Did Jesus really rise from the dead—and does it actually matter for how we raise our kids?
In this episode, Janel Greig and Matt Jones break down the “Minimal Facts” behind the resurrection—historical claims that even critical scholars accept—and explore why they point to something extraordinary. Then they bring it home, discussing how the resurrection changes everything about Christian parenting, from how we handle fear to how we teach truth in a skeptical world.
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Episode 38: Summary & Transcript
Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Episode Summary
This episode of Upside Down Parenting explores the critical importance of the resurrection of Jesus Christ for Christian faith and parenting. Hosts Janel and Matt emphasize that the resurrection is a historical event upon which Christianity entirely depends, as Paul clearly states in 1 Corinthians 15:14-19 that if Christ has not been raised, then Christian preaching and faith are without foundation and believers are still in their sins. The discussion covers four key minimal facts that even skeptical scholars widely accept: Jesus died by crucifixion, the tomb was empty, followers believed they saw the risen Jesus, and skeptics like Paul and James were converted.
The hosts also examine alternative explanations like the swoon theory and conspiracy theories, demonstrating why the resurrection remains the best explanation for the evidence. Janel and Matt provide practical resources for parents to discuss this foundational topic with children of all ages, from picture books for toddlers to more advanced materials for older kids, emphasizing that building confident faith through evidence strengthens both parents and children in navigating cultural challenges to Christian beliefs.
Episode Transcript
Janel Greig (00:00):
Well, welcome back to Upside Down Parenting, where we want to help you disciple your kids with a confident faith. Today, we’re talking about something that sits at the very center of the Christian faith, the resurrection of Jesus. The resurrection is a historical event, and according to Christianity, everything rises or falls on whether it really happened. So today we’re going to talk about why the resurrection matters so much, why the evidence is important, and some of the historical facts that even skeptical scholars widely agree on so that you as parents can enter into these conversations with your kids. Hi, Matt. Welcome back.
Dr. Matt Jones (00:36):
Thank you. Thank you, Janel, and thanks for leading the insights on the resurrection. I’m going to try to ask you quite a bit of questions today, but I was wondering if you had a couple of family Easter traditions that you guys do each year, because I know you’re big into apologetics, and of course, the resurrection is a key apologetic for Christianity. So what do you guys traditionally do?
Janel Greig (00:59):
It is. When the kids were little, I really started bringing in the focus for the evidence for the resurrection, wanting to equip our kids. So every year we really work through usually a supplemental resource as well as reading God’s word. But some of our Easter traditions, church, where we usually spend Easter with our family in Oregon. So we get to do church at the church usually I grew up at and the kids get to go. And that’s just a beautiful way to kick off the resurrection celebration.That’s pretty standard for us. But what about you guys? Do you have any exciting traditions or just normal things that you do?
Dr. Matt Jones (01:38):
Well, I mean, we did the Good Friday service and I honestly didn’t grow up doing a Good Friday service. And I have really gotten to the point where, again, we didn’t grow up doing that, but we started doing that as a family. And I just really, really appreciate that reminder of what Christ went through.
And then there was a time when our kids were younger where there was this Easter egg tradition where you opened an egg a day, 12 days leading up to, so it was a little carton of eggs, but each day was working towards the resurrection. And so there was something in each egg that we would talk about and we would rotate which kids got to open that. And that was a really, really neat tradition. And I actually had to ask my wife what ones she recalls. And whenever she said that, I said, “Oh, that’s right.” That’s cool.
(02:28):
We would open one egg each day and there would be wooden nails or there would be a little set of thorns or there would be a ripped veil. So it was really cool to celebrate that and have those 12 reminders leading up to Easter Sunday. So that was a big one. And of course we did, we hid Easter eggs. I know different people have different feelings on that, but after church, late at night, we would do that and talk about the significance of those. But here it comes. We still do it because my wife, she’s decided she still wants everybody to come at Easter and she has put money in eggs, sometimes up to $50 bills. And so the kids are like, even as college students, they come and do Easter egg hunts with us.
Janel Greig (03:25):
Well, I may show up this year.
Dr. Matt Jones (03:26):
That sounds good. There you go. It may not cover your flight, but it’s a lot of fun. That’s true. You mentioned in the opening that the resurrection is a historical event and it’s central to Christianity. Would you start us out by just sharing why the resurrection is so central to Christianity?
Janel Greig (03:44):
Yeah. I’m going to go ahead and read from 1 Corinthians, what Paul writes in 15 verses 14 through 19, because I think this is a scripture too, that as parents, no matter what the age of our kids, whether they’re the little littles or teenagers or even out of the house, this is scripture that’s paramount to the base of our religion to Christianity.
(04:09):
And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is without foundation and so is your faith. In addition, we are found to be false witnesses about God because we have testified about God that he raised up Christ, whom he did not raise up if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, Christ has not been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless, you are still in your sins. Therefore, those who have fallen asleep in Christ have also perished. If we have placed our hope in Christ for this life only, we should be pitied more than anyone.
Paul is so clear there making it clear that if Jesus didn’t rise from the dead, Christianity is false. He says our faith is empty, we’re to be pitied and we’re still in our sins. So one of the ways to frame this, step into with our kids, why does Easter matter? That’s a great question to sit down and enter into this conversation and look at this scripture then and see what Paul has to say about it. If Jesus roasts, then it changes everything.
Dr. Matt Jones (05:11):
Yeah, it absolutely does. And so with that, I am curious. So yes, it’s central, but why is it so important? What message is the resurrection telling us as believers and even non-believers? Why is this so important?
Janel Greig (05:30):
Well, if Jesus didn’t rise, our sins aren’t forgiven, right?
Dr. Matt Jones (05:34):
Good.
Janel Greig (05:34):
If Jesus didn’t rise, he was a false prophet. It matters for our faith to form that evidential and confident faith. And we can pass that on to our kids by working through this with them. Why does it matter? It matters because it’s what Christianity is based upon. Other worldviews, other religions are based on philosophies or morals, but Christianity is actually based on a historical event.
Dr. Matt Jones (06:00):
Great. And you mentioned Jesus being a prophet. And if you study the scriptures, Jesus predicts his death, burial and resurrection multiple times. And prophecy is not simply about foreshadowing or foretelling about future events, but it demonstrates he knew what was going to happen. And one of the things that I really love about the resurrection is that scripture’s very clear. Romans 10:9 says, “You’ve got to believe that God raised Christ from the dead.”
And by God raising Christ from the dead, it demonstrates that God was satisfied with Christ’s sacrifice there on the cross. Thus confirming, as you mentioned, our sins are forgiven, that Christ has done the work. And when Jesus says it is finished, he’s communicating the work’s been done. The sacrifice has been paid. You put your faith in my work and as a result, now you want to obey Christ. You want to live out his example.
(06:55):
And so yeah, it is so, so key. The other thing too that doesn’t always come up regarding the resurrection that I wanted to bring up is one thing that you read from 1 Corinthians 15 is the resurrection of our bodies. Sometimes we’re a little gnostic in our thinking that really only the immaterial about us matters, but by Christ being risen from the dead and we have the hope of our own resurrection, it communicates not only does the immaterial part of us, not only does the spiritual part of us matter, but also the physical bodies God cares about that were made very good at the beginning of creation. It’s just so important.
And so you mentioned there’s evidence that it is a historical event. So what are some of those evidences that you have found that, not only you’ve been able to communicate, but your kids have been able to grasp onto? And I was just curious, a follow-up there. At what ages did you kind of talk about those different pieces?
Janel Greig (07:58):
That’s great. Great question. I think, and just thinking about this from a parent perspective, this is something that grows our own faith as Christians and it should. Good point. But that’s a good point. But with our kids, it’s the same. We can look at the evidence with them, gather the facts and ask them what best explains what we are seeing. So we can walk through the facts that we know.
J. Warner Wallace, who’s one of our favorite speakers here at Summit, he’s written a number of books and his ministry and his platform is fantastic. But Cold Case Christianity is a book he’s written for adults, but he’s written a kid version, Cold Case Christianity for Kids. And it looks at the evidence for the resurrection. And it’s, kind of, kids ages 8 to 12. So Matt, I’m going to throw out one of my favorite things is resources.
(08:45):
So I’m going to throw out some different recommendations specifically surrounding this for our listeners. But the cold case Christianity for kids is a great resource to work through with your kids. Ages 8 to 12. However, with that caveat of as parents, sometimes it’s easier to just work through that with our kids and learn it with them. And it doesn’t dumb it down, but it makes it more understandable for even us as adults. And so he approaches the resurrection, the evidence for the resurrection as a detective.
And so working through this book, it really is looking at the evidence for the resurrection that we have to know that it is a historical event. And so it’s a great way to come along our kids and do that with them. And that’s how historians look at events in history anyway. They look at the event and they look at the evidence for the event and then determine what the explanation is in order to say, “Yes, this actually happened,” or “No, it didn’t.” Yeah, go ahead.
Dr. Matt Jones (09:46):
Well, I was just going to say, you bring up the historical evidence. And so what are some things that parents should be aware of? And again, either resources, also regarding what’s the historical evidence? What should be some of those components to emphasize?
Janel Greig (10:02):
Yeah. So when we’re looking at the evidence for anything, but especially the resurrection, we’re looking for explanations to the evidence we have that explains the facts, that fits the evidence, and that requires the fewest assumptions. And so when it comes to the resurrection, there are certain agreed upon facts that historians start with.
And Dr. Gary Habermas out of Liberty University is the person that came up with the minimal facts approach. And I love this approach because what he does is he takes minimal facts that he considers are, one, strongly supported by historical evidence and two, accepted by most scholars. And the neat thing is it’s not just Christian scholars, biblical scholars, it includes skeptical scholars. So when he’s looking at the minimal facts for the resurrection, he’s polling both from Christian and secular scholars that agree upon these certain facts.
Dr. Matt Jones (11:03):
That’s cool. And about how many are there and what are they?
Janel Greig (11:07):
Yeah. So Dr. Gary Habermas has 12 that he lays out. And as a parent, if you’re looking for a resource that digs a little bit deeper in this area, Gary Habermas and Mike Lacona have written a book called The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus. And it’s an adult book, but he goes through the process. It’s pretty thick too. It is. And it’s fantastic.
And just as a side note, Gary Habermas is probably the most well-read person and researched person on the resurrection of Jesus. He just released, I can’t think of what the, it’s a four book series on the resurrection of Jesus. And each book is about a thousand pages digging into the evidence. And I have a lovely friend that’s bought me the first three, so I’m looking forward to reading those. But a lot of great resources to dig and grow. So he’s got 12 minimal facts that he lays out in that book and he usually uses.
(12:00):
We’re going to do a quick flyover for our parents today and do four. I think there’s four. Thank you. Justin our producer just put in On the Resurrection is the title of the series of the four books that Gary Habermas has just released. I think three of them are out. The last one comes out, I think, this summer, so great resources, but we’re going to look at format just because I think it gives our parents a jumping off point of where to go.
(12:34):
Let’s see. The first one I want to look at is that Jesus died by crucifixion. Virtually every historian agrees on this. It’s not recorded only in the gospels, but also by non-Christian sources, which again, that’s what he’s pulling in, that these are agreed upon facts. Josephus, who was a well-known Jewish historian, Tacidus was a Roman senator and historian, and Talmud. The Talmud, the rabbanic Jewish text, is something that documents that Jesus died by crucifixion. A second one that we can look at that we know is accepted by the majority of scholars is, the tomb was empty.
(13:16):
Something happened to the body of Jesus. The location of the tomb where they laid Jesus was known. He was laid in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea. And I know you being a biblical scholar, Matt, you know about him. He was tested in all four gospels and actually a member of the Sanhedrin. Now, when we get into, we’re going to move to the explanation, some of the explanations for these minimal facts in a little bit, including a claim that the body was stolen. But even that claim points back to this fact that the admission assumes that the tomb was empty.
Dr. Matt Jones (13:56):
Well, you got two. What are the other two there, Janel?
Janel Greig (13:59):
The other two we’re going to pull in is that the followers and disciples believed that they saw the risen Jesus. And if you’ll humor me for a minute, I’d like to read another scripture because this is an early creed that Paul pulled in in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8.
(14:19):
And this is, again, as parents, this is something we can be reading with our kids and walking through God’s word. Now, creeds were a popular means to pass along important information in a friendly format that was easy to memorize. And most of us are familiar with the Nicene creed, the apostles creed, and there’s a history to those and why they were produced. Most of them were based on wanting to counter the heresy that was occurring, right?
Dr. Matt Jones (14:47):
Yep.
Janel Greig (14:47):
And so this is an early creed, but biblical historians believe it was written within even a few months of the crucifixion. So I’m going to read from that right now.
Dr. Matt Jones (15:00):
Go for it.
Janel Greig (15:02):
If I can find it here in my…
Dr. Matt Jones (15:04):
I’m just proud of you. I love hearing the turn of the pages. I can hear it in my headphones, and that is such a beautiful sound to me.
Janel Greig (15:10):
I have to do it. Yeah, that’s great. I have to do it. So Paul starts this by saying, “For I passed on to you as most important what I also received.” Now this is important because Paul wrote Corinthians to the people of Corinth, right? But he’s saying he received this.
And he says, “I received that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephus, then to the twelve, then he appeared to over 500 brothers at one time, most of whom remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one abnormally born, he also appeared to me.” And that last part is, of course, his add-on, it wasn’t a part of the creed.
(15:57):
But it’s speculated that he, when he went up to Jerusalem to visit Peter, and I think he writes about this in Galatians, that that was when he received this. But looking at that creed, and we can do this with our kids, we see in there that Paul is saying in this creed he received that Jesus appeared to Peter, to the twelve, to over 500 who he then also says many are still alive.
So they’re kind of saying, “Go check your sources. Go ask. These people are still alive,” to James and to Paul. So included in that creed, there’s three of the minimal facts, the death of Jesus, the empty tomb, and the post-resurrection appearances. And then the last minimal fact that I want to pull in for us today, Matt, is the conversion of skeptics like Paul and James, as well as the disciples. They were converted to, they were fearful before, but bold after. But Paul and James were both converted to be followers of Christ following the crucifixion.
Dr. Matt Jones (16:58):
Right. And we know that Paul and James, James is very clear, not a follower of Jesus during Jesus’ ministry. And obviously Paul was actually a persecutor of the church and in Acts and I, and Jesus says, “Hey, why are you persecuting me after his resurrection?” Right? Yes. And that’s huge.
And one of the things that I like to draw out is I hear people say that, “Hey, people would not die for a lie.” I actually think people die for lies all the time because we do have disciples that are martyred, Paul and Peter and James. But what I like to nuance that is that people don’t die for something they know is a lie. Absolutely. And I think that’s an important nuance there because like I said, people die for lies all the time because they don’t know the truth. These guys know the truth and they’re willing to die for it.
(17:53):
And that really sets up the problem of, all right, well then how do we explain these different theories as to if we’re so convinced, why are there different theories as to explaining away the resurrection? And so I know you’re going to address a couple of those, but why do you think people want to explain away the resurrection?
Janel Greig (18:15):
I think it’s usually people that are coming from a different worldview that have a different preconceived bias, truly different presuppositions. I think it also, and we’ll touch on this maybe a little bit, but you get through the evidence for the resurrection and the best explanation is that God resurrected Jesus. It’s miraculous. It’s a supernatural event. And so we have to put our faith in that. And for some people, that’s hard. But if you truly step back and objectively look at it, it’s like Frank Turek says, right? It takes more faith to be an atheist. If you look at the evidence, where does it point us?
Dr. Matt Jones (18:54):
Yeah. Well, and even though that there’s very, very, very strong evidence that Christ rose from the grave, that God raised Christ from the grave, there have been alternate explanations because if Christianity is true and Christianity hinges on the resurrection and you don’t want to believe in it, Christianity, then you’re going to need to come up with some explanation. So what are a couple of ones that you’ve looked at that stand out to you, Janel?
Janel Greig (19:21):
Great. Yeah. And I think, again, encouragement to the parent, to the parents listening, you can walk through these with your kids, look at the minimal facts and then take it to the other detective side. So what best explains what we’re seeing? What best explains these facts? Some of the alternative explanations include the swoon theory. Jesus didn’t really die. So some skeptics argue that Jesus may have been crucified, but he didn’t actually die. Instead, he lost consciousness. He swooned and merely appeared to be dead only later to be revived in the tomb. And then he made his way out of the tomb and presented himself to the disciples as the resurrected Messiah.
Well, there’s a couple problems with this. And when you’re working through it with the kids, you can say, “What do you think about that? What are some things, some challenges to this explanation?” One of the things my boys always loved was talking about the Roman soldiers because they appear so powerful, but this takes that to the next level. This isn’t a possible explanation because the Roman executioners were professionals.
(20:25):
This is what they did and they faced death if a prisoner survived. Jesus endured extreme trauma and you spoke to the Good Friday services and I think that I’d forgotten about that for some reason, but that has become one of my favorite traditions because the weight of what Jesus did for us is usually just so, and it should always be format for us. But in that service, it’s Jesus, he endured scourging, the crucifixion. There was that spear wound. So he endured so much trauma.
One of the, I was going to say cool, but one of the neat things that medical advances and research has taught us too is biologically and medically, the water that came out of Jesus’s side that we read about in scripture in John 19, I can’t remember what verse it is in there, but it talks about the water that came out of his side.
(21:24):
And that actually has been identified as the pericardial effusion, that effect. So when a fluid accumulates in the sack surrounding the heart, the clear fluid comes from the sack and it’s followed by the blood. And this is something that I think, again, comprehension and age appropriate with your kids, but you can point them to this evidence. And we have some science-minded kids that really, that can be a very enlightening thing to them.
(21:49):
There’s something scientifically medical that we know now that God wrote in his word for us. The other component of that, and we could go so deep in all these, but I do want to give a little flyover. Jesus appeared to over 500. We read that in the creed. Do you think those 500 people would have believed that somebody that endured the suffering would have conquered death? I don’t think he probably would have looked like that. And that’s something our kids can understand and comprehend.
Dr. Matt Jones (22:19):
That’s great. Well, and then Mark 15 talks about, Pilate is actually surprised that Jesus died already. And so as you pointed out so wisely, these guys didn’t screw up death. And the reason why I think Pilates is surprised is because sometimes they could spend days on the cross and Jesus doesn’t die prematurely, but he is clearly dead because of the evidence that we see. Another one out there is the conspiracy theory that the disciples stole the body. I think Matthew’s gospel does a great job dealing with that particular theory with the guards at the tomb. Yes. What do you think of the wrong tomb theory?
Janel Greig (23:01):
Oh, the wrong tomb theory. Again, go back to that the location of the tomb was public knowledge, right? And so if, to me, that’s easy to debunk that one. If the wrong tomb was the one that had gone to, wouldn’t the officials have wanted to point to the correct one to easily say, no, this is a mistake and prove that the resurrection didn’t occur.
Dr. Matt Jones (23:23):
Good. So it’s very clear, and we could go further into this and you can look at Cold Case for Christianity and On the Resurrection by Habermas and Licona, but it really is evidentially clear that the best explanation for the resurrection is shown not only in the evidence, but also the lives that are changed not only right after the resurrection, but really for 2000 years later.
And so Janel, can you summarize why this matters as parents to be able to communicate this to the children that God has blessed us with? And I would say we can start having this particular conversation. I remember us talking about this when the kids were two and three and four years old. I think this needs to be a clear discussion as soon as we can with our kids, but I was just curious why this is so important for parents to explain to the children.
Janel Greig (24:23):
Yeah. I think it builds a more confident faith. Our kids, I heard, you mean that you believe a dead man rose from the dead? Well, yeah, that’s what God’s word says. And then that’s something, if you have that biblical knowledge, you know that’s what God’s word says, but you take it to the next level of let’s actually look at the evidence that God has provided for us outside of the Bible. Go back to the minimal facts. That builds a more confident faith.
Yes, the resurrection means sin is paid for. Death is defeated. Our hope is anchored in a historical event, and that is of the utmost importance. Matt, you talked about doing this with your kids when they were two and starting to build this. And I think that’s something we have to do as parents. Something for parents with littles, with younger kids, Picture Book Apologetics has a fantastic series of supplemental books that you can read with your kids.
(25:16):
They have one called Possum in the Empty Tomb. And it looks at the evidence for resurrection. It’s for little kids. And it has a really cool practical application in, the back of the stone in front of the tomb would’ve had to have been so heavy to move away. You get to try and push something heavy with your kids. And again, you’re bringing in that practical application for them and making it real, pointing back to God’s word and what it says and what our faith, what Christianity is based upon.
Dr. Matt Jones (25:45):
That’s awesome. Those are great ideas. And I may dub you the resource queen, Janel. I love the resources you have dropped today for us. And so as we wrap up today, remember, Christianity is not built on wishful thinking. It’s actually built on evidence, a historical event that is supported by the evidence.
And while it takes faith to believe that Christ was risen from the dead because it is a miracle, the best explanation in light of the evidence, in light of what Janel has shared today, is that Jesus rose from the grave. And if the resurrection really happened, it does literally change everything. It confirms who Jesus claimed to be. It validates his teaching. It gives us real hope that sin and death do not have the final word, and we get to live in the hope in the new heavens and new earth of the death of death.
(26:38):
It is so exciting. So it matters deeply for how we parent, helping our kids understand that Christianity is grounded in real history and that their faith can stand up against honest questions and thoughtful challenges to what we believe and why. But if we look at the evidence and we investigate, it can give not only our children, but also us as parents who have confidence to navigate the culture that often assumes belief is just a matter of personal preference. So take the time to have the conversations as we near and celebrate the resurrection of our savior.
And if you found today’s conversation helpful, consider sharing it with another parent as you continue to disciple your children. As you continue to teach them things that the church should be reinforcing regarding the death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, and he empowers and he enables us to be great parents. So Janel, thank you for the insight and the wisdom today and your background and apologetics and bringing your expertise on that.
Janel Greig (27:43):
It’s a blessing. It’s one of my favorites.
Dr. Matt Jones (27:46):
You’re welcome. No, thank you. All right. God bless everybody. Thank you for joining us on the Upside Down Parenting Podcast.