The Dr. Jeff Show Ep. 99 – Alan Shlemon

Episode 99: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

In this episode of the Dr. Jeff Show podcast, host Dr. Jeff interviews Alan Shlemon from Stand to Reason, who grew up in a Middle Eastern family and specializes in teaching Christians how to engage with Muslims. Shlemon, whose parents fled Baghdad for the United States, draws on his personal background and extensive experience to explain that most Muslims are peaceful, hospitable people who are actually very open to discussing religious matters—unlike many Americans who shy away from spiritual conversations.

The main focus of the discussion centers on practical evangelism strategies, particularly Shlemon’s simple but effective approach of asking Muslims “Are you 100% certain you’re going to heaven?” which typically opens the door to sharing the gospel since Islamic theology teaches salvation through a balance of good and bad deeds rather than certainty.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:01):
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show podcast. We’re coming to you from the beautiful Mike S. Adams studio at the Summit Ministries headquarters, Manitou Springs, Colorado. Pike Peak is right there, covered with snow right now, and it’s a beautiful time of the year. This is going to be a really fun conversation.

My guest today is a representative of a group called Stand to Reason. They’re one of Summit Ministry’s faithful partners in producing our summer program. Alan Shlemon is his name, and he grew up in a family that had come from the Middle East. He speaks to our students on Islam. If you have Muslim friends and neighbors, or if you go places where you meet people who are Muslim, the next 30 minutes can change the course of your life, giving you tremendous confidence with just a few simple points about how to communicate your faith to people who are Muslims in a culturally appropriate way.

Just a word about the Dr. Jeff Show podcast. This show’s available on Apple, Google, Spotify, Liftable, Edifi, or wherever you get your podcasts. And that’s a reminder. If you would please review the show, if you give it a good review, that will be seen by a lot of people and more and more people will be able to get good news like what you’re about to hear. Alan Shlemon, welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show podcast.

Alan Shlemon (01:24):
Yeah, thanks for having me on, Dr. Jeff.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:26):
I’m really looking forward to our conversation. You’re one of the favorite instructors at Summit Ministries because you get to talk about something that our students are really curious about, which is, what is Islam all about and how do we relate to our Muslim friends and neighbors? Is it even possible to share the gospel with them in a time like this, and how do we actually go about doing that?

Alan Shlemon (01:48):
Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s been a pleasure to do that and students at Summit are always so receptive to it, so it’s a pleasure to do it.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:55):
Well, you’ve got a book on this topic that you wrote some time ago, but it’s new to our audience and that is on how to be an ambassador to Muslims as Christians. Talk about that idea really quickly about the idea of Christians being ambassadors. Where does that come from and what does that actually mean?

Alan Shlemon (02:16):
Yeah, so in 2 Corinthians 5:20, the Apostle Paul talks about how we are an ambassador for Jesus Christ as though God, we’re making his appeal through you. And so I think that passage is significant for us, especially as we think about Islam and Muslims, partly because number one, it talks about our identity, right? We’re an ambassador of Christ, which means we represent Jesus in everything that we do, and we say, and the second aspect of that passage is about kind of our mission, and it talks about proclaiming the message of reconciliation, which of course is the gospel.

And so if that’s our identity ambassadors for Christ, and that’s our mission to proclaim the message of reconciliation, it seems like, man, the way we should see Muslims and interact with them is to see ourselves as ambassadors for Christ. So we want to proclaim the message of reconciliation to Muslims as representatives of Christ.

(03:18):
I mean, that’s the main idea. I think the other thing I’d probably add is the fact that if you think of a political ambassador before that ambassador goes to a country, a foreign country to represent whatever country he’s from, oftentimes that ambassador will study the country he’s going to go to. So he’ll learn about the people, the demographics, the history, their foreign policy concerns. The reason is because before he goes to that country, he wants to know that, so he can draw upon that knowledge to more carefully craft his message when he gets to those people.

And I think as ambassadors for Christ to Muslims, we can do the same thing. We should also learn as much as we can about Islam. I mean, you don’t have to be a scholar, but do the best we can to kind of have a general idea of what do Muslims believe? What are their doctrines, what are their practices? So that we too can draw upon that knowledge to more carefully craft our message, which of course is God’s message, the message of reconciliation and the gospel itself.

Dr. Jeff Myers (04:22):
That’s so well put, Alan, I love the metaphor of being an ambassador. Not only is it biblical, but you think about that in a practical way. If you really want to communicate with someone, you go there. You actually go to them. You don’t just write long letters and expect them to write long letters back. You don’t have social media wars about this or that. You actually go there, you talk to them.

Alan Shlemon (04:46):
Sure.

Dr. Jeff Myers (04:47):
Well, let’s do a little bit of study briefly. I know a lot of people have learned about Islam, but we could use a refresher course. Can you give us a little bit of an idea beyond what people already understand, which is there’s some relationship between Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, but give us a little bit of the background and the history, and maybe we’ll even talk a little bit about what Muslims today are like. What do Muslims believe?

Alan Shlemon (05:17):
Yeah. Well, Islam definitely sees itself as kind of being one of the three monotheistic religions and in Abrahamic faith. So they definitely looked to Abraham as sort of the father as well, like Christianity does in a sense, and Judaism as well. And Abraham had Ishmael and Isaac as sons, and Isaac eventually would lead to the Jewish people. But Ishmael that the first son is what they would say is the origins of the Arab people, of which Mohamed claimed to be an Arab.

And so in the seventh century, Mohamed came around and started. I was born and raised in Mecca in Saudi Arabia, and kind of grew up in this sort of polytheistic Arab culture. Eventually came to believe in monotheism. And one day when he was sort of meditating in a cave, he claimed to have, well, he thought was a demon who was possessing him.

(06:31):
A spirit took a hold of him and told him to recite, to recite. And this term recite is actually literally the word Quran. And so he originally thought he was being possessed by a demon, but then later came to think, no, it’s probably an angel from God. And he believed it was the angel Gabriel. And so over a period of the next 22 years, this angel allegedly appeared to him and gave him the words to memorize. And so literally, this angel dictated the contents of the Quran over the next 22 years while he lived in both Mecca and Medina. And that became what Muslims claim is the Quran today.

So technically speaking, Muslims don’t believe that the Quran is like what we would say the Bible is, which is the inspired word of God. They would say it’s the literal words of Allah, it’s the words of Allah that had been dictated word for word to Muhammad. And then of course, he communicated to other people and they memorized it. And then after his death, they kind of put it down in writing, and then that’s kind of how his slump began.

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:35):
So Muhammad did not write down what he was receiving by way of revelation he told other people, and then other people wrote that down after he was gone.

Alan Shlemon (07:45):
That’s correct. That’s correct. In fact, many people say that Muhammad himself was illiterate. He couldn’t read or write, and they actually argue that that’s sort of an evidence that the Quran is from Allah and not from a mere man.

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:59):
Right? Yes. Okay. Okay. Alright. So today, if we’ve got Muslim friends and neighbors, tell us a little bit about what they likely believe. And I recognize that Muslims are probably like Christians, some are really faithful to their beliefs, some aren’t. Some it’s more cultural, some they actually take it more seriously. But can you give us a broad description of what’s probably believed by our Muslim friends and neighbors?

Alan Shlemon (08:32):
Yeah. Well, I would say, and these are just general numbers here, but probably man, 70% of the 1.5 billion Muslims that are on earth are probably just nominal, meaning in name only. They typically don’t read the Quran on a regular basis or study some of the other authoritative writings like the Hadith and the Sunna, which we could talk about if you want later on. And so they’re just sort of nominal belief.

They were probably born in a Muslim culture or born in a Muslim family and just sort of have by default adopted sort of the cultural elements of Islam and some of those elements, perhaps the most foundational element in Islamic theology would be the belief in the oneness of God. So what that would mean is that they believe there is only one God, but that this one God exists only as one person. So they vigorously reject the Trinitarian notion that there is one God who exists as Father Son, Holy Spirit.

(09:37):
That’s one of the most grievous sins. In fact, to believe that, say, Jesus is divine or the second person of the trinity, this is called the sin of shirk, but it’s a grievous sin. They would reject that, but at the core of Islamic theology, if you knew nothing else about it, to know that they believe that there is only one God, and this one God exists as one person. So they generally definitely believe that.

They believe that Allah, God has sent various, or not said, but commissioned various human beings to be prophets, to communicate God’s message. And of course, they believe Muhammad is one of those prophets. But interestingly, they also believe that many people who are talked about in scripture in the Bible are also prophets of Allah. So they would say that Moses and David, and interestingly even Jesus is a prophet of Allah. What that means again is they don’t believe that he’s divine. They just believe he’s a human being.

But they do believe that like Muhammad, Jesus was also given a divine revelation, which they call the gospel. So Jesus is merely a human being who’s commissioned to be a prophet. Just like we would say Moses was merely a human being who’s commissioned to be a prophet or less like Muslims would say Muhammad was merely human being who is commissioned to be a prophet. So they believe in God, they believe they have prophets and scriptures as well.

Dr. Jeff Myers (11:09):
So there would be familiarity with Jesus.

Alan Shlemon (11:12):
Yes.

Dr. Jeff Myers (11:12):
From Muslim friends and neighbors. There would be a respect for Jesus, even a belief in his virgin birth if they’ve studied the issue.

Alan Shlemon (11:22):
Yes. Yeah. Actually the Quran specifically, which the Quran’s, the Heist Authority, it teaches that Jesus was born of a virgin and that he’s sinless and that he was able to have miraculous powers like heal sick people and raise people from the dead. And they actually believed that Jesus was taken up to be in the presence of a law. He never died, but was taken up to be in the presence of a law. And in some versions of Islam, he’s the one also who is appointed to return at the end of time to kind of initiate the final days, and they think he’ll kill all the pigs and break all the crosses and kill the antichrist. So it’s significant what they believe about Jesus.

Dr. Jeff Myers (12:06):
Yeah, so interesting. I don’t want to divert too much from that because I think that’s the starting point for the next part of our discussion, but depending on where your Muslim friends and neighbors are from, they might be one of several different sects of Islam, maybe Sunni or Shia or the others that are much, much smaller. But can you briefly describe those differences and nationally, so people from Saudi Arabia would believe something different from someplace else?

Alan Shlemon (12:42):
Yeah, the two major divisions are Sunni Muslims and Shia or Shiite Muslims. So Sunni make up the majority of Muslims worldwide, probably maybe 80, 85% or so of Muslims are Sunni. And the remaining 15% or so are Shiite Sunni Muslims typically, well, since that’s the majority of them, I mean you could find them. And of course, Saudi Arabia and lots of Islamic countries, right? That’s the majority of them. It probably makes more sense to point out where you might find Shia or Shiite Muslims.

So Iran is primarily composed of Shia or Shiite Muslims. Lebanon has a lot of Shiite Muslims as well. Some parts of Azerbaijan, Iraq where my family, my parents were born in Baghdad, Iraq. That country is divided almost 50/50 into Sunni and Shia. And so yeah, those are the two major divisions. The main reason why they even divided was over kind of a question of who should be the successor to Muhammad.

(13:49):
So after Ham’s death, there was a little bit of a debate or a big debate, who should be the next head of Islam? Now, Sunni would say it should be someone who they vote for, someone’s elected. The Shiite say, no, no, no, no, you can’t just elect someone. Muhammad was divinely appointed by God. Whoever should succeed him should be a bloodline relative of his.

And so it turned out the first three successors to Muhammad Bakar, Umar, and Uthman were simply people who were elected, and they were not blood relatives, only the fourth one named Ali. He was one of the bloodline relatives. And so a lot of Sunni Muslims, I’m sorry, a lot of Shiite Muslims will reject those first three and only say the fourth one was a true successor. But that’s kind of where the division started back then.

Dr. Jeff Myers (14:40):
Okay, that’s a really helpful distinction. Well, let’s talk about, so we’ve got friends, maybe somebody who’s watching or listening goes to school with someone who is Muslim, certainly friends and neighbors, certainly people you meet in the marketplace and stores and restaurants and things like that, and maybe even family members. So let’s first of all talk about what a Christian attitude toward Muslims should be.

Alan Shlemon (15:14):
Well, I will just say this. I think sometimes our attitudes towards Muslims can be mistaken and wrong, and that mistaken or wrong attitude is to see Muslims as an enemy of ours. And I, that’s just part of some American sentiment as a result of, say, some of the terrorist acts that have occurred in the United States like September 11th and other things where people have been like, man, these acts were perpetrated by people who claim to be Muslim, therefore we’re at war with Islam, or we’re at war with Muslims.

And I get that maybe politically that’s kind of what’s happening in the big picture from a political standpoint. But I believe as believers, as followers of Jesus Christ, we should see the Muslim not as our enemy, but as a person who has been deceived, who desperately needs to hear the gospel.

(16:08):
And by the way, just so you know, I interact with Muslims a lot. I travel to the Middle East and teach in the Middle East to Arabs. I’ve even been in situations where I’ve got to teach Muslims who’ve attended schools in the Middle East.

And I’ll tell you of all the interactions I’ve ever had, both in the US and the Middle East, I’ve never had any confrontation or conflict with any Muslim. Typically, Muslims are very kind, respectful, and honorable people who care about being honorable in the way they engage you. When they’ve come to our homes, they’re always respectful. When I go to their homes, they always cook a big meal because they want to show that they’re being honorable to me.

So we shouldn’t see these people as enemies typically. I mean, I’m not saying no Muslims ever dangerous, but I’m just saying generally speaking, the vast majority of Muslims are very peaceful people, and we should see them as people who we could befriend and get in a relationship with and hopefully also present the gospel too.

Dr. Jeff Myers (17:09):
That’s really helpful. I think from the perspective of looking at international affairs, it would be easy to say, oh, okay, because these people are Muslim, we’ve got to see them as sort of on the other side. Whereas what you’re saying is really interesting that maybe 95% of people who are Muslim are just like you’re describing. They’re not, not radicals. They’re not trying to be at war. To be fair. There will be political differences possibly.

Alan Shlemon (17:46):
Sure, oh yeah, yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (17:46):
Yeah.

Alan Shlemon (17:48):
And religious differences for sure.

Dr. Jeff Myers (17:50):
Yes. Okay. Well, let’s talk about this for a minute. Let’s say you’ve got a friend or neighbor who’s Muslim, and the conversation sort of you realize is open to spiritual things. How would you begin to, as a believer, steer the conversation toward the gospel?

Alan Shlemon (18:07):
Yeah, that’s a great question. And I would say that, by the way, most Muslims generally are very open to talking about their faith and talking about religious matters. So to me, this is a great opportunity for Christians. You go up to your average American in the mall and try to start a conversation about religion, you’re going to get blown off. You do that with the average Muslim, and they’re very open to it. So that’s just a great opportunity. We have a huge open door to engaging this massive group of people who are very comfortable talking about religious matters.

But the way I typically, either myself or try to train others to do so is to go straight to Jesus and to the gospel, because remember, Muslims must believe in Jesus. Now, granted, they have a different view of who Jesus is, but they must believe in Jesus. And also, which I know I kind of mentioned this but didn’t go into a lot of detail, the Quran teaches that Jesus was given a divine revelation called the Gospel, the Inge, and many Muslims perceive that to be the gospels that are found in the New Testament.

So I would suggest, man, why don’t you just begin by trying to share the gospel with them? And one of the ways I love to do that is by asking a very simple question. And that question is this, are you a hundred percent certain you’re going to heaven?

(19:31):
Now, notice I didn’t say, are you confident you’re going to heaven? I asked, are you a hundred percent certain? And the reason I asked that is because according to Islamic theology, they don’t believe that anyone atone for their sins and wipe the slate clean. They believe that there’s a scale, a balance, and all their good and bad deeds are put on this scale. And at the end of their life, if their good deeds outweigh their bad deeds, they go to heaven. And if their bad deeds outweigh their good deeds, they go to hell.

So there’s no sense in which they know what that balance, that scale is going to show. So typically, in fact, I’ve never had any Muslim say otherwise. The Muslim will say, no, I don’t have a hundred percent certainty I’m going to heaven. And then there’s an obvious follow-up question, would you like to have a hundred percent certainty?

(20:20):
And at this point, the Muslim is either would say, sure, of course, who wouldn’t? Or they’re just curious to see, what are you going to say? They’ll say, sure, yeah. Can you, well, here’s your opportunity to talk about what Jesus has done for people who will put their trust in him. And I would typically try to find passages in the New Testament that might kind of unpack that, I’m sorry, from the gospels since they believe in the gospel.

And so notice as soon as they say, sure, I’m willing to hear how I can have a hundred percent certainty, well then you could explain to them the gospel. And so within 60 seconds of asking that question, are you a hundred percent certain you’re going to heaven? You could be in there talking about who the real Jesus is and what he claimed about the kingdom of God.

Dr. Jeff Myers (21:08):
Alan, what passages would you draw on? I am sort of imagining that we probably ought to, in the front of our Bible, have some of these passages just written down so that we can remember what they are and then refer people to them.

Alan Shlemon (21:27):
Yeah, I agree. So by the way, this sounds kind of funny, but I actually like one of the most famous passages in the Bible, John 3:16, and not just John 3:16, but a few verses after it, for God to love the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through him. And then verse 18, continuing, he who believes in him is not judged, but he who does not believe has been judged already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten son.

So I mean, I know it sounds like, whoa, wow, that sounds so cliche. But in reality, the reason why I love that passage is because first of all, it’s the words of Jesus, which they believe he’s a prophet. It’s from the gospel of John, which they believe because the Quran teaches, hey, the gospel is a true revelation from Allah. And it kind of unpacks the gospel in kind of a nutshell.

And for most Christians, most Christians know John 3:16. And then I would just say, then just add on to additional verses. So to me, man, when I have an opportunity, I’m just going to go straight for that, very succinct, very easy, and it’s from the right sort of location that most Muslims will be okay agreeing with.

Dr. Jeff Myers (22:50):
Yeah, that’s great. And we can remember that.

Alan Shlemon (22:52):
Yeah, and you can remember that exactly. Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (22:55):
Alan, there might be some conversation at that point about a couple of things, the nature of God and also possibly the nature of scriptural revelation. So many Muslims have told me, as you mentioned earlier, I really object to this depiction of Jesus as God that is an affront to Allah. So without thinking that you need to go into the conversation with a full throated biblical defense of the Trinity, what do you say in that situation?

Alan Shlemon (23:37):
Well, I typically just go to, well, are you asking, how would I try to explain the Trinity to them or just my response to them suggesting that Jesus can’t be the son of God?

Dr. Jeff Myers (23:53):
Well, I’m interested in both. Now that you’ve brought them.

Alan Shlemon (23:56):
Well, I’ll just say the way I typically will do it or to train people to do it, is I encourage them to kind of ask that question about their salvation, go to the gospel and then see what their response is from there. Now, if they’re resistant to the Trinity, I don’t try to argue the Trinity at this point. I’m only simply trying to get them to consider what Jesus has claimed in the gospel, because they have to accept that if they believe he’s a true prophet.

To me, the bigger objection that they bring up isn’t so much, oh, well, that’s the trinity, because I think some people do think some Muslims do believe, yeah, the Trinity is taught in the gospel or the New Testament. It’s more that they’ll say, well, but you’re telling me what Jesus said from the gospels in the New Testament, but those gospels are corrupted.

Dr. Jeff Myers (24:50):
Which was the second point that I wanted to get to. So this is great. Yeah.

Alan Shlemon (24:53):
Right, right. So they’ll say the Bible is corrupted, those gospels are corrupted. Yes, the Quran identifies them as a true revelation, but they’ve been corrupted. And so therefore, all those parts that you’re talking about where Jesus claims to be the son of God or they reject the crucifixion of Jesus, so where the Gospels talk about the crucifixion, say, well, that’s all the corrupted part. So to me, that’s the more common objection.

Yes, they’ll object to the Trinity, but I typically don’t want to spend too much time arguing about that unless they accept the source of authority in the New Testament. It’s pretty hard to argue for the Trinity. So I want to go back to the ultimate more foundational question, which is the question of authority. And this is, like I said, typically where they’re going to object anyways, the Bible’s corrupted.

(25:48):
And so the way I respond to that objection, which is actually you were mentioning that short book I did, the Ambassador’s Guide to Islam, a third of that whole book is intended to help you address this objection because it’s so central to your conversation with a Muslim. And in a nutshell, the way I address an objection is I point them to the Quran, which is their highest authority, and show them that the Quran teaches two things. Number one, the Quran teaches that no one can change the words of God.

And number two is the Quran teaches that the gospel is an example of the word of God. So if the Quran teaches these two things, no one can change the words of God, and the gospel is an example of the word of God. Then the conclusion logically follows, which is then the gospel is the unchanged word of God.

(26:44):
So what I’m doing is I’m leveraging their commitment to the Quran to make my point, which is that they can trust what the gospel says, what their highest authority is telling them they have to believe. So in that short booklet that you have, I unpack the passages in the Quran that make that point, and I encourage people to just write ’em down on a note taking app. Or maybe you have an app on your phone that has the Quran, and you can just highlight those verses, but I just have them available with me on my phone.

And that way, if a Muslim ever says, hey, well, you’re quoting to me what the New Testament says or the gospel say, but I think they’re corrupted, I’ll say, well, that’s interesting because it seems like your Quran says that you should trust this revelation. So that’s how I address that objection. Once they accept that authority, then they’re more open to considering what the gospels say.

And if you want to then respond to the objection about the Trinity, you could point to verses where Jesus will talk about, Hey, and the Father are one or other places where the Jews will pick up stones to try to kill Jesus because he’s baking himself equal with God. But you got to first establish that source of authority as legitimate in the mind of a Muslim before he could make that case.

Dr. Jeff Myers (28:02):
Right? Yes. And we mentioned John 3:16-18. John 1, if you just open John 1, you can see a lot in there about John’s claim that Jesus is not only the son of God, but he is himself God.

Alan Shlemon (28:20):
That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. That’s another powerful passage. Yeah, there’s a lot of options you have, but I encourage Christians like, hey, look, whatever you would normally do to share the gospel, just use that when you’re talking to a Muslim. It’s not that you have to do anything different, but typically if you can’t stay within the Gospels, it just reduces the number of objections you’ll get because they don’t like the Apostle Paul. Right? Right. So if you cite an epistle, they’ll be like, oh, that’s a harder case to make.

Dr. Jeff Myers (28:48):
Yeah. This is so helpful, Alan, because it brings it down to a level where if you just remember a couple of things, then you can have this conversation and know that people would be open to it. It’s sort of like life here in Manitou Springs. If you ask, do you ever think about spiritual things? You’re guaranteed a conversation.

Alan Shlemon (29:10):
Yes, you are. Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (29:12):
And you’ll never know what the person will say, but you are guaranteed a conversation.

Alan Shlemon (29:16):
Right.

Dr. Jeff Myers (29:16):
So that is really fun. Talk about hospitality for a moment. You did mention that earlier and how important that is. So your relationship with a Muslim sharing the gospel wouldn’t just be a conversation on the bus or while you’re at a store or something like that, that hospitality is going to play a bigger role in winning people to Christ.

Alan Shlemon (29:44):
That’s right. As I mentioned, my parents were born both in Baghdad, including my brother, but they fled to the States. I was born in the States, but as a result, when my dad worked for an engineering firm, he would often be the one sent to the Middle East to interact because he knew Arabic and so on and so forth.

Over the years, he developed relationships with a lot of Muslims there. They would come to the states to visit when they would come over to our home, they were very mindful of the fact they’re coming to a non-Muslim’s home, and they would always be, they’d always bring a gift. They would always be respectful of our traditions. Even when we prayed over the meal, they would be very honoring and respecting.

I think part of that comes from the fact that they typically, a lot of Muslims come from an honor shame culture where it’s more important to be honorable and not bring shame upon your family than it is to be right or to be wrong.

(30:44):
And so I think that plays a factor in our relationships with Muslims, especially when they know we’re Christian. As I said, when I’ve gone to the Middle East and I’ve been invited to a home of a Muslim, they are very mindful about being hospitable and not disrespecting me because I’m a guest.

And so I’ve always found that just to be so delightful and encouraging, and to me, if we can reciprocate that kind of hospitality and kindness, Muslims tend to become very faithful people to us in terms of their friendship and their trustworthiness, and that can rely upon them. In many ways, it’s very amazing, even though we vigorously disagree on theological matters.

And so I just think that in any situation, even if it’s not a Muslim, but in any situation where you can develop a relationship or a friendship or mutual respect, that’s so much more of a fertile ground by which you can then have conversations about spiritual matters and more important issues. So to the degree to which you can develop a relationship with somebody, a Muslim man, that’s so much better to be able to then have those conversations.

Dr. Jeff Myers (32:00):
Alan, I’m so grateful for this conversation. In 30 minutes, I think you’ve broken down a lot of the barriers that people might have sensed and want to bring up spiritual things, talking about the Lord with their Muslim friends and neighbors. So we want people to be able to pick up a copy of the booklet that you mentioned, The Ambassador’s Guide to Islam.

If you just write down in the front of your Bible, John one, John chapter three, verses 16 to 18, and then maybe look through the booklet to learn some of the points about the transmission of scripture through time and the other kinds of things that you bring up that demonstrate the veracity of the gospels, then this can be fun. You can make new friends, you can win people to the Lord and give people who’ve never been able to have any assurance of salvation and understanding that through Jesus, they can know that they will go to heaven when they die.

Alan Shlemon (33:04):
That’s right. That’s right. And what’s amazing about Jesus and their system of salvation, as I mentioned, there is a scale, good and bad deeds. Jesus addresses both sides of that scale. If you think about it, what does Jesus do? He first atones for our sin, which means all the bad deeds that a Muslim perceives he has, those can be atoned for. So all the weight of those bad sins is removed, but then Jesus doesn’t just tone for our sins. He imputes his righteousness to us. He gives us his righteousness.

So all of his good deeds, if you will, are then put on the other side of the scale that weighs the scale in our favor. So even if you take Jesus and apply it to the sort of system of salvation, man, Jesus is like the greatest news ever. He gets rid of all their bad deeds and gives you all of his good deeds. So it’s like the scales are balanced, are weighted in your favor. It’s amazing.

Dr. Jeff Myers (34:03):
Yeah, and that is the good news to the gospel in a nutshell. That’s right. Thanks so much for being on the show today.

Alan Shlemon (34:08):
Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on, Jeff.

Dr. Jeff Myers (34:11):
Thank you to my guest today, Alan Shlemon, for being on the Dr. Jeff Show podcast. You see what I mean? In 30 minutes, Alan was able to communicate in a friendly, helpful, culturally sensitive way how to communicate the gospel to our Muslim friends and neighbors. Did you know that Alan speaks for two sessions, two talks on Islam with the Summit Ministries students, every one of our two week Summit Ministries sessions?

So if you like this, then you can imagine how much fun it is to be here at Summit. Maybe you’re interested in coming. Maybe you have children or grandchildren or friends or neighbors who want to participate in Summit Ministries, one of our two week sessions this coming summer, go to summit.org. Now, here’s how to find out more about Alan and his ministry. The ministry is called Stand to Reason. Their website is so easy, str.org.

(35:09):
Do you remember Greg Koukl? He’s been on the show before. Tim Barnett? He’s been on the show before. Colleague of Alan. Great ministry. You want to find out what they do because they really help give you confidence in communicating the truth of a biblical worldview. I want to share a scripture passage with you real quick. Psalm 86 says, all the nations you have made will come and worship before you, Lord. They will bring glory to your name. What a privilege it is to be able to share the good news of Jesus and see the nations come to him. We’ll see you next week.

Hey everybody. The Dr. Jeff Show podcast is part of the Ministry of Summit Ministries. Now we’re in the Summit Ministries Studio, the Mike S. Adams studio here in Manitou Springs, Colorado. This studio was built by people like you, people who gave a few dollars, some who were able to give thousands of dollars, but they built a studio and millions of people are being reached through the work that takes place here.

(36:04):
Let me present you with another opportunity. How would you like to have that kind of a legacy in the life of a young person? This year, you could sponsor a young person to attend one of our Summit Ministry’s two week programs. Basically, it’s $33 an hour for training a young person, and they’ll receive about 60 hours of training. During those two weeks, you could sponsor an hour or two or three or maybe more, and maybe you’d want to sponsor a young person to attend.

I personally interact with young adults who’ve been through this program and whose lives have been completely changed, some of them in just one hour of teaching, changed the whole course of their lives. Would you help us get young adults trained who are going to be the leaders for the next generation?

Listeners, I want you to know that our podcast is on Edifi, which is a truly powerful app that brings together thousands of the best Christian podcasts in one place for your listening enjoyment. You can download it at edifi.app. Be sure to share the show if you have enjoyed listening to it and leave a review if you would, on the site where you download the show that helps more people know about the Dr. Jeff Show, and I’ll look forward to seeing you next week.