime and everything that’s so easy. And so of course they’re going to be because they’ve known nothing else that was a firmer foundation. And so I think we humble ourselves as the leaders and the adults and we say, and here’s the phrase, Jeff, I love you too much to allow this to continue.

(28:33):
I love you too much to allow you to become any more self-centered. I love you too much to argue with you. So I’m going to stop the debate. I’m going to say, already answered. If I ask you to do something or tell you to do something, I expect you to be obedient because you’re a good kid and I am your authority, although you would like to believe that that’s not the case. I mean, and parents have to earn the right to say that, but we do have to say it. And I love you too much to debate with you. It hurts your heart and my heart and our relationship and you matter to me, so we’re going to stop it.

Dr. Jeff Myers (29:06):
Right. Wow. Well, I’m processing this as somebody who is part of the Summit Ministries community, working with tens of thousands of young people, but I also think of it as a dad and how difficult those conversations are, but that really brings it home that I love you too much to let this continue.

Dr. Kathy Koch (29:26):
I appreciate that, Jeff. And let me say, and I hope you don’t mind my interrupting, we have to use the pronoun we. We have to. We are going to make some changes here, not, you need to use social media less. How many of us could get off of our devices while our kids are awake and do our banking and our social media scrolling and our investigation of ESPN.com after our children are in bed?

When our spouse is busy, then we allow ourselves to be busy on a device, but until then we choose to be present fully in conversation. So I think, use we instead of you would be another bit of advice related to that kind of earning the right to have the conversation.

Dr. Jeff Myers (30:11):
Talk a little bit about, Kathy, this sort of conversation with yourself, if you are an adult. And I’m specifically thinking of social media giving us the impression that the real world is elsewhere, that the real world is a creation of some sort that is outside of us.This is why if you’re standing in line at the grocery store now, people seldom look at other people or have a conversation with those who are around them, they’re on their device.

And I actually saw a movie once where that was the opening. It was a zombie movie. And the opening was all of these people standing in line on their devices. And the implication was very clear that we’re all acting like zombies. If zombies appeared, we wouldn’t even know who they are because we’re all zombies. We’re on these devices all of the time. So talk about that.

(31:12):
How to readjust our expectations so that we’re not just saying, okay, I’ve got to get off the device, but we actually, it’s our worldview, our hearts are being shaped in that conversation. Yeah.

Dr. Kathy Koch (31:25):
I would start, Jeff, by saying, how much do we want of the world? Do we understand that we were created for an abundant life on this side of heaven? Jesus took our sin upon himself that we would have an abundant life. It doesn’t start when you die an earthly death. It starts when you trust the Lord to be your all in all.

And he created us for more than this. He created us to be shaped and to be shapers. And it could happen through social media. I think people are influenced through podcasts and websites and good social media posts that I think you and I attempt to participate with, but it’s the eye contact and it’s hand to glove and it’s going out to eat with a friend and saying, “Tell me about what’s going on.” Sometimes when I’m with my friends, Jeff, I pretend I have not seen their social media scroll so that I pretend I don’t know.

(32:27):
Or I might say to a friend, “Hey, Andrea, I noticed your post about such and such. Fill me in.” But I don’t want to assume that I know everything that’s going on with somebody because I’m friends with them on social media. We all know that can be a highlight reel. And if you truly love and you’re truly invested in relationships, then you want to know more than that. What’s your heartache lately? What are your concerns?

So I think part of it, again, do we want more for ourselves? Which means that we would lean into people in the real way. Do we want more wisdom? We’re called to God and he’s wise. Do we want more wisdom? Do we think we know it all already? I’m writing another book right now. And part of me is like, who am I to think that there needs to be another book on this topic?

(33:16):
And I know that you have a new book. And I don’t know, you just struggle with that too. There’s been so many books written, but we have to steward what God’s taught us and given us that we do think has a unique contribution to the literature. How sad if we would miss out on those opportunities? And the only reason that I would write a book is because I’m aware of what’s going on in the culture and in the world and in the people who I know.

And I believe God’s created me for such a time as this. And that’s not arrogant. It’s the image of God. He created us to be well and do well and be difference makers. And we can get so lost in the minutia of social media and it feels big, but it’s not. It’s very, very small. I don’t know. I could talk forever. How would you have answered? How would you have answered your own question, Jeff, if I can put you on the spot?

Dr. Jeff Myers (34:15):
I think that the thing I challenge myself with, and you know that I recently went through a cancer journey. Well, when you face the possibility of death, anybody who’s faced the possibility of death will tell you the same thing. It changes the way you live every minute. It’s not just about eternity. It’s about the now. It’s turning the minutes into moments. Seeing every day as a gift.

And I think what I struggle with so often is realizing that the world that I’m actually in is the world God put me in to steward on purpose, for a purpose. Are the people around me better people because of the influence I have on them? Are the people who are serving me at a store or a restaurant blessed because of my presence?

(35:18):
Are they growing closer to God? I might not be an evangelist. I’m the server’s not getting down on their knees to pray a salvation prayer, but do they know that I’m praying for them and praying blessing for them? Do they know that they’re somehow, just through this interaction, they’re a little bit closer to God than they were before? And it really took, in my marriage with Stephanie, I think she’s so amazing at this, that it’s a constant learning process.

I’m being recalibrated whenever I’m with Stephanie because she is focused in on who is right there in front of us at that moment. And so people smart that she can pick up. We were at a Starbucks and she asked the girl behind the counter, “How are you?” And the girl said, “I’m fine.” And Stephanie said, she just looked at her and she said, “No, you’re not.”

(36:18):
And the tears just started flowing because she just saw that this girl was carrying some kind of a heavy burden. Well, I wouldn’t have noticed it. What I would’ve noticed is if she didn’t put enough cream in my iced coffee. So I guess rather than feeling shame about my lack of sensitivity in that, I’m just learning to be present in those moments. And I think having gone through a life defining experience has really helped me do that.

Dr. Kathy Koch (36:49):
That makes total sense. And I think one of the things that social media has done to a lot of people is decreased their vulnerability, transparency, authenticity. How many people will post a lyric of a song and we’re wondering if they’re suicidal or if they just like the song. They can’t say what’s really on their heart and how many people, again, fake it to make it with the highlight reel and they don’t believe anybody really cares.

They don’t have a lot of experience answering deep questions because unfortunately, some of their parents have spent way too much of their time scrolling with their eyes down and the device in their hand. And I don’t say that judgmentally. We can change. If somebody’s listening going, “Oh shoot, you guys changed this subject.” We can grow and mature and change and make some decisions because we put other people first.

(37:40):
I love that about your wife. I go out to dinner with somebody, I’m on a board of directors of somebody else’s ministry in addition to my own board, of course, and we’ll go out to dinner as a board and the chairman of the board always says, always, I’ve never been with David where he doesn’t say to the server, “We’re about to pray over our food. We would love to pray for you at the same time. Is there anything in particular that we could pray for you for?”

And Jeff, they don’t walk away going, “Oh, get away from me, Satan.” They’re like, “Oh, would you really?” And they often share and they’re stunned that somebody has noticed that they even have a name. It’s a very, very important thing that we do. Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (38:23):
Yeah. It’s so simple, but we do that all of the time. Cool. I think maybe once somebody said, “Nope, I’m good.” And of course the response was, “Gosh, I mean, we’re just going to pray a blessing on you because if things are good, that’s great.That’s a good place to be.” But virtually everybody else says, “Yes, pray for this or pray for that,” or, “I’m worried about my job,” or, “I’m worried about my child,” or whatever. But yeah, those are simple. Those are simple connections.

And it’s hard. I think it’s super hard being on airplanes. Everybody’s got a mask on. You can’t see any facial expressions. Everybody feels a little awkward. It’s like we know we’re supposed to be socially distanced. It’s six feet, but we’re actually three inches apart. So let’s pretend that there’s a distance of six feet between us. It’s very difficult, what we’re talking about. And I think I fail more than I succeed.

Dr. Kathy Koch (39:23):
Well, I appreciate your vulnerability. I think it is very hard and I think we’re tired. I think we’re overwhelmed. I think it’s very rare to find people who aren’t overwhelmed in some way, shape or form because of everything that’s going on. The depressed state, the level of anger. All of this has all of us concerned and so we can fall into ourselves. And I’m flying tomorrow and I don’t want anyone to feel guilt if there are days when we don’t reach out.

I mean, there are days when I don’t. There are days when I’m under deadline or like I’m an introvert and so I know I have to really protect myself. If I give too much to the people on the airplane, I’m not going to be available to the host that’s hired me. So I think again, to know who you are and to allow those natural rhythms to show up, we don’t want people to feel guilt and yet I want to challenge people to decide whether or not everybody else needs to change or we could change because we are capable of that.

Dr. Jeff Myers (40:27):
Yeah. Wow. You were right about needing another episode. We have so much more that we could talk about here. Could you just give a word of encouragement and advice to this rising generation as they make their way into the kind of world we’ve been describing in this episode?

Dr. Kathy Koch (40:52):
Know who you are. So I think back to, identity controls behavior, and whether it’s the eight smarts and other ways that we can decide and figure out to really seek the Lord, why did he create you the way that he did for such a time as this? And walk with integrity into that. Acknowledge your strengths without being prideful. Celebrate your victories and find a community that will do that for you.

Because we are created for community. We are created for connection and we need to know our strengths. We need to know our weaknesses because otherwise we hurt people and we don’t show up for things. I’m a fan of that as well, but we’ve got to know our strengths and our passions and our interests and our delights and our joys and what turns us on. And I just want to encourage people to find that.

(41:51):
And if you’re not sure, ask people who say that they love you. How would you describe me? Because that’s just so important, the unique creation that we are for this time. I don’t want that to be diminished by, again, the lack of connection or by the robbing of life that social media can do. Or even again, the fact that somebody thinks, “Well, I’m not the smart one and so I don’t need to show up for that.” I want people to know who they are and to believe that God did a good thing when he chose to make them the way that he did.

Dr. Jeff Myers (42:25):
Wow. That’s so good. And that goes against the grain of what I think we’re often taught is that don’t share that opinion. Your value is if you are consumed into the oneness of all things rather than have an individual soul or spirit. But we have been given individual souls and spirits with a desire then to be part of a larger community. But God created us for a purpose.

Dr. Kathy Koch (42:56):
Amen. Yeah. Amen.

Dr. Jeff Myers (42:57):
Yeah. Kathy, thanks so much for your time today. This has really been a delightful conversation.

Dr. Kathy Koch (43:02):
Jeff, thank you. I respect you. I’m so appreciative of all the work that you and your team do, and I’m honored to be here today. Thank you so much.

Dr. Jeff Myers (43:11):
Thanks again to my guest, Dr. Kathy Koch, for coming on the show today. You can find out more about Dr. Kathy and her work at celebratekids.com. That’s where you’ll find out information about the two books that we discussed on the show, Eight Great Smarts and Screens and Teens, which I highly recommend. You can also follow Dr. Kathy on Twitter @DrKathyKoch. That’s K-O-C-H.

We experience conflict in this world. It’s difficult. Sometimes our relationships with our kids can be difficult. Sometimes trying to figure out our own giftings and how we interact with technology can be difficult. But I just want you to know that we can have healthy, thriving relationships with other people around us, that God has put us in this world, in this time, in this moment on purpose. Have a great week.

(44:06):
Hey, everyone. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dr. Jeff Show. It’s a podcast from Summit Ministries, summit.org. Summit is a nonprofit ministry that exists to equip and support the rising generation to embrace God’s truth and champion a biblical worldview.

For nearly 60 years, Summit Ministries has been training students and those who work with students to develop, deepen, and defend a biblical worldview through life-changing conferences, thoughtful church, homeschool and Christian school curriculum books, free online resources and more. If you want to live out a biblical worldview in today’s world and you desire to instill a lifelong faith in the rising generation, visit summit.org/thedrjeffshow for more information.

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(45:10):
Be sure to share this show if you have enjoyed listening to it and leave a review, if you would, on the site where you download the show, that helps more people know about the Dr. Jeff Show, and I’ll look forward to seeing you next week.