The Dr. Jeff Show Ep. 65 – Kelvin J. Cochran

Episode 65: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

In this episode, Dr. Jeff interviews Kelvin Cochran, the former Fire Chief for the City of Atlanta and U.S. Fire Administrator. Chief Cochran recounts his career, which he describes as a childhood calling from God, from his beginnings in Shreveport to his high-level appointments. The core of the conversation centers on his termination from the Atlanta Fire Department. This occurred after he wrote a book for his church’s men’s Bible study on his personal time, which included passages on the biblical definition of marriage.

A city council member complained, leading to Cochran’s suspension and eventual firing, despite an internal investigation exonerating him of any discrimination. Cochran details the subsequent four-year legal battle, his victory in federal court with the help of Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), and the spiritual lessons he learned about suffering and faith. He concludes by discussing his current role at ADF, where he works to support other believers and spearheads a national prayer initiative.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:02):
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show. This show’s available on Apple, Google, Spotify, Edifi, Liftable, and wherever you get your podcasts. Would you do me a favor? Would you go to the place where you get your podcasts and leave a positive review about the Dr. Jeff Show podcast? That’ll help it come to the attention of other people. And we will want to have it come to the attention of other people when you meet people like the guest I have today. Remember, we’re interviewing major thought leaders from many fields of influence to show how our worldview changes everything.

Our guest today worked as a firefighter for years and became the fire chief for the city of Atlanta. Later, he was presidentially appointed as the US Fire Administrator for the United States Fire Administration, the highest office in the profession. Today, we’re going to hear his story about simply sharing his beliefs regarding marriage led to his termination and what happened in the legal battle that followed.

(01:01):
It’s an amazing story with a tremendous conclusion about how we can be courageous in our own time. Please welcome Kelvin Cochran to the show. Chief Kelvin Cochran, welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show.

Kelvin Cochran (01:14):
Well, it’s a pleasure to be with you today, Dr. Jeff.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:18):
Chief Cochran, we met several years ago and I had the opportunity to hear your story, which is so phenomenal. And thank you, first of all, for your service as a first responder in one of our great American cities. I’m just really, really grateful for everything that you’ve done for the people of Atlanta and your testimony’s done for the rest of us.

Kelvin Cochran (01:42):
Well, thank you so much. It was a childhood calling and I really, really enjoyed every single day of it.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:49):
Tell us a little bit about that. Did you always know that you were going to be a firefighter?

Kelvin Cochran (01:54):
Well, Dr. Jeff, I’m one of those American kids that had an experience as a little boy. I was five years old on the front porch of a shotgun house in Shreveport, Louisiana. And Ms. Maddie, the lady who lived across the alley that we lived in, her house caught fire. And the Shreveport firefighters came that day. And as I stood on the front porch and watched with my three big brothers, my two little sisters and my mom, I was so overwhelmed by what those guys were doing.

I looked at them and said, “I want to be a fireman when I grow up.” And so I knew from that day that I wanted to be a firefighter. And it never left me. It just continued to grow and grow through the years. And by the grace of God, in 1981, I became a firefighter and spent 34 years in the fire and emergency services.

Dr. Jeff Myers (02:51):
Wow. And did you start in Louisiana?

Kelvin Cochran (02:54):
Yes. Shreveport, Louisiana is my hometown. And so my first, starting out as a firefighter, I was on the Shreveport Fire Department and served there faithfully for 27 years before. And of course, I was appointed fire chief in Shreveport, Louisiana and served at that capacity for about eight years. And then I was appointed fire chief in the city of Atlanta under one mayor’s administration, Mayor Shirley Franklin.

And then after two years of service under Mayor Franklin, I was appointed to the highest office in the fire service in America, the United States Fire Administration by President Barack Obama. And I was there for one year and Atlanta elected a new mayor and he recruited me to come back to serve as fire chief of the City of Atlanta.

Dr. Jeff Myers (03:53):
For those who aren’t that familiar with what first responders do every day, it’s just an incredible story. First of all, I can only imagine how much of a dream come true it was to actually serve in the department that you saw help your neighbor when you were a little boy. I feel like we know what firefighters do, what EMTs do, but when you’re in a leadership role, what does that involve?

Kelvin Cochran (04:24):
Well, in the leadership capacity, our responsibility is to make sure that the firefighters and EMTs have everything that they need to respond when citizens call 911. In public safety, there’s of course the law enforcement side and there’s the fire and rescue side. And many fire departments both have a responsibility over the fire and rescue side. And of course, every emergency that is not a law enforcement emergency, Dr. Jeff, is an emergency that our fire department actually responds to.

And so not only just fighting fires, but responding to heart attacks and car accidents, high rise rescue and window washers are trapped on the outside of a high rise building. The firefighters respond to get them down and hazardous materials responses like train derailments and all those sorts of emergencies, firefighters are equipped to respond to those types of emergencies.

Dr. Jeff Myers (05:30):
It’s incredible because just the examples that you listed, I think every one of those is so complicated with so many pitfalls and so much danger potential to the public, but also to the first responders, it sounds like it’s a super stressful job.

Kelvin Cochran (05:58):
Well, the thing is, it’s not stressful to the men and women who have a calling on their life to do it. And those who have a calling on their life to do it are the ones that we seek to recruit and to retain for a full career. Then after we find the best, it’s a responsibility that we keep the best. And so you have to have, from a leadership perspective, programs, services, and benefits that meet the needs of your firefighters so that they enjoy coming to work every day and that they want to work through retirement years.

But when you’re having the right people in the fire stations is a big part of the leadership of the fire service. And since we serve diverse communities, we seek to find citizens, members of the community who represent the community so that the community as a whole knows that there’s someone in a fire station somewhere in their city that understands their needs and that can represent their views when someone calls 911.

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:03):
Chief, how would you know if somebody’s watching or listening and they’re hearing, okay, this is a calling, how would I know if I had that calling? What are some of the things you look for?

Kelvin Cochran (07:17):
Well, there’s something on the inside of a person that have a deep and abiding, relentless conviction to want to help people. That’s the first place. And certainly there are many careers that offer an opportunity to people who have a deep and abiding conviction to want to help people.

But as it relates to the fire service, that conviction goes to the depth that you’re even willing to lay your life on the line to do that. And you want to do it and you’re willing to do it even for strangers, even for people you’ve never met before, and you’re willing to do it under the most challenging and daring circumstances.

And that’s what really provides the framework of the personality and character of a person who can be a good firefighter. Obviously there’s a lot of, I left out one of the most critical pieces. Ultimately, you discover that that drive and determination, that calling comes from God.

Dr. Jeff Myers (08:26):
So it’s a sacred calling. It’s a spiritual calling, not just a calling to experience, adventure, and hope that people are helped along the way, but it’s actually a deep sense of the value of each person.

Kelvin Cochran (08:44):
Absolutely. It’s a core conviction that a person has that’s related to spirituality. Of course, from the Christian perspective, when we discover our relationship with Jesus Christ and the more we grow in our relationship with Jesus Christ, the more real the calling in the profession becomes, and you know you’re doing it as a public expression of your faith.

Dr. Jeff Myers (09:12):
Wow. And now at this point in your career, after you had served in a distinguished capacity in the Shreveport Fire Service, then served the president as an appointee in the United States Fire Service, then you became the fire chief for the city of Atlanta. Tell us about how that happened and it’s going to set up sort of the next part of our interview.

Kelvin Cochran (09:42):
So I was thriving in Shreveport, Louisiana as its fire chief. I was in my eighth year and I received a call from the city of Atlanta under the administration of the Honorable Shirley Franklin. They indicated to me that they were searching for a candidate all over the country and they were wondering if I would participate in the search process and the interview process for their candidates. Indicated to them that I was just too busy. I had too much going on. And then they posed the question, when we reached the stage of our final three, would you be willing to be on an interview panel for the final three? And I committed to that.

About six weeks later, they called me back. They said, “Hey, we have the final three and we’re trying to schedule the interviews, but we just believe that there’s better talent out there and we were wondering if you would take the job.” And so I was completely thrown off guard by it and I told them that I had everything, the things I had going on, but I said, “Hey, let me ask my wife if she would be open to the idea.” And so I talked to my wife and said that they wanted me to come over and interview for the job.

(11:01):
And she said, “Well, you need to go.” And I said, “Honey, with everything we’ve got going on in Shreveport,” and this is my sweet spot. I said, “I don’t want to just play games with these people. What if I go over there and they offer me the job?” And her quick response, Dr. Jeff, was, “Take it.”

Now, you would have to know my wife to know that that was a sign from God. That was like a Gideon sign. It’s like having a fleece on the ground one day that’s wet and the next day that’s dry. So when she said, “Take it,” I knew that God was up to something. And so I went for the interview and they offered me the job. But again, two years into that, President Obama was elected and I was appointed to the United States Fire Administration.

(11:46):
Dr. Jeff, the job was not even filled the entire time I was away because of the pending mayoral election. Mayor Franklin didn’t want to fill the vacancy. And so when Mayor Kasim Reed was elected and he began to search for a candidate and he came to Washington DC and recruited me to come back. And so they never filled the position. And I ended up going back to Atlanta under Mayor Kasim Reed. I served him five years faithfully and we accomplished tremendous things in that five-year period.

But in my personal life, I was actively engaged at my church, Elizabeth Baptist Church, heavily involved in the men’s ministry. And I wrote a book for a Christian men Bible study for men who struggle with condemnation, which is all of us, right? So the book was for men and encouraging men that essentially, there is therefore now no condemnation, and addressing real hard issues that men have in our walk of faith, one of which is sexual sin.

(12:55):
And so in the book, I wrote about how God created male and female, and he wanted a lot of children. So he gave them the gift of procreation and to do it God’s way has to take place in holy matrimony and that any sexual relationships outside of God’s intentions was a sin. Well, a year after the book was published.

Dr. Jeff Myers (13:20):
So you wrote this book on your own time?

Kelvin Cochran (13:22):
On my own time. Yes, sir.

Dr. Jeff Myers (13:23):
And you wrote it for the men in your church to encourage them to be faithful to their wives and faithful to God?

Kelvin Cochran (13:32):
Yes. And to not allow themselves, to not allow their carnal nature, their sin nature, to continue to cause them to feel that they’re defeated and that they can never be the men that God created them to be. That was the theme of the book.

(13:52):
But an openly gay Atlanta City Council member was shown a few pages out of the 162 page book where I talked about biblical marriage and sexuality, and he was offended by what the Bible had to say. And he complained to the honorable Mayor Kasim Reed. He suspended me for 30 days and after my 30 day suspension was over and they exonerated me from any allegations of discrimination, yet I was terminated anyway. I was trying to think through how to give you the short story on that, but that was a little longer than I was wanting to share.

Dr. Jeff Myers (14:36):
No, no, this is exactly right. I feel like I’ve heard you tell this before, but even as we’re listening to this right now, I’m thinking, but this is part of Christian teaching for 2000 years, and it was part of a Judeo or a Judaistic tradition going back thousands of years before that. Yes. This is part of holy scripture.

Kelvin Cochran (15:08):
Yes.

Dr. Jeff Myers (15:09):
And yet it completely caught off guard somebody who was a member of the city council who was homosexual, were they saying, “I’m against scripture and so I’m going to go after Chief Cochran?” Or was the person saying, “I don’t want a person who believes in the Bible to be in a position of influence in our city.”

Kelvin Cochran (15:32):
It’s the last thing.

Dr. Jeff Myers (15:32):
Maybe you can’t answer that legally.

Kelvin Cochran (15:34):
No, it’s the last thing that you just said. In fact, his words were, Chief Cochran can believe whatever he wants to believe in his personal life, but when his beliefs conflict with those of the city of Atlanta, he has to check them at the door. So his mindset was, yeah, it’s okay for him to believe that way, but there can’t be any public evidence that he believes that way. And because there is public evidence, now that we know how he believes, he should no longer have the privilege of serving as a fire chief of the city of Atlanta. And in essence, he was saying, “And any other city employee that believes his way should be judged in the same manner.”

Dr. Jeff Myers (16:18):
Wow. So essentially calling for mass firing of people who could be observed doing anything like going to church at a church that teaches a biblical worldview should be dismissed from service.

Kelvin Cochran (16:35):
Well, if you express those views in a public context, then yes, that’s essentially what the city of Atlanta was saying.

Dr. Jeff Myers (16:44):
Do cities, and I assume other cities would have similar policies to what Atlanta does, do they require you to get a permission slip to write something like the Bible study that you wrote for your church?

Kelvin Cochran (16:59):
Not necessarily. And I can’t speak to all cities, but the city of Atlanta has certain rules for ethics. And in the context of writing the book that I wrote, I wanted to make sure that I was not violating any of the city’s ethics laws or ordinances or rules or policies.

And so I consulted with the ethics officer of the City of Atlanta and shared, “Hey, I’m writing a book for a Christian men Bible study. It has nothing to do with the city, has nothing to do with the fire department. It’s a Christian faith-based book specifically for men. Is that permissible?” And she emphatically shared with me, yes, it was permissible and that, “Hey, I’m interested in that topic and I would love to have a copy whenever the book is finished.” And that’s how that conversation went.

Dr. Jeff Myers (17:54):
Wow. Chief Cochran, after you had this 30-day suspension, you were exonerated of the charges. Mayor Reed is in this position of, was he the one who made the decision that you would be terminated or was it a city council decision or did you have a chance to actually talk with him about it?

Kelvin Cochran (18:23):
Yes, it was. To your first question, it was the mayor’s decision, but no, I didn’t have a chance to talk to him about it. Mayor Reed delegated the conversation to the chief operating officer and the director of human resources and the city attorney.

In the initial meeting, when they shared with me that my book was a problem for the mayor, they indicated to me that the mayor did not embrace my views expressed in the book and particularly about marriage and sexuality, and that they were going to have to investigate me to determine if I had ever used those views to discriminate against anyone from the LGBTQ community internally in the department or a citizen of the city of Atlanta.

In the 30-day suspension, interviewed citizens and members of the department in that group, none of them, honestly, and thank God for their honesty, said that they had ever experienced anything but fairness from me, that I was one of the most fair leaders that they had ever worked with.

(19:45):
But their conclusion was now that they know my beliefs and views on marriage and sexuality, they just don’t believe that I would qualify to lead them anymore. And so I guess the administration supported that position because even though there was no evidence of any injustice, I was terminated.

Dr. Jeff Myers (20:10):
I can’t imagine the disappointment to have faithfully served Mayor Reed, been hired, personally selected by him twice to head up the fire service there, and then to not even get the phone call just to be dismissed, and that’s that.

Kelvin Cochran (20:30):
Yeah, it was somewhat disheartening. I specifically asked the question to the chief operating officer, “Hey, since I was exonerated on all the charges, do I have an opportunity to appeal to the mayor?” And the answer was an immediate no. And so it was disheartening on the front end. But Dr. Jeff, I realized, you know how some people say, some people who have a near death experience say that their life flashed before their eyes?

Well, being terminated is not close to a near death experience, but I did have the experience of my life flashing before my eyes. And what happened was God showed me in just a brief moment how he had prepared me for that moment, Dr. Jeff, my entire life. I recall instances in my early childhood days of poverty and discrimination and racism, as difficult as dark as those days were, how the hand of God delivered me and my family from welfare and food stamps and poverty.

(21:45):
I remember some challenging days in my youth where the hand of God even was on me during those challenging days and God showed me I was with you in those fires and I brought you out of those fires. I remember the difficult early years as being one of the first African Americans on the Shreveport Fire Department in my childhood dream and the racism and discrimination that I experienced in those fires. And God showed me that he was with me in those fires and he delivered me from those fires.

At every stage of promotion, have you ever heard the phrase, at every level there are new devils? Well, at every level I experienced some form of a new challenge or devil, fiery trials of all sorts, and God delivered me from all those fires. And so God reminded me that that’s not the first time I’d experienced a fiery trial and that everyone that I had experienced prior to that moment, he brought me out and that he was with me in that moment. And I knew that was a God opportunity and I knew that God was going to be with me.

Dr. Jeff Myers (22:57):
How did you process through this with your family? Because if they offer you a job, take it, let’s go to Atlanta, and now all of a sudden this happens. Can you just give us insight into what those conversations were like?

Kelvin Cochran (23:14):
Yeah. Well, one of the blessings of being married and having children and Jesus in the middle of all of that is that your wife and children get to see your spiritual growth and journey over time. And they knew and saw my journey, my growth. My wife saw the immature young guy she married grow into this strong, mature, faithful man. My children, as they began to grow, they saw, and came into saving grace of Christ on their own, they began to see the Christ in me over the years. And so they were maturing.

So by the time that experience of termination came into our family, our family’s faith was so strong that my wife and children did not falter, did not waver, were not afraid. They were so proud of me from the very outset and God strengthened them to strengthen me. He strengthened them, Dr. Jeff, so that I wouldn’t have to worry about ministering to them while I was going through my own fiery trial.

(24:32):
They were ministering to me and encouraging me and sending me scriptures every day and praying for us. And they had their own social challenges because now my wife’s husband has been exposed as this guy who believes that marriage is between a man and a woman and that God created them male and female. And my young adult children had to deal with their coworkers who now their dad has been publicly exposed. And so they had their own fiery trials to deal with and God gave them the strength to stand as well.

Dr. Jeff Myers (25:08):
Well, I appreciate your sensitivity to their situation as well, because when something happens to somebody we love, it happens to us in a way, and it’s an opportunity for us to grow. One of the toughest things I think I have to try to communicate to this rising generation at Summit Ministries is that often suffering is the way God advances his work in the world. It’s the opposite. I think of what a lot of young adults want to hear, which is, “If I obey God and I’m faithful to him and I don’t make him mad and I don’t disobey my parents and I try to be good, then God owes me a life free from suffering.”

Kelvin Cochran (26:01):
Yeah, no, that’s not how the kingdom of God works. There’s a scripture in Ecclesiastes 3. It says, “To everything, there’s a season and a time for every purpose under heaven and the seasons.” What I’ve discovered, Dr. Jeff, are cultivation, seed time, and harvest. Everything goes through cultivation, seed time, and harvest. Cultivation, seed time, and harvest, and sufferings are the cultivation. God is in control of all three seasons, cultivation, seed time, and harvest, but the sufferings part is the cultivation season.

And what I realized. What’s happening to us in cultivation season is, God is preparing our ground for seed time. It’s really a malpractice of husbandry to sow seed into ground that’s not been cultivated.

Dr. Jeff Myers (26:57):
Wow.

Kelvin Cochran (26:58):
So God cultivates us before he sows seeds into us. And then because he sows the seeds, we bring forth a harvest. And so suffering is a part of the process. It’s an ongoing divine cycle so that God can produce fruit, so that we can bring forth fruit in every season of our life.

So here’s a scripture that really got me through my fiery trials. “Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trials, which is to try you as though some strange thing happened to you, but rejoice and as though you are partakers of Christ’s sufferings, that when his glory shall be revealed, you may be glad also with exceeding joy. If you be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye for the spirit of glory and of God rest up on you. On their part, he is evil spoken of, but on your part, he is glorified.”

(27:55):
All that we go through to get to the glorified state, we have to first of all go through that suffering state. There’s not a single person in what we call the Hall of Faith, Hebrews chapter 11. Every one of those men and women went through the seasons of suffering before they ended up being in the hall of faith in Hebrews chapter 11.

Dr. Jeff Myers (28:21):
Wow. That’s such a good word. It’s a powerful one. Thank you for that reminder. Chief Cochran, as we kind of move toward the end of the story here, you were suffering for a belief that you held that’s from scripture and has been practiced by Jews and by Christians for millennia. And yet in the suffering, it was determined that the city of Atlanta needs to be held accountable for this. The suffering does not justify doing nothing to cause the city to be accountable. Did you wrestle through that kind of a decision? How does your suffering and being suffering for the sake of Christ relate to a lawsuit to cause the city of Atlanta to be accountable to truth?

Kelvin Cochran (29:22):
Yes. Growing up and being raised on faith and patriotism, I knew that what the city of Atlanta did to me was unjust, that our First Amendment right to freedom of religion and freedom of speech guarantees that I had the right to write that book and express my views without consequences.

But what I did not know, Dr. Jeff, was that there was a Christian law firm called Alliance Defending Freedom who would take my case and champion a four year legal journey that will ultimately end up in my vindication. But the vindication and victory, what drove me was not necessarily justice for myself. Had I bowed down to that idol, other government employees would face the same thing and the same consequences. And so I had a stewardship obligation, a faith obligation to challenge that decision knowing that God was going to see me through it.

(30:30):
And the victory, Jeff, was not just for me, but now any government employee that faces the same circumstances have the blessed assurance that should they be terminated, they’re going to immediately be rewarded with the vindication because of the victory that I won in the city of Atlanta. And so that’s quite significant. And that’s one of the reasons why I chose the direction that I chose.

Dr. Jeff Myers (31:04):
I appreciate the way you put that because by standing up for what is right, you are standing up for those who aren’t able and are in a position to defend themselves. And you’re standing for accountability for a city administration that said, “You don’t have the right to live out your beliefs, but the mayor and the city council members, they have a right to live out their beliefs if they’re different or if they’re somehow opposed to yours.”

I think it was a federal court that went through your case and they said, the government cannot require permission slips for its employees to write unimportant matters like faith and values in their off time. Those requirements are unconstitutional precisely because they enable the government to play speech favorites, approving messages it likes and denying requests for disfavored speech like that of Chief Cochran’s. And then so they vindicated you, they paid a financial settlement and now you actually are involved with the law firm you mentioned, Alliance Defending Freedom.

(32:17):
They’re good friends of Summit Ministries. They’ve helped us on a number of occasions when we’ve been attacked for one thing or another. Tell us a little bit about what you’re working on now.

Kelvin Cochran (32:28):
Yeah. It’s just a part of God’s continuous story in my life, how I was a client of Alliance Defending Freedom, had no knowledge that they ever existed. The four-year journey led to vindication. And now I’m actually a member of the staff, a member of the team. And I currently serve as senior vice president of human resources and faith initiatives for alliance defending freedom.

One of the things that, the greatest fears that sons and daughters of God have for standing on their faith is the loss of their job, the loss of their income. And it’s one of the greatest detriments to taking the stand. My testimony, my story facing the fire is living proof that my destiny was not in the hands of Mayor Kaseem Reed. God used that fiery trial, that dark moment to usher me into a level of service and ministry that is exceeding abundantly above all I could ever ask or think.

(33:43):
Even though I’m with ADF now, Dr. Jeff, I was immediately hired by Elizabeth Baptist Church in Atlanta to serve as the chief operating officer. And so there was never a time where I was without income. In fact, not to be boastful, but if I’m boasting, if I’m sounding like I’m boasting, I’m boasting on the Lord. My income has steadily increased from the time I was terminated. It’s never taken a nose dive.

So I served as chief operating officer of Elizabeth Baptist Church for five and a half years, and now I’m ushered into another level of service as Senior Vice President of Alliance Defending Freedom over human resources and faith initiatives, which is the same calling, but at a whole nother level from a kingdom perspective.

And so one of my chief responsibilities on the faith initiatives, this is just such a God story, I’m responsible now for developing a national deployment strategy from the body of Christ to respond on behalf of believers who are publicly attacked for living out their faith.

(34:54):
And so that no believer would ever have to ask the question, “If I stand, is there someone who will stand with me?” So ADF has taken on the responsibility of collaborating with communities of faith, faith-based organizations across and denominations across the body of Christ so that we’ll have an army of resources ready to respond on behalf of believers for living out their faith.

And then another initiative I’m responsible for is what we call the Generational Wins Prayer Initiative. We call the generational wins religious freedom, freedom of speech, marriage and family, the sanctity of life and parental rights. Those five things are essential to keeping the doors open for the gospel for generations. And so we refer to them as generational wins. All the cases that we take on with ADF fall in one of those five areas. So the prayer initiative is our desire over the next three years to recruit one million intercessors to form a community of intercessors who pray for the generational wins on an ongoing basis.

Dr. Jeff Myers (36:08):
Wow. That just gives me chills. If people who are watching or listening to the show right now say, “I want to be on that team,” how do they get involved?

Kelvin Cochran (36:18):
That’s a great question. They simply need to go to our website, adflegal.org/prayer. That’s adflegal.org/prayer. And that’ll immediately come up on a website and there’s a button that says join and you click on that join button and you can join as just a member. That’s a person who I just want to pray, you can join as a member of a group. We call it the G145 group. So if you want to start a prayer group, you can click on that button. And then there’s Catalyst. That’s an organization, a congregation or a Christian ministry who wants their whole ministry or congregation to be a part of the initiative. And it takes less than 60 seconds to join us.

Dr. Jeff Myers (37:09):
Wow. Wow. Well, that’s so incredible. We did a poll recently and one third of people said they are afraid to give their viewpoint because they might lose their job. And well, I interviewed Senator Rick Sedtorum, he said, “Well, then let them lose it.”

(37:27):
Because he said, “I’ve lost a lot of jobs. I’ve lost elections. I’ve lost jobs.” He said, “God has always brought something better out of it than what I had before, but most importantly, he freed me from the fear of staying that caused me to stay silent because I might lose something that was valuable to me.” And being freed from that, he said, is one of the best things.

Kelvin Cochran (37:51):
It really, really is. Because of the audience that you are appealing to, you mentioned to me that 20 year olds, 30 year olds will be listening to this. There’s five quick lessons God taught me. I just want to give them to you if we’ve got time for me to, so that they can have the courage and grace to stand when that moment comes, not if it comes, when that moment comes. Here are the five things that God taught me.

Number one is God always prepares his sons and daughters for the moment. He always prepares us for the moment. Just know that you wouldn’t be facing that moment if God had not determined that he had equipped you for it. So that’s number one. Number two is the toughest of the five. There are worldly consequences for standing on biblical truth and standing for Christ.

(38:45):
There are worldly consequences for standing on biblical truth and standing for Christ. I’m going to give you one example because of that age group. About six years ago over in Northern Kenya, there was a college campus where Muslim and Christian students were known to attend. A radical group of Islamists stormed the college campus, separated the Muslim students from the Christian students and told the Christian students, “You’re all going to die today. The only way you get to live is to reject Jesus Christ.” 125 college kids refused to reject Jesus Christ and they were all gunned down on the spot.

That’s one example of there are worldly consequences for standing on biblical truth and standing for Christ. We don’t face nearly those consequences in the United States of America, but in the United States of America, we have college kids that reject Jesus Christ because they’re afraid to lose a boyfriend or a girlfriend, or they’re afraid they’ll be kicked out of some social circle or they’re afraid they’ll be unfriended.

(39:47):
So God knows that in our country, we’ve got a long way to go before we get to the courage and grace that those college kids have. There are worldly consequences for standing on biblical truth and standing for Christ. But here’s number three, there are kingdom consequences for standing on biblical truth and standing for Christ, and the kingdom consequences are always greater than the worldly consequences.

Dr. Jeff Myers (40:13):
Wow.

Kelvin Cochran (40:13):
The problem, Dr. Jeff, is when we allow our fear of the worldly consequences to overcome our faith and the kingdom consequences, you don’t get to see many sons and daughters of God who are walking in number three because of their fear in number two. Number four is when we have the courage and grace to stand, our enemies, our persecutors get to see a side of God that they would not have seen had we not stood. And the B part of that one is we get to see a side of God that we would not have seen had we not stood.

The fifth thing is for sons and daughters of God who have the courage and grace to stand, their life of blessing always goes to another level that’s exceeding abundantly above all they could have ever asked or thought. Every time in the Bible, a son or daughter of God stood, their life went to another level they would not have imagined.

(41:15):
Job was restored twice as much as he lost. Joseph became a prime minister. David became the king of Israel. Mordecai, Esther’s cousin who raised her as a daughter, he became a prime minister. Esther inherited the estate of Haman. Jesus has the name above every name and it all came because they stood during their suffering and God took their life to another level. I’m living proof that God’s taken my life, Dr. Jeff, to a level that I never, ever would have dreamed or imagined that it would be. But had I given into the fear of the worldly consequences, I would not be walking in the kingdom consequences that Jesus has promised.

Dr. Jeff Myers (42:06):
Yeah. Yeah. What a powerful message. I just have really loved the time that we’ve gotten to chat. Thank you for standing for truth. Thank you for being willing to take the things that you’ve learned and share them with the rising generation. That is our prayer every day that we’ll have a generation that will not be fragile, but will be resilient, a generation that will not shrink back, but a generation that will press forward. So thanks, Chief Cochran, for being on the show today.

Kelvin Cochran (42:39):
It has been my pleasure, Dr. Jeff. Thank you for having me on the show.

Dr. Jeff Myers (42:42):
Thank you to my guest today, Chief Kelvin Cochran, for coming on the program. I’m thankful to be able to highlight great organizations like Alliance Defending Freedom. This is the organization Chief Cochran mentioned that protects religious liberty. You can find out more at adflegal.org. And if you go to adflegal.org/prayer, you can find out about the Generational Wind Prayer Initiative that Chief Cochran talked about.

Also, remember the book, Facing the Fire by Chief Kelvin Cochran. You may want to pick up that book wherever books are sold and inspire yourself and others with the story. Remember, our fight is not against flesh and blood. It’s against principalities and powers. We are called to stand on what God has revealed, knowing that he will work things out for his good and for ours. Thank you for listening. We’ll see you next week.

(43:38):
Hey, everyone. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dr. Jeff Show. It’s a podcast from Summit Ministries, summit.org. Summit is a nonprofit ministry that exists to equip and support the rising generation to embrace God’s truth and champion a biblical worldview.

For nearly 60 years, Summit Ministries has been training students and those who work with students to develop, deepen, and defend a biblical worldview through life-changing conferences, thoughtful church, homeschool, and Christian school, curriculum books, free online resources and more. If you want to live out a biblical worldview in today’s world and you desire to instill a lifelong faith in the rising generation, visit summit.org/thedrjeffshow for more information.

Listeners, I want you to know that our podcast is on Edifi, which is a truly powerful app that brings together thousands of the best Christian podcasts in one place. For your listening enjoyment, you can download it at edifi.app.

(44:42):
Be sure to share this show if you have enjoyed listening to it, and leave a review, if you would, on the site where you download the show, that helps more people know about the Dr. Jeff Show, and I look forward to seeing you next week.