What should your student do after high school? College, gap year, trade school… the options can feel overwhelming—especially for Christian parents who want their kids to grow not just academically, but spiritually. In this two-part series of Upside-Down Parenting, we walk through how to think wisely about your teen’s next steps after high school. From evaluating Christian colleges to considering alternative paths, this conversation will help you guide your student with clarity, confidence, and faith.
Your student doesn’t “graduate” from discipleship after high school. This next season is about more than picking a school—it’s about forming identity, strengthening faith, and preparing for a life of purpose.
We also talk about the value of taking a step back before rushing into big decisions. Summit Gap Year is a 7-month Christian program designed to help students grow spiritually, socially, and personally before college or career. Through community, mentorship, study, and real-world experience, students gain clarity about who they are and what God is calling them to do.
Episode 39: Summary & Transcript
Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Episode Summary
This episode features a conversation between hosts Janel and Matt about how parents can guide their teenagers in navigating the crucial next steps after high school. They cover various options, including four-year colleges, community colleges, trade schools, and gap years. A significant portion of the discussion focuses on how to evaluate Christian colleges, with Matt providing specific advice on what to look for, such as the institution’s view of scripture, campus atmosphere, and faculty qualifications. He also shares red flags for parents to watch out for and stresses the importance of fostering independence and personal faith in young adult children, regardless of the path they chose.
Episode Transcript
Janel Greig (00:00):
Welcome to Upside Down Parenting, where we explore raising kids to thrive in God’s upside down kingdom. Today, we are talking about a personal issue that I’m currently experiencing, but it’s about helping your teen navigate those crucial next steps after high school, from evaluating Christian colleges and spotting red flags to balancing faith, academics, and personal growth.
We’re going to also highlight the Summit Gap Year, which is a seven-month program that gives students space to grow spiritually, socially, and personally before making big life decisions. Plus, we’re going to share practical advice to guide your teen with confidence and faith. Let’s dive in. Matt, welcome back. I’m excited to glean from you today.
Dr. Matt Jones (00:46):
Well, I hope there’s some gleaning, definitely some things to think about with my almost 30 years in higher ed Christian education experience. And of course, I have two kids in college right now. So hopefully we’ll give the audience some things to think about and consider when it comes to a very important decision for not only the student, but also the family. There’s family implications with this. So I’m excited to talk about this.
Janel Greig (01:15):
Absolutely.
Dr. Matt Jones (01:18):
So what have you heard in terms of options once your kid graduates from high school? Because sometimes we’re limited in our thinking there. What things have stood out to you? What have you found are viable options out there?
Janel Greig (01:30):
Yeah. I think initially, and we have a junior in our household, so we’re on the cusp. We’ve started talking about this. What do we need to be doing in a couple years? What’s God got for you? And I think originally as a parent, for me personally, it was, well, it’s college. But as you enter the season and you start to look at your kiddo, what I’ve experienced is, well, there are gap year options. There are a lot of different options for gap year. There’s tech school or trade school.
Dr. Matt Jones (01:57):
And I don’t know if you know this, but my dad was the president of a tech college.
Janel Greig (02:01):
Really? I didn’t know that.
Dr. Matt Jones (02:02):
We are huge fans of the trades. And I know I say that from working at a Christian liberal arts college, but the trades are an incredible option also.
Janel Greig (02:13):
Absolutely.
Dr. Matt Jones (02:14):
As you know, your kids, sometimes people look down on that and my dad was the president of one and it was an incredible opportunity for the students that he interacted with.
Janel Greig (02:24):
Yeah. And I think as a parent, I mean, we’re going to hit a lot of stuff today, but one of the things is you’re looking at cost and just a kiddo’s learning, well, maybe abilities isn’t the right word, but learning platform, what works for them. All of these things come into play. Public institution versus private, Christian school specifically.
And then even with, over the last few years, maybe 10 years or so, there’s been a lot with regards to quote unquote Christian by name only or red flags to look for. So those are some of the things as a parent that my husband and I and our daughter are thinking through as we’re entering this next season for options for her.
Dr. Matt Jones (03:03):
Yeah. And I think you’ve already hit on some important things that we’ll develop because yeah, my wife and I really ultimately wanted our child to make the decision, but we wanted to be a guiding force to help them think about things. And one of the things I like to point out in terms of the public institution is we do need believers at the public institutions.
Janel Greig (03:22):
Absolutely.
Dr. Matt Jones (03:23):
That’s how my wife came to Christ. She went to the University of Delaware and there was a believer who just loved on her and she came to Christ at a public university. So I don’t think that there is a, “this is the way,” but there are a lot of things to help us think about which ways to go. And so I’m really excited about this episode. And the other thing too, I just like to keep in the back of everybody’s mind.
Jesus did not start his ministry until he was 30 years old. Your child does not have to know what they want to do for the rest of their lives at the age of 18. Don’t put that pressure on them. Jesus didn’t start till he was 30. Moses didn’t start till he was 80. And so hopefully God won’t wait that long for your child to reveal what he wants for you to do. But just, wow, let’s take a breath and step back and think about this. Thanks for introducing this important topic, Janel.
Janel Greig (04:23):
Yeah. Can I ask you from your personal experience as a parent as well as in your role at the college from what you’ve seen and experienced, but how as a parent did you and Cat, and maybe might you give advice to parents, how do you evaluate what your child needs in the next season with regards to the different options that are available?
Dr. Matt Jones (04:43):
Well, I mean, that is really a good question. I would start out by saying the summer of my kid’s sophomore to junior year, we started saying, “All right, we want you to start thinking about college. These are the things you’re going to be responsible for. These are the things that we’re going to be responsible for when it comes to pay, when it comes to scholarship, when it comes to applying for scholarship, and when it comes to work.” My wife and I proactively, working while you’re at school, excuse me, my wife and I proactively had that conversation.
And so that was extremely important because our kids kind of knew, here’s what I’m looking at as I am being equipped to launch into this next phase of life. And so that was key. One thing we did is we have really strong convictions in terms of the importance of being on campus the first two years or at least one to give them the opportunity to be launched.
(05:48):
We have some strong convictions regarding that. So we had that conversation. And so we said, “All right, what do you think the Lord is leading you to do in terms of career? What do you think the Lord’s leading you to do and be a part of when it comes to the spiritual realm? Do you need this as a time of growth? Do you need this as a time of really putting your faith into action by faith into action in a different way by going to secular school? Do you think the trades are going to be more of an interest?”
(06:21):
So really sitting down and asking questions to give my wife and I guidance in terms of how we can be a resource. Because some kids, as we’ve worked at CCU for over almost 20 years now, some kids are self-directed and they’re like, “I’m going to go figure this out myself.” And others are more, “Well, we need to ask some more questions.” But just because the kid’s 18 doesn’t mean they’re ready for college. And I think that’s another piece to keep in mind when it comes to this. So do you have any follow-ups or clarifying questions on that, Janel?
Janel Greig (06:54):
Yeah. You spoke to, for your kids being the first two, when they launched to college, being the first two years, you guys have been very intentional about them being on campus. I’m curious because I’m a parent, I love my kids and I love our family unit, but I don’t want to stunt their growth either.
So for options and even financially sometimes for folks, for a kiddo living at home. Now I know you have thoughts on online college education versus in person too, but for a kiddo maybe going to a community college even and living at home because of financial, what advice would you give to those parents? Make sure maybe these are some things if you’re doing this version that your kid is also getting that social aspect, what would you advise them or things to think about?
Dr. Matt Jones (07:42):
Yeah, that’s great. And I really appreciate you bringing in community college because we forgot that in the initial list of options. And my dad was the director of a community college, local community college, and that was a big tension for us whenever we were going off to college because my parents said, “Listen, you guys could go essentially for free to this local community college.” And we all three boys chose going to a Christian college. We went to public high school and we found that we needed that break from some public education to get a Christian education to really firm up what we believe and why, to launch us in a different way.
(08:25):
But yeah, in terms of the community college, if you’re doing that and it is a great route and it is a great way to save money and save up, I still would encourage before they’re eventually out on their own without that buffer, at least the last two years being at a four-year institution where you’re living off campus because like we said in a former podcast, I would rather my students, my kids in particular, deal with things when I still have a level of influence where they haven’t left the house to where, yeah, let’s have some community college work.
But then encourage them, all right, be engaged in this, spend two months studying abroad, find other ways to where there is this developing of the ability to launch and you’re still having opportunities to train and navigate, oh, you’re picking up on this, can we have a conversation about some of the choices that are being made?
(09:30):
I think the other piece too is if you do have kids that stay at home, I think you need to start that process of incentivizing them not to want to stay at home after college. And we’ve told our kids, “Listen, if you’re going to be at home as a college student, you will be working because you’re not going to be sitting at the house.” And so essentially doing things that a normal adjusting adult should be doing to say, “I have some roles and responsibilities. You’re going to have some bills.” And so those are some things we think about when it comes to community college. Thank you for bringing that up. That just completely slipped my mind.
Janel Greig (10:10):
Yeah. If I can ask a follow-up question on your thoughts on something, Matt, and this is before we jump into, I want to get more specific on picking, how do you identify what things you’re looking for when you’re looking at a Christian college, for example. But on that note, what would be your thoughts on, I think as our kids are launching into that next season and when they’re post-high school, they are really, especially if they’re out of the house completely, that faith formation is becoming their own.
They’re really owning their own faith, but that does look different if they’re still in the household. So what tips from having kids that are of that age, if they were still in the house, might you think or might you give of make sure that you’re giving your young adults a platform or opportunity to make their faith their own and not still just piggyback on mom and dad’s rhythms and habits?
Dr. Matt Jones (11:04):
Yeah. Experientially, we’ve not had a ton of that because both of our kids left. Having said that, interacting with families in those situations is we have found that, hey, if you’re in our home, you will go to church, but whenever they turn 18, because we like to worship as a family, when you turn eight, if you’re still living here, you’ll go to church, but you can go to whatever church you want to. Now, obviously there may be a few parameters on that, but generally speaking, all right, we want to see that you’re going to church and that’s a requirement.
And then if you do additional, that’s incredible. It’s still going to matter in terms of what conversations we have at the house, but that one is key. Having a job is key too, if you haven’t had one, to develop that workforce. And I consider if you’re doing athletics at a college, that’s your job, because you are getting some scholarship many times for that. But requiring them to go, say, if you’re in our house, you’re going to go to church. If you’re in our house, you’re going to work. If you’re in our house, you’re going to pay some bills to build into.
Janel Greig (12:16):
That’s a good thought too. Yep.
Dr. Matt Jones (12:18):
Some particular responsibilities of what it means to become an adult. And I have some really interesting stories on that, but we’ll save those. But one quick one, it drives me crazy whenever a guy at a university goes out on a date with a girl and I know they don’t work. I said, “Where’d you get that money?”
And they go, “Well, my parents are funding this.” They don’t explicitly say that, but that’s essentially where the money comes from. And I go, “Listen, dude, you’re not ready to date.” If you’re not willing to work and then sacrifice some of that work to invest in a girl, it’s just, oh, parents, you are setting up your college student, your future adult student to fail. So anyway, that’s just a side note.
Janel Greig (13:00):
Well, and I love your, I mean, you have practical experience as a parent, but again, with your role at the university, you’ve seen so many students come through and families. So I think you have a lot to draw from. Are you good if we move into a little bit more focus on evaluating a Christian college and things to look for?
Dr. Matt Jones (13:22):
Yeah, let’s talk about that.
Janel Greig (13:23):
I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.
Dr. Matt Jones (13:25):
So if we’re looking into a Christian college, I do think there needs to be a practical component of, what majors are you wanting to look at, what minors? And if the school doesn’t have them, there are some schools that have a create your own program, but sometimes that takes you in some instances to other universities. So I try to say, “Hey, try to find a Christian university. If you’re going to go to a Christian university that have the majors and minors that you believe God’s calling you to do.” And the reality is this last stat I read, it’s like 80% of students change their major within their first year. And so we got to have some freedom with that.
Second of all, I really would check out the campus atmosphere. I would go on campus, and this is where probably I’m a little judgmental, Janel. I would see what the guys are wearing and the girls are wearing and what they’re doing out on the lawns, even in terms of, is there laughter, is there encouragement? Spikeball is a huge thing at our institution right now. Well, how do they compete?
And just not in a judgmental way, but just listening to the conversations and what’s going on there. If you can get ahold of the student handbook and they’re boring, they’re boring, but understand, what are those. But two things I really think are extremely important when evaluating the Christian colleges, what is their view of scripture?
(14:55):
That is huge. And in that umbrella of their view of scripture, are they honoring that view of scripture? Because there are Christian colleges out there that say one thing and have faculty and staff that do another. And that’s a big, big question to ask. So to help discern that, I would look at their faith statement and then I would see, I would ask for, what’s been your publications?
Sit in on a class, sit in on multiple classes, sit in on a class that you may not be interested in to see if they’re integrating faith and learning practically. And don’t, I’ll probably get in trouble for saying this, but don’t always go on the preview days. Go on the days where you’re showing up and I mean, you want to have a planned time with the admissions to make the most of it, but show up on a day when you can just visit a regular chapel.
(15:54):
And I’m not saying that Colorado Christian does this, but there are some institutions that I have been associated with that bring in their best chapel speaker or they take you to the best professor or on those preview days. And those are still fun and viable and important, but sometimes if you can do a follow-up, those things kind of help you capture whether or not, “Hey, are we just saying we’re Christian or not?” So can I share one more quick story?
Janel Greig (16:19):
Please do.
Dr. Matt Jones (16:20):
Yeah. I remember, whenever I was looking at colleges to go to school, and it was a particular school in the Southeast and it was a Christian college and they took me to the students’ dorm rooms and it was a college institution and there were posters up on the walls that made me very uncomfortable. And I was like, “Man, if we’re claiming to be Christian college and we’re allowing these to be hung up on our walls,” that was a real big question for me. So faith statement, view of scripture, I think are probably extremely, extremely important. And I can come back to that view of scripture here in a moment if you’d like.
Janel Greig (17:04):
Yeah, absolutely. I’m going to dig as deep as I can with you. With regards to the statement of faith now, I think statement of faith and standards of conduct, seeing what employees, what the teachers or the professors that are teaching your kids are required to sign in here too is important probably as a parent and I would want that. But what are your thoughts on students signing the statement of faith? I mean, obviously we have some open quote unquote Christian colleges. I mean, you have the more missional, you have the covenantal. What are your thoughts on that and experience with that?
Dr. Matt Jones (17:36):
Yeah, that’s a great question because different institutions require you to sign that you not only adhere to it, but that you are a Christian. And then there are others that do not make you sign and it is a Christian college, but we have both believers and non. Here’s the reality, Janel, that stands out to me is whether you have people sign or not, there are going to be both Christians and non-Christians there.
(18:04):
And so when I look at that, I go, “This is an opportunity for me to have a discussion with my child if they’re looking at a place that requires that signature. Hey, what do you think about that? Where are you at?” And so that for me is more important than where they go to college. I’m getting now insight and work, getting to work towards having a conversation.
“Hey, you’re interested in this Christian college. I’ve looked at this faith statement. Where are you at in that? Are you good with how,” especially if I’m engaged and interacting with my kids. So that for me is a primary. And the secondary is no matter where you go, no matter what the sign or non-sign is, you’re going to have both Christians and non there. And so that one for me is not as crucial in that discussion other than an integrity issue for my children.
(18:59):
Are you able to sign that? Because I have the past year, I had one, two, four students who just said, “Listen, I just signed it. I’m not a Christian, but my parents made me come here and I didn’t have a problem signing it.” And the cool thing is that by the grace of God, I was able to lead one of them to Christ. So one out of the four, 25% is not too bad, but you still, you go, no matter what, there is a missional component to no matter what Christian university you go to, and those are just things you have to wrestle with. That’s a really insightful question on your part, Janel, but that’s really neat.
Janel Greig (19:38):
Yeah. It’s interesting. One of the colleges my daughter is looking at is a Christian college by name, and I don’t have, really, too many concerns with them besides some of the stuff I’ve heard recently. And so one of the conversations between her and I, I said, “Well, what about this situation?” And we talked specifically about this school and it was, as a parent, it brought confidence to me.
But she said, “Mom, my faith foundation is strong. If I have a professor that’s saying this that goes against God’s word, I have the discernment. I’ve been equipped for that.” And so that’s one as a parent where I’m thankful for that. But I also know in real time, if you have personal experience, a professor that’s saying something that’s totally antithetical to what you ever have learned, it can be earth shattering even when you have that strong foundation.
(20:24):
I think as a parent, one of the things I think about is if I’m sending my kiddos to a public school, I know what I’m sending them into. But if I’m sending them to a Christian school, the concern is that it’s artificial, it’s not really Christian, it’s Christian by name only. So just awareness for parents on that.
Dr. Matt Jones (20:43):
Yeah. Can I capitalize on that for just a moment? Please do. Because you’re making a really good point that the student might hear things that are contrary to what they have been taught or believe. And I think that is something parents need to consider and the student is, are you going to go to a denominational institution or an interdenominational institution? Because let’s just pick on reform theology or Calvinism. Well, there are schools that really do dive in, build on, emphasize that theological stance. And if you really want your child to be told that view, or other schools that are more Armenian in nature, this is the case also.
And so that is something huge to take into consideration. Because if you’re at an interdenominational university, if they’re truly interdenominational, they should be teaching more than just the one view in certain areas. I mean, there are certain areas in terms of their faith statement where they’re supposed to hold fast and they should hold fast.
But that’s another thing that a lot of folks don’t take into consideration is whenever you’re in an interdenominational university, you should be hearing more than one side and you as the student or you as the parent who has a role in paying for this need to have that conversation. I personally love the interdenominational institution situation because that helped me grow in my faith a lot more.
Janel Greig (22:17):
Totally agree, Matt. Yep.
Dr. Matt Jones (22:19):
A lot more. However, I will admit that some students are not ready for that. Their faith is not firmed up in those things, and maybe that may not be the wisest course of action. So I really, it’s good. Janel, you’re really good at this.
Janel Greig (22:34):
Well, it’s very real. We’re walking through it in real time and evaluating. And I think it’s doctrinally, if you’re looking at a Christian college and that’s where you go back to, statement of faith, look at the statement of faith. But secondary, tertiary issues, I believe God didn’t provide clarity on those because we use those to sharpen. We use those to grow our knowledge and our love for him. So, maybe tagging onto this before we go on to the next question, red flags, what might be and some red flags that parents might see that they shouldn’t ignore when they’re looking at a specifically Christian institution for college.
Dr. Matt Jones (23:13):
Good. So, that’s good. And I appreciate that clarifier. I want to go back to the view of scripture. Whenever you look at their faith statement, some keywords when it comes to scripture are, are they using the word inerrancy? And inerrancy is essentially, scripture is without error in their original manuscripts. And that could be a different episode in another time, but they’re essentially working from the perspective that, man, what we have now is very, very, very, very reliable and trustworthy and without error in the original manuscripts.
Here’s where it gets a little wonky, is that there’s another word that some institutions use and it’s called infallible. And so if the word infallible is there, then if the word infallible is there, then you need to read further into their faith statement in terms of how they’ve defined that because not all institutions have defined infallible the same way.
(24:07):
If they’re using inerrancy and infallibility interchangeably, and then I think you’ll have great confidence that in most cases, they’re going to honor the scriptures. If you have infallibility, that idea is that, depending on how they’re defining it, there can be historical or scientific issues in scripture, but essentially elements of faith and practice are without error. And so you really need to dig deeper into the faith statement to discern that.
And at Colorado Christian, we’ve made very clear that infallibility and inheritancy are interchangeable terms, and I’m very grateful for that. However, there are other institutions who leave that a little bit unclear for several reasons. It might be their faculty, it might be the denomination, it might be to get as many students in as we can, but that’s a big one. How are they describing scripture? And sometimes, Janelle, the word inspired is not specific enough because some folks understand inspired as even parts of the Bible are inspired.
(25:23):
And that goes, “Well, what parts are and what parts aren’t?” I’m just saying that, man, know the language and if you need to ask the leadership what that means, do so because that can be central in terms of a red flag. Another one that is just kind of something to consider is, are you having declining enrollment, declining retention, and declining graduation rates?
(25:49):
That can be an indicator that there may be some difficulties on campus. Now, having said that, right now, there’s a huge study that’s been done to demonstrate there is a smaller pool of people that you can pull from to recruit into college. So that might be some of the declining enrollment, but I checked that. How does the school do with job placement? One of the people we’re going to talk to here soon works at Texas A&M and they just have an incredible, and I know it’s a secular institution, but how do they do with helping students with jobs?
(26:28):
Two more. There’s so many more I want to talk about. Yeah, this is great. But two more. Who teaches the majority of classes? Is it teaching assistants or is it what we call terminal degree professors? Do they have their PhDs? Do they have their TAs? How often do they have their teaching assistants teach? That’s usually not as big an issue at an undergraduate college, but sometimes it is.
And last but not least, please, please, please, please, don’t ever look at student to faculty ratio. Don’t. They’re taking in so many factors that those really aren’t always the most accurate numbers out there. What I would ask is, “All right, how many students do you average in gen ed classes?” Just be specific. And then how many students do you average in upper division classes? Because I mean, gen eds, they should be a little bit bigger even at a small Christian institution, but then when you’re getting into those major classes, that can give you some ideas in terms of really what the sizes are and how soon do you get into those major classes.
Janel Greig (27:39):
That’s great.
Dr. Matt Jones (27:39):
So those are a couple of red flags, but man, that view of scripture I think is pretty central.
Janel Greig (27:47):
Oh, I really appreciate the clarity that you provided on that. And I think that’s one in our culture where terms are being hijacked and there are different definitions of terms too, but sometimes terms are used interchangeably, but to be able to have our parents now know, and I know, now I appreciate that from you, I’m looking for that on a statement of faith when I’m looking at a college. So that’s fantastic.
Dr. Matt Jones (28:11):
Especially a Christian college, right? Yeah. Right. I mean, it’s just that language with view of scripture is so important and I’m really proud, really proud of the place that I’m at regarding their explanation and their statement of faith, but that can be so key.
Janel Greig (28:26):
Yeah, no, that’s great. Let’s do another one.
Dr. Matt Jones (28:30):
Let me ask you, Janel, at this point, what are a few things that you guys have been thinking about and asking about?
Janel Greig (28:36):
Yeah, great question. I think for our, and as we’re going through this with our first child, I look at our kids and they’re so different. Our oldest, she really has a brilliant mind. She’s smarter now than I will ever be in my lifetime, but she’s also very artistic. So it’s finding the giftings God has given her, equipped her with to use them for his glory. And what’s next for her? Is it a trade school? Is it a four-year institution? Is it a gap year?
So for her, I would say we’re still really all over the place, which feels a little late in the game, but we’ve really been struggling over it for the last year and prayerful about it. I look at my next, our middle and he wants to do military. He wants to go the military direction, which as a mama fears my heart a little bit, but it’s also, we’ll see what God has in store for him. And then our youngest, he wants to move to the woods or something. I don’t know.
Dr. Matt Jones (29:30):
Well, get him in a trade school then.
Janel Greig (29:33):
Exactly. And so maybe they’re all so different.
Dr. Matt Jones (29:37):
Well, and I just wanted to add onto the military piece because that’s something that my son is looking at and he’s interacted with several folks in his church that did that. And they really do recommend, man, do your four years.
Janel Greig (29:48):
Yes.
Dr. Matt Jones (29:49):
If you know you’re doing military, have the military pay for it, and then you go into whichever branch of the military is an officer, and that apparently is a huge advantage, at least from what my son has researched. So just a heads up there.
Janel Greig (30:09):
Yeah, no, that’s fantastic.
Dr. Matt Jones (30:11):
If you didn’t know that, it’s pretty cool.
Janel Greig (30:13):
Yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot of benefits to doing it that way. And I think that’s something to definitely keep in mind, especially for families where there is a big financial component to know that school can be paid for. There is something that comes with that, an expectation, but that is a great route and a great option for people.
Dr. Matt Jones (30:33):
Well, Janel, you have asked some excellent questions and they’re so good and we have so many left that we’d like to address that we’re going to pause here and end this episode and we will, not hopefully, we will pick up this conversation and continue to ask more about parents and their role in terms of guiding and helping the student discern. And we’re actually going to talk about this incredible opportunity that Summit we here at Summit offer called Summit Gap Year, and you don’t want to miss that.
So thank you for joining us for the Upside Down Parenting Podcast, and we’ll also offer a couple of upside down parenting approaches that I think have been important after 20 years of working at one institution and 30 years of working at multiple institutions to help us think about what’s it mean to be an upside down parent with your kid going off to college. So thank you for joining us. God bless. Janel, great questions today, and thanks for working with me on this.