The Dr. Jeff Show Ep. 39 – Michael McAfee

Episode 39: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

This episode of The Dr. Jeff Show features Michael McAfee, who previously directed community initiatives at the Museum of the Bible in Washington DC. The conversation explores several key themes around biblical engagement and faith development. McAfee explains how the Museum of the Bible was created to provide a neutral space where young people with questions can examine evidence for scripture’s reliability, presenting both arguments against and for biblical authority. It also houses one of the largest private collections of biblical artifacts.

The discussion addresses challenges in reaching millennials and Gen Z, who McAfee characterizes as rejecting authority broadly, not just religious authority. He advocates for engaging them by challenging their preconceptions about Christianity, encouraging them to examine scripture directly rather than relying on secondhand critiques.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:02):
Hey everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Dr. Jeff Show. This podcast is available on Apple, Google, Spotify, Edifi, Liftable, and wherever you get your podcasts. This program is the one where we may interview major thought leaders to demonstrate that worldview changes everything.

And today, my guest is the guy who used to direct community initiatives from one of my favorite places in the great city of Washington DC, the Museum of the Bible. He’s going to talk about what’s going on at the Museum of the Bible, what they have learned even during the pandemic about how people are engaging with scripture. We’re going to talk about how to help millennials and Gen Z understand the truth of God’s word.

And then we’re also going to dig in a little bit about my guest’s new program, which is called Inspire. Now, this is a way that people who are coming to Washington DC can engage with everything, including the monuments, the other museums and so forth, with people who will help them see it from a biblical worldview.

(01:05):
If you’re thinking about going or you’re planning a tour, you’re going to want to know more. And we’re going to welcome, right now, Michael McAfee to the Dr. Jeff Show. Michael McAfee, welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show.

Michael McAfee (01:17):
Thank you so much. It’s an honor to be here.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:21):
I’ve been looking forward to our conversation because I love your family. I love the museum of the Bible. It’s just an amazing thing. And we’ve got so much that we could talk about, about scripture and why it’s important to collect copies of the Bible, look at them and what you’ve learned from it and so many different things.

But also a book that you wrote, I read last year about how millennials experience faith. And the title of the book is It’s Not What You Think. So I can’t wait to get into a little bit of a discussion about that too. Curious to hear what kind of reaction you’ve gotten to the book. As we dive in, Michael, can you tell us a little about your upbringing and your experience with your Christian faith?

Michael McAfee (02:07):
Sure. Yeah, I would love to. So I was one of those babies that was in the church nine months before I was born and grew up in a Christian upbringing. As a matter of fact, I joke when I was in first grade, Ms. Georgia’s first grade class, I had my entire life figured out. I was saved and baptized in first grade. I met the cute redhead girl who I’m sure thought had cooties at the time, but would eventually marry her as my wife.

And then we had career day. We were supposed to dress up like the career you’re going to have one day. And every other boy in Ms. George’s first grade class had on a Michael Jordan jersey or a Troy Aitman jersey saying they were going to be a professional athlete. And I was the nerd in a tie holding a Bible with a suitcoat saying I was going to be a preacher.

(02:52):
So I’ve been chasing those three things, my faith, my wife, and my career in ministry ever since. And so yeah, so it wasn’t without its own struggles. I mean, I’ve certainly, like anyone, had struggles in faith and wrestled with kind of making this faith my own, some challenges in college, both on a personal level with my relationship with my father, as well as an intellectual level in whether or not the Bible is reliable. But wrestling through that, the Lord has been kind to use those trials to bring me closer to him rather than to drive me away from him.

Dr. Jeff Myers (03:29):
Well, that’s an amazing story. And you share that when you’ve been speaking at Summit Ministries. You share a little bit about your story with them. And I think they find that encouraging to see that as a child, you were so bold about what you believed. And it’s fun to see how God has brought all of those pieces together.

Now, the next part of the story that we want to tell does relate to your being married to Lauren. Lauren is the daughter of Steve and Jackie Green from the Hobby Lobby Company. And then as a family, everybody working together, you developed this incredible museum that seemed improbable to develop in Washington DC called the Museum of the Bible. And I know there are a lot of people who are watching or listening who’ve been fans of that. Many may have been there, but a lot of people are saying, “Oh yeah, I just need to remember that.”

(04:22):
“Next time I’m in Washington DC, I need to go there.” But I’m curious, just as you’ve been part of the family, and I know that it was Lauren’s granddad who began collecting Bibles and biblical artifacts, the physical evidence of the Bible and its reliability, could you kind of put the dots, connect the dots for us? Because I think a lot of people say, yes, that’s pretty cool to have ancient documents and yes, it’s pretty cool to have physical evidence, but how does that help you understand your faith and how does it come together for you?

Michael McAfee (05:00):
Yeah. Well, the Bible is so foundational. I mean, to everything we believe, it’s like saying oxygen is foundational to life or something. It’s like as a Christian, it’s easy to take for granted and not recognize how foundational the scriptures are. That’s where we get all the information about Jesus, is from those accounts. And then you have later accounts that are testifying to his life, to Josephus and others, but everything we have is contained in the pages of scripture.

And so I kind of alluded to it, but for myself, I know whenever I was in college and I had a professor that challenged the reliability of the scriptures, both, I had it challenged historically that there’s no way the history of the Bible is reliable, as well as challenging the very text itself, the books that were included in the Bible, it was political propaganda or that they have not been passed down with enough accuracy for us to know what the original intent was.

(05:56):
I mean, all these types of arguments that as a 19 year old, I hadn’t heard in youth group. Now I had good youth pastors that taught me apologetics. And so I remember I was one of the few that was blessed in that class to hear these arguments against the reliability of scripture and go, “I don’t know the answer to how to respond to these arguments, but I bet there is an answer.” I’ve seen enough arguments against the existence of God or other things that you get at Summit that you help to kind of equip next gen leaders with. I’ve seen enough of it to know there’s got to be an answer.

And so that was essentially, that’s my story, but that was essentially the heart I know behind Steve and the family really kind of leading into this Museum of the Bible thing is could we be a part of creating a place where young people that have questions like I had that maybe don’t have a relationship with someone at church where they feel comfortable turning to a church, I would want them to.

(06:57):
I would want to lead them there. But here’s a museum that’s neutral, that just presents the facts and evidence. And when you look at all of the evidence, not just the arguments against scripture, but the arguments against scripture and for scripture, I find it overwhelming. We have overwhelming reasons to have confidence that the words we have in the pages of our Bible are the same words that were written originally and that the historical reliability of the accounts, the history and the scripture, specifically chiefly, the resurrection is trustworthy. And so that’s my hope for anyone going through the museum, that that’s what they would experience.

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:40):
Yeah. Michael, I know that you had access to a lot of the documents, a lot of the antique Bibles, all of the cool things that are there, being exhibited before there was even a museum. And I’m curious, as you were looking at those documents, maybe in storage or being protected, carefully taken care of, did you ever imagine that these could be on public display in such an amazing way?

Michael McAfee (08:07):
Oh, I mean, yes and no. So yes, in the sense of that was the whole point. When the family bought the first item back in 2000, it was either end of 2009 or maybe beginning of 2010, the hope was to put them on display somewhere. And eventually that led to having one of the largest private collections. So then it was like, okay, we need to take the burden on of helping to bring about this place.

And I mean, it really, for years when I was working at Museum of the Bible, as an employee, I was part of basically the hype team. I was going around and traveling and getting as many people excited about the museum. And I remember walking in for the first time and feeling a little anxious like, “I’ve hyped this up a lot and it hasn’t existed yet. How is this going to go for me?”

(08:54):
And just being, I still get blown away every time I walk in there, every time I go through the Hebrew Bible, walk through and just live the Old Testament narrative. I mean, it’s world-class. It is everyone’s favorite museum once you go in it. Even if you’re, I have family that’s really interested in science.

They went to the Museum of Natural History and they went to Museum of the Bible and they were like, “This was incredible.This is the type of museum I could go back to again and again.” So yeah, anyone that hasn’t gone, you’ve got to go. It’s worth making a trip to DC just to check out Museum of the Bible. There’s plenty of other things once you get there, but MOTB makes it worth the trip.

Dr. Jeff Myers (09:34):
Make sure that’s at the center of any trip that you have there. And it’s close to everything else. So if you’re visiting Capitol Hill, you’re going to be close by. You can come over there and have a look. Michael, as you look at the different exhibits, do you have some that are favorites?

Michael McAfee (09:52):
Oh, yes. I’ve had people call me out on, I give tours regularly at the museum that I say on every single floor, I’m like, “Well, this is my favorite,” and then I qualify. I’ve got like a hundred favorites throughout the museum.

(10:08):
And so there’s three main floors that are pretty consistent. If you came today and if you came when we opened in 2017, they’d be virtually the same. And that is the impact of the Bible, how’s this book changed our world? That is a really great floor, I think, for someone who maybe isn’t even interested, necessarily, in scripture, which is a lot of millennials and Gen Z. They’re just kind of apathetic. So it sort of wets the curiosity appetite.

You have the history floor, which can really answer some of those skeptical questions, the ones I was alluding to of how did we get the scripture? What is the story? Why are there some books in the Protestant canon that are in the Catholic canon that aren’t included in the Protestant Bible, et cetera. And then there’s the narrative floor, what is the narrative? The Bible is one meta narrative, tells one story from Genesis to Revelation, and what is that story?

(11:02):
And so those three main floors are kind of the main exhibits that you go to and you go back again and again. And I mean, most people don’t realize that there are 87 museums in Washington DC. Museum of the Bible, in terms of public space, space you can actually walk, not back office or archives, it is the third largest. So it is a massive museum. If you were to do and read and see everything, it would take you nine eight hour days.

So I have not read everything at the museum and I’m there every month since it’s opened. And so you can’t get through it in an afternoon. I think you’re exactly right. I think it’s best if you have three days to use those three days and go take a bit of the museum and then go out and see something else. So anyway, your question of favorite exhibits, those are the favorite kind of permanent exhibits.

(11:54):
And then we constantly have temporary exhibits that are going up at Museum of the Bible. One of the only surviving 13th century copies of the Magna Carta is on display right now. And so if you can get up there by, I think it’s January that it goes out, get up there and see it because it’s amazing. So anyway, there’s a lot to do with you.

Dr. Jeff Myers (12:17):
Yeah, that’s remarkable. Well, everything comes to life in the way the exhibits are presented. Not only do you have these ancient documents, but you’ve got videos and graphs explaining everything. One of the exhibits that I was most surprised by, I loved everything. I loved the opportunity to walk through and actually sit in a synagogue and talk with somebody there who was acting as a priest.

I thought that was fascinating, but I was surprised at the exhibit where you’re sitting there looking real time at people who were reading the Bible using an app all over the world and what they’re searching for, what they’re looking for. And it was fascinating. It wasn’t just, the Bible has been influential in the past, but it is, there are millions of people at this very moment all over the world who are reading the Bible. And I remember something about the search terms.

(13:24):
What are the number one, number two, number three, search terms? Have you seen any changes in that as we’ve gone through the pandemic? I mean, are people turning to the Bible more and what kinds of answers are they looking for?

Michael McAfee (13:40):
Yes. So obviously there’s no way to track how people are opening a physical Bible and engaging with it, right? But the nice thing about apps is that you can. You have this data that you can see thousands of downloads on this show. You can see that data, that there are tens of thousands of people that are listening in and sharing and all those things. And so with the YouVersion Bible app, which is a partner of Museum of the Bible, they are sharing some of that data.

And I have seen, here’s what I’ve noticed is that when I would give tours to people in 2017, 18, 19, I would always go into that room and I would pull up the kind of view by country. And I would look at, for instance, what is the most popular verse that’s been shared or highlighted or whatever. And in America without fail, it was something like Philippians 4:13, “I can do all the things through Christ.” Jeremiah 29:11, “I know the plans I have for you, plans to prosper you and not to harm you.”

(14:45):
And then I’d say, “Okay, now let’s look, I’ve got friends that are missionaries in a number of different countries where the gospel is illegal.” And every time we’d go to one of those countries and look, it was always something like, “I have told you these things that in me you may have peace. In this world, you’ll have trouble, but take heart. I have overcome the world,” the words of Jesus.

I mean, you could just, just by the verses that they’re engaging with, you could see this contrast. Well, the reality is since the pandemic, this is my limited engagement, but I’ve seen those two almost, I guess the United States engagement bleed over more of turning to the Bible for hope, for strength, for stability, for kind of an anchor in the midst of the storm in a way that I didn’t see happening as much pre-pandemic.

(15:35):
And so I don’t know if that holds true for all data, but I can tell you too, personally, just as a pastor, that’s definitely been the case. There’s a lot of anxiousness, a lot of fear, and the Bible and Christians, the church has something to say to that for the world. So Bible now is a great room. You’ve got to check it out whenever you’re at Museum of the Bible. Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (15:58):
Yeah. I thought that was a breakthrough for me. And you’re right, it does. I hadn’t ever thought about the difference in what people from different countries experiencing different levels of persecution would be looking for, but there is kind of a common thread now. We want to know, is there hope in a troubled world? And you mentioned some documents from the 1300s, which is also a fascinating time of history.

There was a pandemic. There was, in fact, it was far worse than anything that we’ve experienced in the Black Death, a third to half of the people in the world died. And a lot of the art, a lot of the Bible, biblical music, all of those kinds of things that came out of that demonstrated that people in that time when they might have turned away from God, actually turned toward him. Do you think that there’s a possibility that that could happen here, that the world’s experience with COVID might actually draw people close to God?

Michael McAfee (17:07):
Man, I hope so. I think that’s the prayer, is that this would be Romans 8:28, another often highlighted Bible verse in America. God works all things together for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose. That is true when things are good and it’s all the more true when things are hard. And that’s when you need that reminder that God is ultimately working out all things, even the hardest things for his glory and our good.

And so man, I know personally, my prayer for our own hearts as well as our church and our community here is that God would use this to revive us, revive our hearts, revive us to a love of the gospel, a commitment to scripture and to the things of the Lord, to fervency and prayer. And so I certainly hope that Christians worldwide are responding to what we’re seeing in the pandemic in that way and recognizing that the wheels aren’t falling off the bus.

(18:08):
God’s not sort of in heaven kind of scratching his head going, “No, no, what are we going to do about all of this?” That he has sovereignly decreed that we would be in the world in this day when there is something as unprecedented in modern times as what we have right now, and that each one of us has been placed here by design to serve a purpose that will ultimately bring about God’s glory and the good of others and we receive joy, our joy, the third peace.

(18:38):
So that’s my hope and prayer for anyone that’s listening or just people I know, is that they would be leaning into that and asking, what is God doing? How is God trying to reorient our lives in such a way coming out of this pandemic that we don’t just go back to sort of business as usual, but we’re more committed than ever to the things of God?

Dr. Jeff Myers (18:58):
How would you say that experience differs by generation? Because I know you’ve written on this and I know you’ve been thinking a lot about it, about millennials and about Gen Z and about their experience with scripture, their experience with God. George Barna’s assessment was pretty dire that this is the don’t generation. They don’t know, they don’t believe and they don’t care. Can you talk us through a little bit about, how do you engage biblical discussions about biblical truth? How do you engage with those who are in this sort of disbelieving generation?

Michael McAfee (19:43):
Yeah, it’s a great question because you’re exactly right. You’re hitting on a lot of the problems that millennials and Gen Z have with the faith they have with the world. And so what I mean is this, is that it’s easy to look at millennials or generation Z and say they are neglecting the authority of the church. They are neglecting the church gathered and are refusing to sit under the leadership of Godly pastors and ministers that are trying to love them.

But the reality is they’re not just neglecting or denying the authority of the church. They’re neglecting authority, period, full stop. And so that creates a lot of challenges for church leaders that are trying to reach and disciple and evangelize millennials and Gen Z, but it’s not a problem specifically just with the church. Or again, take the Bible itself, right? Same thing that across the board and culture, it is a commonly understood truth that truth is relative, right?

(21:00):
That you can take from the Bible those parts that resonate with you and then parts that really don’t, you can sort of dismiss as archaic and what ends up happening is you build this Frankenstein God that is nothing of the God in the scriptures. You referenced Barna. This study haunts me. I think about it all the time that there’s any study, but I know Barna, roughly 75% of Americans would claim to be Christians.

And if you look at that 75%, half of those 75% do not believe that Jesus lived a sinless life. If you don’t believe in a Jesus that didn’t sin, you believe in a Jesus that can’t save you from sin. So I failed math in college, but 37.5, I’m pretty sure is half of 75, and that is larger than 25. So we have a larger lost demographic among the falsely converted than we do even of people that would identify as skeptics or atheists or of another religion.

(22:08):
And so the job of the church is to reach those that would call themselves Christians, that are already in some level engaged and being able to come alongside and teach them the doctrines of the faith in such a way that is compelling and resonates with them. And so what I usually start with in trying to engage with millennials or Gen Z is to almost kind of surprise them or shock them.

And so to make them see that their understanding of what Christianity is, what the Bible is, is hence the title of the book, it’s not what you think, right? It’s not. You might find that if you engage with the scripture, that you have this perception of what the Bible is that is actually going to be shattered because you haven’t actually engaged with the Bible. You heard Bill Maher make fun of the Bible on an HBO special, and that has formed your view of what the Bible is, and that is as deep as you’ve gone.

(23:06):
And we try and use in that book, sort of the millennial mindset, the Gen Z mindset of, “Don’t judge me before you get to know me,” right? Get to know me on my own terms to say, yeah, but you haven’t done that yourself with the Bible. So if you want that same grace afforded to you, if you’re going to be an intellectually honest and consistent person, you need to give the Bible a chance on its own.

So you care about diversity, man, you’re not going to find a more diverse book than the Bible. You care about anything, refugees, you care about women’s rights. You can go on and on and on. All these hot button issues, the Bible has something to say that’s going to surprise you and kind of offset you a bit. And so once you get there, then you can almost reengage them in a way that’s new and fresh and hopefully without the filters that have been sort of built in for them.

Dr. Jeff Myers (24:02):
Wow, that’s really powerful. I love that. I love that point of you don’t want people to judge you without really knowing you, but here we are in a culture that is probably more judgmental than any time that I remember in my lifetime. Tell us, at the museum of the Bible, do you sort of bring exhibits there and think through what the experience would be of a Gen Z or a millennial who’s coming to the museum? In other words, are the exhibits sort of designed to answer that question to say, “Here, take a new look at the Bible.”

Michael McAfee (24:43):
Yeah, so yes, I would say the museum, and again, I don’t work at the museum any longer, so don’t take any of my words as Museum of the Bible’s words, but from an outsider’s now perspective of the museum, I think it’s set up so that it can engage people where they are. And so if you’re a biblical scholar and you’re going to Museum of the Bible, I think that you will find an endless depth of knowledge that you can plunge into.

And if you’re like a group I had just recently, a couple weeks ago, if you’re coming in and you’ve kind of been familiar with Christianity, but you’ve never really read the Bible for yourself, it is set up where you can come in and familiarize yourself with the Bible’s big story in a way that is compelling. I mean, I call it discipleship Disneyland.

(25:37):
I mean, imagine if Disney created a museum of the Bible. This is the most technologically advanced museum in the country. So it’s not sort of old books in a musty room and it’s dark lit and everything. It is bright. There are screens everywhere and it’s a powerful statement, just the architecture of the building of the power and relevancy of God’s word today. It’s not an ancient sort of outdated book that doesn’t have something to say, but it is living and breathing in modern, right now. And so yeah, I definitely think that regardless of where you’re coming from on the spectrum, there is something for everyone to engage with there.

Dr. Jeff Myers (26:20):
Michael, is there a way to, for people who aren’t able to go to the museum right now to see about it online, I mean, you showed me something where you can actually do kind of a virtual tour. Can you talk a little bit about that? Because I don’t want people to just wait until they go to DC to look at the resources the Museum of the Bible has to offer them in their discipleship journey right now.

Michael McAfee (26:44):
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So if you go to museumthebible.org, it’s set up where you can have a virtual tour and if you’ve ever done like Google Maps or Google Earth and you’re kind of clicking through and the camera’s moving and you can kind of move through the portion of the museum so that you can see it before you get there. There’s nothing like getting there in person, but it’ll at least kind of wet your appetite to want to make that trip to be there yourself.

And so, beyond that, there’s several ways that you can sort of engage the Bible, Museum of the Bible online, both through, they have for members and others as well, events that are live streamed, that are different lectures and conversations that are fascinating. Their social media is constantly kind of putting out different artifacts of the day and different encouraging texts and stuff.

(27:42):
The organization that I’m a part of, Inspire, we are constantly, we are not a sort of neutral museum or an ecumenical museum. We are a Christian ministry that is trying to take the best of Museum of the Bible and the best of Washington DC and beyond really to say, “Hey, let’s look and celebrate and better understand, be historically informed about how the Bible has shaped our world today and how we can have confidence that it is reliable.” And so those are some of the ways that people can engage with them and the best follows on social media. If you do anything else, you should go check them out.

Dr. Jeff Myers (28:22):
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we’ll put in the show notes information that people can track. Tell us a little bit more about the Inspire Project, because this is something new that you’re working on and this is really, it’s out of the box and I want to hear a little bit more about it.

Michael McAfee (28:41):
Sure. Yeah. So the whole desire or impetus behind what we’ve created and Inspire is I have been impacted, shaped by short, immersive experiences that have had an altered trajectory of my life. And even if sometimes it was very big, sometimes it was very small, but kind of there’s something when you get outside of your normal context and into a context where you’re more attuned to what God is saying, you’re more apt to learn scripture.

I mean, I’m sure most if not all of you have been, but that’s what makes Summit so powerful is that you go and you are getting out of your normal context. And for a period of time, you are sitting in this experience that’s life shaping, life altering even 20 years later when you look back and see how it’s altered you. So the whole idea was, could we do something like that in DC?

(29:37):
Could we create an experience in DC based in Museum of the Bible, but also goes out to the rest of Washington that would be sort of a spiritual steroid shot that would just accelerate someone’s love, passion, understanding of the scripture and do it in such a way in one of the greatest cities where you’re going to have a blast. And so that’s what Inspire does primarily, is take groups to DC for as small as sort of a one day just Museum of the Bible, help you.

I mentioned nine, eight hour days. If you were to say, “Hey, we’ve only got four hours. Where do we go?” Well, we can help you kind of say, “Hey, here’s what you want to see.” Let’s come alongside of you, like Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch, and show you, do you know what you’re looking at here?

(30:25):
Here are the items you want to look at All the way to, if you want to have a five day full on, we want everything the museum has to offer and we want to go see the African American History Museum and the Holocaust Museum and do a monument tour and see Mount Vernon and the Capitol Bill, whatever it is. To do that and the unique offering that Inspire offers is to do it with a Christian lens, right? To do it in such a way that all of it is kind of looking to make you three things.
Biblically literate, we want you to walk away understanding how to read the Bible and excited to read the Bible.

Historically informed, there’s a lot of confusion about what is the history of our nation or the history of the Bible itself. And then third, spiritually engaged. That it wouldn’t just be a head knowledge that you’d receive, but it would make its way to your heart and change the way that you live and love others. So that’s what Inspire is. If you’re interested, inspire.org is the website and we’re happy to answer any questions or at least if you want to inquire about your group to see if it’s the right fit for you.

Dr. Jeff Myers (31:27):
Yeah. Yeah. So there are lots of kinds of groups that could engage with you. Maybe it’s a church group, a Christian school group, the homeschool co-op, a group of friends who’ve just been wanting to do a road trip. All of those should get in touch with you?

Michael McAfee (31:45):
That’s exactly right. We’ve got a trip next week for a church where a pastor is going to be there. And so you can think of, if you’ve been to Israel, I always say you can go to Israel. Even if you’ve never been to Israel, you can take a trip to Israel, walk around and be blown away by stuff you see. But if you have a guide with you, it makes it that much more impactful. They know where to go. They know the historical background. They know the places to go grab lunch, et cetera. So that’s what we provide.

So we’re coming alongside of this pastor, bringing his church, going to set him up for some great teaching moments. We’ve got a group, kind of an organization that is wanting just a monument tour of take us to the major monuments and give us the kind of faith history of this leader or this movement and how the scripture has impacted the thinking of, for instance, President Lincoln during the civil war and in general on the Bible and slavery.

(32:38):
How do you reconcile that there were slave owning defenders of slavery in the South that claimed that authority with biblical precedent? And so anyway, whatever the group size, we’ve done groups that are less than 10 all the way to groups that are 80. So we’re pretty elastic and can help serve whatever group is interested in as long as they’re okay and on board with this is going to be Bible saturated, gospel focused, Christian to the core.

Dr. Jeff Myers (33:13):
That’s so great. I’ve obviously been to DC a lot of times. I love going for runs around the mall. Love going to see the Lincoln Memorial, but I think there are a lot of people who just say, “Okay, this is my checklist. I want to see the Lincoln Memorial. I want to see the Martin Luther King Memorial. I want to see the Jefferson Memorial,” and so forth. But they don’t ever see how all of the pieces come together about God’s providential hand in history. So what you’re doing is meeting such a great need. I’m excited about it.

Michael McAfee (33:46):
We’re having a blast. Thank you.

Dr. Jeff Myers (33:49):
Yeah. Michael, thanks so much for being on the show today. It’s just been great to visit with you, catch up and hear about everything that’s going on.

Michael McAfee (33:55):
It’s an honor. Thanks for what you’re doing. I could not be a bigger fan of yours and summits and the vital. Again, that’s the type of experience that I needed prior to hearing some of those objections to the scripture when I was in college. So thank you for what you’re doing and excited to see whoever’s listening that wants to come to DC.

Dr. Jeff Myers (34:17):
A special thanks to my guest for today’s show, Michael McAfee. Now, he talked about a lot of different things. So you’re going to want to visit a couple of websites specifically. First of all, you want to visit museumofthebible.org. You can do a fly through of the museum and see what exhibits are there. You can see the permanent exhibits, what’s new. And when you plan your next trip to Washington DC, be sure to get tickets and go there and visit in person. It is amazing.

The other thing Michael talked about is inspire.org. If you are thinking about visiting Washington DC and taking a group of people with you, or you have a group, Christian school, homeschool, co-op, church, group of friends, whatever, you want to go to inspire.org and let them work with you to plan an experience that brings everything in Washington DC together from a biblical worldview focus.

(35:11):
And heaven knows we need that now, don’t we? If you want to follow the work of Michael McAfee, you can just follow him on Twitter @MichaelMcAfee. And that’s all I’ve got to say about all of this amazing work. But just please understand the word of God is central to everything. We need to be reading scripture, understanding it, knowing it, believing it, and defending it. Thanks for joining us this week. I’ll look forward to seeing you next week.

(35:41):
Hey, everyone. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dr. Jeff Show. It’s a podcast from Summit Ministries, summit.org. Summit is a nonprofit ministry that exists to equip and support the rising generation to embrace God’s truth and champion a biblical worldview.

For nearly 60 years, Summit Ministries has been training students and those who work with students to develop, deepen, and defend a biblical worldview through life-changing conferences, thoughtful church, homeschool, and Christian school, curriculum books, free online resources and more. If you want to live out a biblical worldview in today’s world and you desire to instill a lifelong faith in the rising generation, visit summit.org/thedrJeffshow for more information.

Listeners, I want you to know that our podcast is on Edifi, which is a truly powerful app that brings together thousands of the best Christian podcasts in one place for your listening enjoyment, you can download it at edifi.app.

(36:44):
Be sure to share this show if you have enjoyed listening to it and leave a review, if you would, on the site where you download the show that helps more people know about the Dr. Jeff Show, and I’ll look forward to seeing you next week.