We’re talking about the secret sauce of good parenting and a strong family: your marriage! Prioritizing your marriage may be the most important thing you focus on as you work to be a better parent.
Episode 16: Summary & Transcript
Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Episode Summary
The hosts of the Upside Down Parenting Podcast, Matt and Janel, discuss why a strong marriage is the secret to a strong family. They established that having Christ at the center is the ultimate foundation. Their conversation explores the difference between a consumer and a covenantal approach to marriage, emphasizing humility, service, and forgiveness. They share practical advice for strengthening a marriage, such as intentional dating, spending time together, using humor, praying, and making decisions jointly. The hosts also reflect on the profound impact a stable, Christ-centered marriage had on children.
Episode Transcript
Dr. Matt Jones (00:00):
Welcome to the Upside Down Parenting Podcast from Summit Ministries. It is an honor that myself and Janel Greig get to partner with Summit and proclaim the greatness of not only what it means to be a parent, but also to challenge us to think about what’s it look like to be a parent that’s doing things contrary to culture and contrary to society because we’re doing it from a biblical worldview. And honestly, that could be lonely.
And one thing that is lonely sometimes is keeping secrets. And this week’s title, our producer, who I like to call the bearded wonder, has called our podcast episode Why Marriage Matters in Parenting: The Secret to Strong Families. And I just want to know, Janel, how are you at keeping secrets?
Janel Greig (00:54):
Well, it depends on the secret, but I can do pretty good. But in this case, I don’t think we want to keep things a secret. I think in what we’re talking about today, we want to share it.
Dr. Matt Jones (01:06):
And I sometimes wonder if it is the secret and maybe several secrets, but I’m just curious if I were to pose that question to you, if you had to narrow it down to one thing, what would it be? What would be the secret to a strong family?
Janel Greig (01:26):
Yeah, that’s such a loaded question, but I do think ultimately the secret to a strong family is the Lord at the center because the Lord. And we’re going to talk more about marriage today and why that’s important at the core of it, but those are the biblical principle of marriage, the biblical principle of family at the center of that. And that doesn’t mean everything’s going to be perfect and easy, but he’s going to be at the center and keep us grounded. What would you say, what would you say is the number one thing? I don’t know. Can you top that?
Dr. Matt Jones (01:58):
Well, there’s a competitive spirit coming out, Janel. I love that. It’s interesting, I knew we were talking about this, and so I went ahead and asked somebody who was older and wiser than I am. And my parents, I love my parents. They’ve been married for 55 years, and I try to talk to my mom every Thursday night on my walk home because yeah, you just don’t know how much longer you have with your parents. And as they listen to this, they’re like, are they thinking he’s dying soon? No, I’m not doing that. But I love my mom. And I said, mom, you guys have been doing this for 55 years. What would you say is the secret to marriage? And without hesitation, she goes, Christ.
(02:43):
And she goes, Christ, my son, it’s Christ. And I said, are you sure? Matt! Anyway, and what’s been cool is we have seen that modeled not only in my parents, but also in you guys’ marriage in my wife and I’s marriage. And while as we’ve said before, it does not guarantee it gives us the greatest hope and the greatest direction. But yeah, it was kind of fun. And I may bring in more about my parents at some point.
Janel Greig (03:15):
That’d be great.
Dr. Matt Jones (03:16):
I was like, they’ve been married 55 years, let’s listen to them. And what’s cool is you figured it out at year 20, right? It’s 20 years of marriage for you guys?
Janel Greig (03:27):
Almost 20. Almost. Yeah. We’re getting ready, ready to move to year number 20. So we’re a little bit behind you. But yeah, we’re working on catching up.
Dr. Matt Jones (03:35):
And I think really Christ is key. Christ is the model. And I think I shared in a previous episode, as Paul talks about in Ephesians 5, husbands love your wives as Christ loves the church. And we really had to go and I had to go on a big journey to actually study what it meant for Christ to love the church. And so not only is Christ the foundation, it’s not only who he is, but the model of what he has done.
And so us being able to recognize that and imitate that by the power of the Holy Spirit, I think gives us great hope because he is not only the reason, but also the hope that we have. And have you listened to or read Tim Keller’s stuff on marriage? Have you done any work on looking into that? And I know that’s an off topic question, but I was just curious.
Janel Greig (04:28):
Yeah, absolutely. I actually read that book, and it’s been years, I feel like it’s been years. It was one of the initial books we would’ve read, I think together. But his material’s fantastic. But definitely a lot of principles there to take away.
Dr. Matt Jones (04:46):
And when I think about Christ being the core and the key to marriage, for me it takes it a little bit farther in terms of just saying, listen, for there to be success in the marriage, for there to be growth, we have to understand there’s a difference. And some of his language, I’m going to use his and then shift it a little bit, but he says, listen, there’s a huge difference between being a consumer in a relationship and being committed in a relationship.
(05:15):
When I think about that relationship, that dynamic I have seen where I have been a consumer, where it’s been all about me rather than being committed. And I actually like to use covenant language because that’s the type of relationship Christ has with us. He has a covenant relationship. And man, when we say those vows, there is no better person on earth because I’ve made that vow to you and Christ by his covenantal relationship saying, hey, I’m committed to you. Not only have I died on the cross as a sign and an example of that commitment, but also I want to bless and I want to invest in this relationship.
And so yes, Jesus is core, but what does that mean? And I think one of those areas is, hey, are you a consumer in the relationship or are you having a covenantal relationship? I was just curious about your thoughts on that.
Janel Greig (06:10):
Yeah, no, I think that’s fantastic. And that pulls in the servant’s heart, right? We’re to serve, and it’s all relationships really. You can core it down to the sin of pride, right? If I am putting myself first, if I’m being selfish or if I’m serving others. And I am not great at that all the time.
Dr. Matt Jones (06:29):
No.
Janel Greig (06:30):
And I would say that that posture of humility too, that you bring down a marriage, and my husband is fantastic with a humble posture of apology, and I’ve learned and gleaned that from him. I still have room to grow in that area. But I do think the ability, and just like with our kids too, to apologize to them when we’ve wronged them, and that’s practicing. It’s putting that forgiveness in the redemption into play. But I think even within a household, that biblical principle for our kids to see when there are disagreements between mom and dad, that they do come around it and humble themselves, apologize, reconcile, and move on, those are very vital principles to instill.
Dr. Matt Jones (07:13):
Yeah, I agree. And I just think about the number of times I’ve apologized to my wife because as our listeners have begun to pick up on, I’m not always the best with words, and that’s putting it mildly. But yeah, I find the words that I use are so key, not only in front of my kids, but also not only just saying, Hey, I’m sorry, but do you forgive me? I mean, that is just so key because now we are taking the time to say, alright, yes, I do forgive you. I am releasing you. Doesn’t mean we don’t have to rebuild trust.
(07:53):
That’s the thing. And when I say stuff, I shouldn’t say, I have to rebuild that trust, but do you forgive me? And it’s interesting, my wife didn’t grow up in a Christian home, and that might be some of you all out there. And having to ask for forgiveness, not that I said woman, ask forgiveness. I didn’t do that. But realizing that there are instances where even though I don’t want to ask forgiveness, I have to, for the good of the relationship.
That was a new concept for her, and it was really hard for her to develop and recognize. But man, whenever now she says those things, she means it because she understands the significance of what happened when you didn’t do that versus what can happen if you do. And it’s just amazing. So I am just curious, if a parent could do just one thing to strengthen their marriage, what do you think it should be?
Janel Greig (08:55):
I have like five or six, Matt.
Dr. Matt Jones (08:57):
Okay. Hey, you know what? Go for it. We’ll break it up. We’ll do two at a time. All right. But what would be a couple, then?
Janel Greig (09:04):
Yeah, there’s a couple things that I think are really important. I think dating one another, continuing to date, spend time together. And you alluded to that in a recent episode, talking about those intentional date nights and keeping that relationship an important, at the forefront to pour into that spend time together. Because in parenting, it gets tricky. You’re balancing, there’s balancing a lot of things and kids parenting the extracurricular activities.
And so to keep your relationship, and again, for the kids to see, but also so that you’re growing with each other so that you’re sharpening with each other and so that you’re pouring into one another and making that investment, I think that’s one of the most important things, is to make that time for each other and to carve that out. And it’s hard, like you’ve mentioned, it’s hard, especially when the kids are younger and there’s the financial component of, well, we have to get a babysitter, and then what are we going to do?
(10:01):
And that component seems to get easier maybe with time as the kiddos get older and they can just hang out together. But it’s important to carve that out. I think somebody told us when we first got married and the kids were little, it was just make sure you have couch time. Spend some time sitting next to each other on the couch. Let the kids see that and how important that relationship is, and that helps keep that bond. And that was just one of those things that we did. And we still do couch time, but oftentimes I fall asleep. So we do other things too.
Dr. Matt Jones (10:35):
So I really appreciate you bringing in the couch component and just, yeah, that’s so important because it reminds me of the importance of church. I remember my kids, we have three of them, and they would want to sit between Cat and I at church, and every once in a while we’d let it happen.
But not only did we make going to church a priority, but we made sitting together, even at church, hey, we are worshiping together. We love you kids. You guys can rotate who gets to sit on the other side of mom and dad. But even just something as simple as we’re going to sit together with the body of Christ at church was just so key. So I appreciate something as simple as sitting together. You said you had four or five others. What are a couple others?
Janel Greig (11:18):
Yeah, well, I think humor is an important one, and I think you would agree with that one.
Dr. Matt Jones (11:23):
Absolutely.
Janel Greig (11:24):
Truly, that’s one where that brings joy to life. To be able to humanly banter together and just enjoy each other is something, and again, that’s something that I think it’s important for the kids to see well as good for the relationship. I think praying together is important, and that’s an area that we can probably continue to grow in because it takes that intentionality of let’s stop and do this together rather than on our own. That’s an important one. Serving together, I think that’s one, again, that you’re modeling for the kids and does pour in.
I think to see each other in different settings too is very, very valuable. Who you are at home, who you are in this setting, who you are serving in this setting as the body of Christ. But those would be a handful of nuggets that I would throw out there of things that have worked for us that continue to work for us. But what about you, Matt? What about you and your wife?
Dr. Matt Jones (12:21):
Well, I agree with you on the humor. I’m curious, Janel. Who’s funnier, you or your husband?
Janel Greig (12:28):
Well, it depends if he’s pulling out the dad jokes or not.
Dr. Matt Jones (12:30):
Wait, does that make him funnier or not? No. Okay. Alright.
Janel Greig (12:37):
No, but we have a pretty good banter, I would say, when you can make each other truly laugh out loud over texts. Those are good sweet nuggets, and I’m thankful to the Lord for that. But I would imagine you would say that you were the funnier one in your marriage, right?
Dr. Matt Jones (12:56):
Well, actually in public I am. But at the house, my wife is actually funnier, so maybe it’s because I just draw more attention and am louder, but she’s actually the funnier one at the house. And man, she just, and maybe it’s because she’s making fun of me more often inside the house because there’s plenty of material there. But yeah. So yeah, I agree. It’s so important to laugh.
(13:25):
And listening to music together. If you can do that, find a commonality in song. The other thing too that we have found extremely important and extremely helpful is not only spending those times together, but making decisions together and seeing those decisions through. So, hey, here’s what we think. And we would listen to one another. We would listen to our kids and we would even get our kids’ opinions about things that they would like to do at the ages of 3, 4, 5. And now, unfortunately, they’re a little bit more elaborate and expensive at the ages of 16 to 22.
But we really not only valued making decisions together as a family, but also my wife and I making decisions together and saying, hey, Matt, not saying, Matt, you made this decision. You’re on your own. No, we make money decisions together. We make time decisions together. We make family value decisions together, and we write them through. And if you say, oh, that was a poor decision, or that was a great decision, that has been key because this marriage thing, it really is, how do we be one?
(14:39):
In light of who Christ is and what he’s called us to, how do we be one? And I think in our society, and even in some Christian circles, we’ve confused the thought that sex is the no. My wife and I pursue oneness in emotions. Not to say we respond to everything the same, but thinking, belief and in so many other areas. And intimacy is an expression of that oneness and can bring us close together, but it also, the enemy can use it to drive you apart too. And so just, yeah, time is so important, but making decisions together has been so vital and in many ways, many ways, a lot of fun.
So yeah, my wife and my wife and I, we just like spending time together. We were asked a recent Instagram thing for faculty at where I work at Colorado, Christian, and they go, where’s your favorite place to be? And my immediate answer was with my wife. I mean, that’s my favorite place to be, and it’s just such a blessing. What’s another thing you and your husband like to just do together that is apart from the kids?
Janel Greig (16:02):
Yeah. Well, board games are big in our house. And there’s a little bit of competition that occurs, as you can tell, but we enjoy doing that too. It’s just things that sharpen one another, playing a board game together, a two player board game, and just spending time with one another. And of course, that’s a setting too, where it opens up the opportunity for a further conversation. We love going for walks together, and one of our favorite places to be is on the coast, on the Oregon coast, and just going for walks together outside of talking, being in God’s creation. I’m similar to you, Matt, in that it’s, I just enjoy spending time with my husband. It’s that spousal engagement. And again, the kids can tell right when things are a little off or when they’re on. And again, life is real and life happens. And we have our off and our on seasons, and then we come back around. But for them to see that that stability is there and that we’re a unified front, that’s biblical principles in there. Right?
Dr. Matt Jones (17:02):
Yeah. Well, and I was just wondering if you had advice for someone who’s saying, man, I’m not pursuing that oneness. I’m not feeling that oneness. What advice would you have in terms of trying to bring that back together?
Janel Greig (17:18):
Yeah, I think prayer. I think prayer and God’s word. I think, what’s off? I think conversation, being open, being able to go to your spouse in dialogue and say, Hey, I’m experiencing this. Let’s talk it through. When we silo ourselves, oftentimes the enemy utilizes that for that divisiveness. But I just think conversation, keeping that conversation open, identifying where you’re at, keeping God at the center, praying together.
And I am thankful to say we haven’t been in a season where we’ve had to step into an outside resource, but I also know that there are some wonderful pastors that are well-equipped to help and come alongside marriage situations that need that outside input. And I would encourage people to do that, to utilize that, to utilize those that are around you, that care about you that can bring a godly focus.
Dr. Matt Jones (18:12):
That’s a great point, because we’re not designed to do marriage alone.
Janel Greig (18:15):
No.
Dr. Matt Jones (18:16):
We need friends. We need support. We need our church community. We may even need this summit podcasts to just give us ideas and encourage us to say, listen, there’s distance. And my wife and I have experienced distance over the years, and we really, that was one of the, that was especially early on in our marriage, and that was the catalyst for us to actually take this biblical worldview seriously in our marriage and apply it then onto parenting.
And I work with college students, Janel. I’ve been doing it for about 20 years, and it just breaks my heart. I work at a Christian college, and I think many people would be surprised at the number of kids that they’re either the last kid or the next last kid in the house or student, young adult. And they’ll come to me just in tears and they just say, hey, I’m the last kid and my parents and I are getting a divorce.
(19:09):
And as I ask them questions, and I mine into that a little bit, it’s a lot of times because the family has been built around the children rather than Christ and his word and the oneness that the husband and wife are supposed to have. And then once the kids are gone, there’s so little relationship and so little need for one another that I’m like, I might as well walk away. And I just want parents to know that you have no idea how much that affects your kids.
And so whenever I am struggling with whether or not to, okay, I’m not wanting to engage with Kat right now, she’s frustrating me. I go, wait a minute. And not only this about Christ has forgiven and pursues me, but also I have to think about somebody other than myself. And I’m not saying all those situations are selfish.
(20:03):
I recognize that. But I also have to think about the kids and having parents that have stuck together for 55 years to see them invest in the children, to see them invest in the grandchildren, to see them invest in their in-laws, I mean their in-laws. It is worth it to stick it out as best as you can because not only has Christ stuck it out with us, but also it just leaves such a wake that I’m not sure we always recognize. So that story’s probably going to come up a couple times as we continue, not if as we continue to do this, but that just weighs heavy on my heart, that there is redemption, there is ReSTOR restoration available, and I’m so grateful we’re able to talk about this.
Janel Greig (20:52):
And that’s the real life practical application of it. But also, like you referenced, is the story of redemption, right? The story of reality is incorporated in that, and redemption. Redemption is able to be there.
Dr. Matt Jones (21:07):
And that usually takes sacrifice on one party or both parties. And that’s the thing is I am so if hopefully people will continue to listen, they will pick up on how stubborn and opinionated I can be. And I have to say, you know what, Matt? You can be wrong. And your wife that God has blessed you with is incredibly insightful and wise and wants to pursue that. And you might be saying, well, my wife’s not, that. Maybe give her a chance, because they usually have better insight into a relationship than the male does.
Janel Greig (21:46):
It’s that humility, right? It’s the posture of humility. We’re called to in all relationships, but especially in marriage. Yeah.
Dr. Matt Jones (21:52):
Yeah. It’s fun. Can I share one more story about my mom?
Janel Greig (21:56):
Absolutely.
Dr. Matt Jones (21:56):
Is that okay? Just in terms of family and stuff.
Janel Greig (22:00):
From someone with that many years of marriage? Absolutely. We want to gain from that.
Dr. Matt Jones (22:04):
I want to brag on her. So I love that you get up early in the morning, you’re spending time with the Lord. That is so awesome. And my mom does the same thing. And I remember one morning we were on vacation. We’re grateful that we get to have the family come together once a year for almost every year. And I’m up early one morning and I see my mom out on our porch, on their porch in Tennessee, on her knees, on concrete, praying for the kids and the grandkids in the week that everybody has together. And it’s like, okay, Christ is worth it.
And I’m grateful that we have had that model. And for those of you who don’t have that model, continue to listen to Summit Ministries, find those people. You’re not designed to do marriage and life alone, but it’s worth it to live according to that biblical worldview and apply prayer and fight for your marriage. So man, I’ve really enjoyed talking about those things, and here’s some great ideas for you. From you, excuse me. Not for you, from you. I’m going to sit on the couch with my wife tonight. Yes!
Janel Greig (23:18):
Do it. Do it.
Dr. Matt Jones (23:19):
Yeah. Together. Together. We have a big couch.
Janel Greig (23:22):
Together. And don’t fall asleep like I sometimes do.
Dr. Matt Jones (23:27):
No promises there.
Janel Greig (23:29):
No, it’s been great. And it’s important to keep that perspective that a biblical marriage does help that biblical parenting, that’s design. And it is upside down to what culture tells us, what the world is telling us. And so thank you, Matt. Thank you for the thoughts today. Thank you for your time.
Listeners, parents, thank you for joining us today. We hope that you were able to take away a couple nuggets or maybe some encouragement. This is the season of parenting. Whatever season of parenting you’re in, to have a spouse that you love and a focus on the Lord is a beautiful thing. And maybe as Matt said, maybe you don’t, but you’re not alone and you’re not created to do it alone. So tap into some of the resources we have at Summit. Look in your local church, in your local community if you need some additional support.
And if our time with you today was great as it was for us, please subscribe and like the podcast, leave a review and join us for future ones. We look forward to continuing this journey with you guys. Matt, I look forward to continuing this with you in our next episode.
Dr. Matt Jones (24:36):
Ditto, Janel.
Janel Greig (24:38):
Ditto. But to everybody out there, just remember you’re not alone. Keep going. Stay faithful and keep pointing your kids to the truth. Thanks for joining us.