The Dr. Jeff Show Ep. 50 – Doug DeVos

Episode 50: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

In this episode, Dr. Jeff interviews entrepreneur and philanthropist Doug DeVos on the launch day of his new podcast, “Believe.” The conversation explores the principles that shaped DeVos’s life and career, which were heavily influenced by his father, Amway co-founder Richard DeVos, and his book of the same title. They discuss the timeless nature of free enterprise, the importance of overcoming the fear of failure, and the power of personal responsibility.

DeVos shares personal anecdotes from his upbringing, articulates his views on the vitality of the American dream, defends individual wealth stewardship against calls for government control, and explains his philosophy of treating philanthropy with a business-like focus on impactful outcomes.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:02):
This show’s available on Apple, Google, Spotify, Edifi, Liftable, wherever you get your podcast. Please share it, tell your friends about it. This is the show where I interview major thought leaders from many fields of influence to show how our worldview changes everything.

Our guest today is an entrepreneur, business leader, and philanthropist, perhaps most known for his leadership at Amway, the world’s largest direct selling company. He’s coming out with a new podcast called Believe that encourages everyone to lead lives of meaning. Please welcome Doug DeVos to the show. Doug DeVos, welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show.

Doug DeVos (00:40):
Dr. Jeff, thank you, sir. It’s great to be here.

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:43):
I am really looking forward to our conversation. I’ve known your family for many years, known of the work that you have done through the Amway Corporation, which is I guess an eight or plus billion dollar company. And your family has done so much in helping so many organizations and nonprofits just do amazing things.

There’s so many different directions we could go for this, but I’m so excited to have the conversation because today, the day we’re recording this, you are launching your own podcast called Believe with an exclamation point at the end. And you sent me a copy of a book that your dad, Richard DeVos, had written that’s actually that title. And it is a fun exploration of how to overcome the fear of failure, how to achieve your goals, how to just do crazy things to achieve your dreams. So anyway, I can’t wait to have this conversation.

Doug DeVos (01:44):
Well, thank you so much for inviting me to be part of this. And you’re right. I grew up my whole life in the family business, if you will, in the Amway business. And the principles that dad talks about in the book are the things that we grew up with and that are applied in the business and really in the lives of all the people that we worked with my whole life. And so when it came time to say, “Hey, we’re going to try to explore some issues in today’s world.”

We just went back to say, that framework and that idea of believing in things and asking the question, “What do you believe?” We’re not going to try to advocate too much. We’re just going to try to ask people to explore for themselves, to build on their own foundations, maybe open their views to another perspective to listen and understand, maybe not necessarily to change, but just to try to explore that a little bit and then come back to the foundation. We clearly have a bit of an opinion, so I’ll try to keep sharing mine a little bit along the way, but it should be a good fun exercise.

Dr. Jeff Myers (02:48):
This is a great show for that because we get to say what we think. We don’t always have to agree about everything. That’s the beauty of it. We just get to talk about it. And so there are a lot of things that I want to get your opinion on about things that are even happening in our world. And I got to tell you, when you sent this book to me, and I got it yesterday, so I’m a book nerd. I read half of it last night. I did not finish it. But it is like this book was written yesterday as it addresses some of the cultural issues that we are facing right now that keep people down.

Doug DeVos (03:24):
Yeah. Yeah. It’s funny, I had a friend I worked with years ago and we had gone through a number of issues in the business world and some problems kept kind of resurfacing and he goes, “Same clowns, different circus.” And so it’s just the meaning of, the principles stand the test of time.

Now, maybe the examples are from, when the time, when the book was written, but the principles stand the test of time. And there’s things that you can kind of come back to that are just part of our life and that we can figure out and think through how to apply in the world today. And that’s what you do. That’s what the ministries are all about is to help people think through those, and not just principles, truths, that can apply in their life and in their work today.

Dr. Jeff Myers (04:16):
Well, I’d like to go back a little bit and have you tell us some of your story before we dive into some of the big topics that I’m really curious about. But you grew up in this business world. Your father, Richard DeVos and his best friend, Jay Van Andel, began the Amway Company in 1959.

Doug DeVos (04:36):
Right, right.

Dr. Jeff Myers (04:37):
So you were a little guy. You grew up in this business environment. Tell us a little of what that was like.

Doug DeVos (04:44):
Sure, sure. And to create that a little bit, I’ll have to go even a touch before that to talk about dad and Jay, his buddy from high school. It was the 1940s. It’s World War II, but they always talked about someday this war’s going to end, someday we’re going to get in business together. And they just had this adventurous spirit of things that they wanted to do. They had a relationship and a partnership and a commitment to each other to do something together.

And so they did a variety of other businesses. The things you talk about after World War II and when they came back, they started flying school. And the only reason that’s important is because neither one of them knew how to fly. So it’s like they just wanted to get business together. They said, “Well, hire the instructors. We’ll do this sort of thing.”

Dr. Jeff Myers (05:36):
As one does.

Doug DeVos (05:36):
And as one would, right? And so they had all these different experiences and then they started direct selling actually in 1949 with a company called Neutralite, learned a lot and then started Amway in 1959. And so I grew up in the Amway business of this entrepreneurial spirit of this belief in free enterprise and the free market and people having an opportunity to set goals for themselves and to work hard to achieve them and the sense of personal worth because the opportunity was available to everybody.

It didn’t matter where you were from. It didn’t matter if you had failure in your past. You are going to have an opportunity if you were willing to do something with it. And they believed that people would do something with it if they had an opportunity. And so that was the environment I grew up in. And not only did I just hear it, the best part about that life is I saw it every day.

(06:31):
They were the same at home as my folks and Jay and Betty Vananda, we were neighbors. We grew up next to each other, our family, the Venandal family, but we saw it in people all over the world as the business became global that these principles worked across humanity, if you will. We talked about freedom, family, hope, and reward.

Well, every society values freedom. Every society values family. Every society is looking for a better future and every society wants to be rewarded for the work that they’ve done. And so that’s the environment I grew up in. And I was honored to work at the company for years. I was a president for 16 years and now I’m serving as a co-chair with Steven Andal.

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:20):
Tell me, as you think back on those experiences growing up, a lot of people who are listening to this or watching the show right now are parents and they realize my convictions don’t get genetically transmitted to my children. I have to somehow teach and train them. Are there any specific moments with your dad and mom growing up where you think, “Boy, that was a life lesson that I’ve hung onto and that’s helped me.”

Doug DeVos (07:47):
Boy, so many of them. And what my mom and dad did so well was they talked a little bit, but then they just showed you. They just did it. That was the life that they led. And so you could see it. They put it into practice. And so I remember once when I didn’t think I was making friends at school and I was kind of having a tough time and my dad gave me a bit of a pep talk and he said, “Okay, I’m not going to go to work right away. I’m going to take you to school.” And gave me the pep talk.

And I remember walking into the school and he’s yelling out the car door, “Go get him Mr. Happy.” It was like straight out of a motivational book 101, but it impacted me. He believed in me and he was encouraging me and he changed his life around to spend that time with me at a time when I needed it. And that happened so many times in my life with my mom and dad at different times and different ways that time, and don’t just say it, do it. It had a huge impact.

Dr. Jeff Myers (08:56):
Did you get to go to work with your dad and walk alongside him as he and Jay built that business?

Doug DeVos (09:04):
A little bit because I was the youngest in our family and in the years when I was starting with my work is when he was starting to have some health challenges and was not as active as he could be. And so thankfully, by God’s grace, he had a heart transplant in 1997 and lived another 21 years after that.

But when I started working in the 80s, he had some health challenges and so the interaction was limited, but the interaction that I had was at work, but at home in any sort of instance, because as I said, these principles are things they applied in their life. So it wasn’t only limited to work, but I had a great experience with him once as I was starting to move forward my career and had some levels of responsibility. He was going to a meeting where I was kind of setting it up and I said, “Okay, dad, we’re going to this meeting.”

(10:04):
“You’ve got to remember this. Don’t forget about this. We’re going to talk about this. Here’s the topic.” And he stopped and looked at me and goes, “You know, I’ve done this before. You don’t have to tell me about these sorts of things.” I’m like, “Okay, got it.”

Dr. Jeff Myers (10:16):
Yeah, I love it. Did you feel pressure to go into the family business?

Doug DeVos (10:26):
I don’t think pressure. There may have been a level of expectation or a hope, but really it was always positioned as opportunity. And again, dad, I don’t know if you remember an organization called Gospel Films or Billy Zioli who was an evangelist who started gospel films. And he was a great friend of our family and a great mentor to me, a wonderful, wonderful man.

And as I was thinking about a career, of where to go, he said, “Look, you could probably get a job at Amway, but if you’re just going there to get a job, don’t go. Save everybody the trouble yourself most of all.” So go back, think about it, pray about it, and if it’s something that you want to do, then by all means dive in. So he gave me a good challenge to think through it. And like I said, I’d grown up with it when I was young.

(11:16):
I’d always expected and wanted to go there, but he made me take a step back and make a positive choice, not just to respond to encouragement or something like that, but to make a choice myself. And that goes back to our principles of personal responsibility or making your own decisions, things of that nature. So I always loved it. Never look back.

Dr. Jeff Myers (11:36):
Good. Yeah, that’s a great perspective. A lot of people think, okay, I need to carry on the work of my family, but if you see it as an opportunity, this is a calling for me. This is not just a calling to continue my family’s legacy, but this is God’s calling on my life.

Well, there are lots of things that anybody who’s listening or watching, who lives in West Michigan knows the influence that Amway has had on the local economy. You see the different public buildings that your family and the Van Andels have funded, all the different charitable works that have been funded there, the number of people who have jobs there. And some people love the direct selling model, others don’t, but the point is there have been millions of people who were able to start their own business, take some responsibility for their own financial progress.

Doug DeVos (12:34):
Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (12:35):
And it is, in many ways, took something that was true of the American dream and made it truer. Is that a fair statement of the impact of the company?

Doug DeVos (12:43):
Yeah, absolutely. And the whole idea behind the Amway business is for all those who joined, they’re in business for themselves. It’s not our business, it’s their business. And so to a certain extent, we’re pure free enterprise, we’re pure entrepreneurship, we’re an organization that empowers people to have a business of their own. And that sort of thing becomes a tradition that they can build. We have people who joined the Amway business when it started, their family business is now in the fourth generation because they built something of value and then their kids grew up in that environment, they built something of value and it’s continued.

And so this idea was, and what dad and Jay were always focused on was this idea, this entrepreneurship that everybody would want to have a business of their own. Everybody would want to have that type of opportunity. And so while it’s a business for everybody, there’s a lot of people who love the idea, but they decided they wanted a career, they wanted to do something else.

(14:02):
But that’s great too. We have a lot of people who work at the company in a career, in a more traditional setting, but are still really committed to these sorts of values. And it takes all of us working together. And even when you talk about some of the community things that we’ve been blessed to be a part of, there’s so many others in our community that did the same thing. They gave back to their community. They shared their time, talent, and treasure, their heart and soul with their neighbors and others in the community to try to make it a better place for everybody.

Dr. Jeff Myers (14:39):
As we get ready to talk a little bit about your podcast and coming up in the book, I just want you to know that you’ve tapped into something that we tell all of our students at Summit Ministries, which is no matter what else you do, you should start a business. Start a business because you never really learn to serve as well as when you have to serve in order to survive.

Doug DeVos (15:03):
Right, right. Yeah. That’s a great thing. And like I was saying earlier, dad and Jay, they just wanted to get in business and they learned so much in that process because you’ve got to serve a customer, you got to make payroll, you got to pay rent, whatever the situation is, and when you’re starting it, you’ve got to do it. And the learning is just tremendous. And I’m sure all the students at Summit are well versed in opportunities and how to improve themselves and be prepared for what’s ahead.

Dr. Jeff Myers (15:38):
Yeah. Well, I’d love to dive into some of the themes here. One of them is toward the beginning of the book, the story is told, your dad tells the story of starting a flying company without knowing how to fly, and then starting a drive-in restaurant without knowing how to run a restaurant.

And it’s fascinating to me because at the heart of the free enterprise system is not capital. At the heart of it is a belief that you can do something and overcome failure. And at one point in the book, he says, he talks about people who are dreaming, but never daring, never willing to say, “I can.” Never trusting their dreams to the real world of action and effort. People in short who are so afraid of failure that they fail.

Doug DeVos (16:33):
It’s heartbreaking when somebody wants to do something, but just for whatever reason, and there’s a lot of valid ones, they just don’t take the step forward. We did a lot of research at Amway, and when you ask people about starting their own business, it’s a pretty high percentage, 70% or something would be really, really interested.

And then there’s a huge gap from people who actually do it because they just don’t take the step forward. “Well, I don’t have this or I don’t have the education. I don’t have the experience. I don’t have a good product.” It’s just not the right time. And I remember my dad was speaking to a university graduating class and it was at the time of a recession and they said, “Well, everyone’s telling you it’s not the right time out there to start your career or get a job. Forget it. It’s the only time you have.”

Dr. Jeff Myers (17:20):
Right.

Doug DeVos (17:20):
This is the only time you have. So make it happen, step forward. And if it’s something that you want to do, figure out how to pull it together. That’s what that example has happened over and over. And there’s a lot of statistics. There are a lot of people who have failed after they’ve started. They’ve failed. But did they really?

We have a lot of experiences in the Amway business where I would see business people at different conferences and they would say, “Gosh, when I was in college, I was in the Amway business. My aunt was in it, my uncle was in it, this and that. I learned this. I did that.” Now, none of them showed up as a great success in the Amway business.

(18:00):
They would have showed up as somebody who quit because we weren’t tracking them anymore, but for a period of time they did something and they learned something and they applied it to their future and built on it from there. And so whatever your experience is, it’s not a waste if you don’t let it be a waste. If you learn from it, if you grow through it, you can then build on it and apply it in different ways and keep going.

I think there’s a great phrase someone says, “At the end of the day, we’re all self-employed. Whatever you’re doing, it’s up to you to do the job.” And so that’s the encouragement, is to take that step. There’s a bit of risk and be prudent, be thoughtful, be prayerful, pray a lot and feel that that’s the right step to take, but take it and step out on faith.

Dr. Jeff Myers (19:00):
Such an important word in a time where mental health issues are at an all time high, anxieties at an all time high, depression’s at an all time high. And there are a lot of people who’ve begun to publicly say the American dream is over. When you have a conversation with a young adult, how do you approach that topic?

Doug DeVos (19:22):
Well, for all your students or for a young adult, anyone that we’re talking to, the American dream is alive and well. And I referenced some of the research that we did and because that was one of our questions around the world, if you will, not the American dream, but maybe the spirit of free enterprise or this enterprising idea, was it on its way out? Was it over the hill? Was it something of the past?

And all the research came back and said, absolutely not. It is alive and well. Some countries more than others, some different characteristics, but it’s alive and well. So my message is that it’s alive and well and it’s out there. You see it every day, but sometimes we’re overwhelmed by the other angle, all the bad news, some of the things that you mentioned, which is real and we need to hear that, but don’t let it paralyze us.

(20:16):
Don’t let it stop us or think that it’s an overwhelming barrier that can’t be overcome because people are overcoming it every day. And all of our research and all of our experience would say that this idea, the American dream is alive and well, and this entrepreneurial spirit is still there. And even through the challenges that we’ve gone through in the past couple of years, and especially on small businesses, a lot of businesses closed and a lot of those people started another business. They got closed down, but they went back at it and they started something again and they kept going.

So sometimes the statistics may not tell the whole story about the perseverance or the spirit or the fire that people have inside to do something special in their lives. And of course, for our discussion, that starts, in my opinion, with the faith that believes that you’re created special and you have a purpose and a meaning in life. And so keep praying about it and then taking those steps in faith to find it.

Dr. Jeff Myers (21:24):
I remember growing up some of my years in Kansas and people would say it’s not the size of the dog and the fight, it’s the size of the fight in the dog. And those people who say, “Yes, I failed at that. Boy, did I learn my lessons. Now I’m going to try again.”

Doug DeVos (21:41):
Exactly.

Dr. Jeff Myers (21:42):
That’s so, so amazing. I wanted to ask you a question about, we’re recording this in January of 2022, and Elon Musk was Time Magazine’s person of the year. And so here’s a relatively young man, he’s younger than me, so he’s young, and he has, through the value of his companies, has become the wealthiest man in the history of the world. And there are a lot of people who say we shouldn’t trust a guy like that with all of that wealth. There’s actually a United States Senator who openly admitted that he thinks the government should control that capital rather than Elon Musk controlling it.

And I’d love for you to address that because this goes back to the issues of socialism and communism versus free markets and free enterprise and so forth. Help a student think through, okay, say you’re in class and the professor says, “Oh, the government should control that capital. Elon Musk should not be in charge of $300 billion. The government should be controlling that capital.” How do you begin responding to that?

Doug DeVos (22:52):
Well, there’s so many places to start. I got to try to pick and choose a little bit. It kind of comes down, or maybe it starts with a bit of a worldview of whose is all this anyway, right? It’s all Gods. And the Bible gave one bag of talents to one, two bags, to another, five, to another, right? And what are you going to do with it? What are you going to do with the talents and gifts that I gave you? Whether it’s money or whether it’s skills or whether it’s knowledge, whatever it may be, what are you going to do with what God’s given to you?

And the fact that it was, at least certainly in our country, was the people who established the government, not the other way around. And so it kind of comes back to those first principles of freedom is a gift from God. God gave us consciousness and being and these sorts of things. And he even loved us so much. He gave us the choice to choose him or not.

(23:57):
So when you kind of start from that perspective, now you start to wind it down a little bit and it starts to be, okay, how are some people or a group of people going to control the lives of other people? Now, we’re all happy to have a nation of laws and we’re all happy to abide, and go the speed limit, and pay our taxes, and do what we need to do. But when someone’s successful, you’re really going to…

Let’s change the example. You’re really going to take an MVP trophy away from somebody or an Academy Award and say, “Hey, that’s really not yours. You really didn’t do it. That really should be shared with the rest of us.” Okay, but then does that mean we’re not going to celebrate achievement, that we don’t like our teams to win, or that we don’t want our children to be successful?

(24:39):
It’s kind of along those attitudes where, okay, no, we all want to be equal. And I think history tells us that when you start to do that, you just lower the expectations and you lower the performance. And generally, people tend to be equally miserable in their life because there ceases to be an example to aspire towards. Now, whether Elon Musk or any sports figure or business figure or anyone else is the right target to shoot for, well, we can talk about that all the time, but the idea of achievement, the idea of using the gifts that God has given you, those are your gifts.

If you want to share those things, absolutely. Be generous. In fact, yes, be generous. Help people out, reach a handout, and engage. But this idea that when somebody’s successful, “Hey, that’s mine. I did that.” And I think the role of government is to create a safe environment for people to achieve their potential, to dream big and go out and do it, to impact themselves, their family, their community in a positive way.

(25:56):
And when you start to just take everything and say, as soon as somebody’s successful, okay, he’s a big target. But as time goes on, I heard someone say with tax policy or something, that’s great. Send people with the pitchforks and the torches to go to that person and take all their money and say, well, after a while, they end up at your front door. Say, wait a minute, when did I become rich? I was like, what happened? And that, where does it stop?

(26:25):
So I encourage us to think of the idea about it and then apply it. Are we going to celebrate achievement? If someone’s successful, that’s great. He’s going to pay his taxes. He’s going to comply with the law just like everyone else. He gets one vote just like everyone else in our government that we’ve established. So I think it kind of comes back to that perspective, in my opinion.

Dr. Jeff Myers (26:51):
Yeah. It’s personal responsibility, but then also not only the responsibility to earn or to set goals, but the responsibility to steward wisely everything that you have, because it came from God. If everything belongs to God and we are stewards, as you mentioned in the parable of the talents, then burying it is the worst thing that we can do. Taking risk is then one of the very best things that we can do.

Doug DeVos (27:18):
Right.

Dr. Jeff Myers (27:18):
Yeah. What’s stopping people? I mean, we know the value of risk and your family’s been part of your family business, you’re heavily involved in sports and sports teams. What is it that’s going on that’s causing people to be so timid these days?

Doug DeVos (27:39):
My opinion on that is the cost of, there’s a pretty big cost of speaking your mind, which is absolutely counter to everything our country was founded on, the first amendment to freedom of speech, freedom of thought, the ability to express what you want to express. And it kind of comes back again to the previous question of at what point does somebody have control over somebody else, to what you can say, to what you can earn, to what you can do.

When we first moved into Eastern Europe, we opened in Ukraine and had an interesting dinner with some of the management there talking about growing up in Eastern block countries and how some were selected to go to school and they were selected to pursue this career. They didn’t have a choice. That was just what they were selected to do and how when things went wrong, I’m sorry there’s not going to be any beans this year because one of our satellite countries didn’t grow them very well, but your government loves you so much.

(28:37):
We’re going to give everybody an orange for Christmas. They just told these stories that were just absolutely heartbreaking about how people want to control other people. But there’s a cost. And I think the media today allows people to have an oversized voice to shut other people down in the way that it works in many respects, but it can go both ways. It can also be a voice.

And for like what you’re doing, Jeff and others, what we try to do, we can get that other voice out there and we can have an impact as well because not only is it a right in our country, but this is what I would believe God created us to do, to be all that he created us to be and gave us, like I said earlier, the gift of making choices for ourselves of what we will believe.

Dr. Jeff Myers (29:34):
Yeah. Wow. This is really powerful, Doug. I’m so grateful for your coming on the show today. Before we talk about your podcast, because I want to be sure that everybody knows about it, they’re going to want to sign up for this and download it, but your work throughout your lifetime has generated a lot of wealth. And I’m just curious how you make decisions about how to give that because you’re a very generous guy, your family’s been very generous, but you don’t have all the money in the world. There’s surely more needs out there than you can possibly meet. How do you make decisions about good stewardship?

Doug DeVos (30:15):
Yeah. Well, it starts just with the stewardship decision. Again, the example from my mom and dad was before they were successful was, we’re going to tithe. This money is God’s, this is it. When they didn’t have a lot of money, that tradition continued. So there was this idea of stewardship that was built into them and to us that this is what we want to do.

But it’s the wise use of resources of stewardship, whether you’re investing in the business to be a profitable, ongoing concern, or you’re investing in your community to overcome a challenge or you’re investing in a person to help them overcome a challenge so they can be successful. The biggest thing we’re trying to do is get beyond, oh, that sounds nice. Oh, that looks good. To say, is it really helping somebody? Is it really impacting and changing their life for the better?

(31:09):
Have we really removed a barrier that allowed them to succeed? Again, success is their definition. Whatever that may be, it’s not what I think is success. It’s what they think. Does it allow them to be a productive member in our community and their family? And so we’re starting to ask those questions and really, frankly, starting to treat our giving like a business.

And really seeing that people aren’t money, but you can still invest in people and you can see them grow and flourish and reach their potential and generally far beyond anything you could have imagined for them because of the determination that they can have in themselves. So it does. We spend quite a lot of time and have spent quite a lot of time thinking about, is this really helping? Because it’s not about, do I feel good because I wrote a check for something.

(32:11):
It’s about, did we do something? Did we connect with a person that impacted their lives positively? Because there’s a lot of things you can do for somebody that just enables them to make poverty a little bit more comfortable, to make addiction a little bit more comfortable. That’s not what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to help them live the best life that they can and reach the potential that God instilled in them. That’s what we believe.

Dr. Jeff Myers (32:37):
Yeah. Well, it strikes me as I’m trying to think through what somebody might say who’s just beginning. Maybe they’ve finished their education. They’re now asking, “Should I start a business? Should I go into a career? I don’t know if I’ll be able to generate real wealth.” But all of the resources that God will ever give them, short of the amount of money in their bank account, they already have really. Don’t they?

I mean, like all the things you’re talking about, the willingness to ask hard questions, the willingness to walk alongside of people, the willingness to form relationships, the willingness to mentor and be mentor, to learn, to grow, that’s all a kind of currency, isn’t it? I mean, it’s not money in the bank, but it’s everything else that’s necessary short of that.

Doug DeVos (33:28):
You’ve already got it. I completely agree with that because money’s just a representation of some definition of value. And when you look at the value of a relationship, the value of a friendship, the value of innovation, ingenuity, determination, perseverance, those things, they can translate into some financial or money value, if you will.

All money does is allow you to transfer value a little more easily, a little outside of yourself. The value really is built into you when you were created. And all of it’s God’s. If you turn it into money, it’s still all God’s money. We’re not taking it with us. I remember when my dad’s partner, when Jay Venandle passed away on that day, there was another woman who had worked with us who had passed away and I went from one funeral to the next.

(34:35):
And it was a smaller place. There weren’t as many people. There wasn’t as much notoriety around it. It was very different. But I remember thinking she is receiving the same welcome in heaven as Jay did. Jay lived a life of faith and she lived a life of faith. And it doesn’t matter where they were on earth. They achieved great things and they’re welcomed in heaven right now. There’s a celebration for both of them.

And it was kind of a powerful thing because it’s not like you can stuff money in a casket and think you’re going to take it with you. Everything you’ve done, like you said, God gave to you, what do you do with it? Then that’s what we take with us.

Dr. Jeff Myers (35:21):
So good. Well, tell us a little about the podcast. Congratulations on launching this. I’m really excited about it. I’m looking forward to downloading it myself and checking it out and listening to some of the guests that you have. But tell us what you want to achieve through this and who are some of the people you’re going to be interviewing.

Doug DeVos (35:41):
Sure, sure. Well, thanks for the opportunity and for all your audience. The idea with the podcast is to talk about this concept of belief. What do you believe? And challenging people to get there, because it seems to me sometimes in life, if you kind of just float around side to side and you haven’t landed, then you don’t have a foundation from which you can build going forward.

And like we talked a little bit, you’re getting a lot of messages and a lot of other people are going to try to tell you what to believe. And I don’t want to do that. I want to just explore topics that are important to kind of develop a personal belief system about. So certainly faith is one. We talked about, kind of, the role of government or the founding of our country, some of these kinds of constitutional principles in this environment that we live.

(36:33):
As we’re told, give to God what’s God’s, give to Caesar what’s Caesar’s. We kind of are citizens on earth before we can become citizens of heaven. And so how do we think about that? This concept of the American dream. How did that happen? So we have immigrants who came to the United States whose parents just worked hard, created an environment, and they were taking it the next step forward, this idea that the American dream is alive and well.

So Alan Smolinski, who’s just a great story, now an owner with the LA Dodgers, a great fun story about the American dream. And the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia, Jeff Rosen, who’s the CEO there, kind of unpacks an idea of how to think about some constitutional principles and how does that impact your life? What do you think about all the political stuff? But we’re trying to speak at, kind of, a higher level.

(37:29):
We’re not going to argue left and right about these things, but it’s kind of more of the core beliefs. What do you believe in? And then maybe take some topics of the day as well, like technology. So Blake Masters, who’s been in the technology field, how do we think about that? As we said, social media impacts a lot of our ability to speak freely or to stop somebody else from speaking freely. How do we think about that? And what do we feel about that? How do we feel about, how do we use it ourselves in a way that’s proper and that’s helpful?

So hopefully that gives you an idea of what we’re going to talk about. It’s a fascinating area, really fun to kind of think through some of these ideas, which is, Jeff, this is what you’re talking about, right? You’re helping people to get that foundation so when they’re in this world, they know who they are, they know why they’re doing what they’re doing and they know where they’re going ultimately. And then you can have a tremendous impact on your family, on your community, your neighborhood, and those around you in a positive way.

Dr. Jeff Myers (38:43):
Well, there’s a story from the Old Testament that at Summit Ministries we love to share about the tribe of Vistakar. And all we know about them, well, we know only a couple of things about them, but one of the things we know about them is they were known as the tribe that understood the times and knew what Israel ought to do. So I’m excited that you’re bringing together this really amazing group of people to interview, let them tell their stories so that we can better understand the times and know what America ought to do or whatever nation we happen to be a part of.

Doug DeVos (39:13):
Sure, sure. Absolutely. And it’s just trying to put those things out there because America’s made up of people, right? The Constitution starts, we the people of the United States, it’s up to us. And I’ve looked through state constitutions too and say, at the end of the day, it starts with we the people. In our state of Michigan, it’s up to us. We put government in place. We express our beliefs through our votes. So what do we believe? And how do we think about these things, the issues of the day?

Dr. Jeff Myers (39:45):
Wow. Well, what a great conversation, Doug. Best with the podcast. So excited for what you’re doing. Thank you for all of the work that you’ve done to help advance freedom. And thanks for being on the show today.

Doug DeVos (39:57):
Well, Jeff, thank you so much. Just having an opportunity to talk to you and just grateful for what you do at Summit Ministries and all the work that is being put forth in the thousands of students who have been part of Summit. I know they are just doing great things in God’s world and just thank you for what you’re doing and how you’re continuing to help people find that truth so they can have that belief that allows them to move forward. Just greatly appreciate this time.

Dr. Jeff Myers (40:25):
Yeah. Well, great to partner with you. Special thanks to my guest, Doug DeVos, for coming on the program today. You can find out more about his new podcast, Believe, at thebelievepodcast.com. You can follow him on Twitter @doug_devos. The Bible says we are God’s workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. I encourage you to listen to the resources that we’ve talked about on this program, talk with wise people so that you two can be a great steward of the gifts that God has given to you. We’ll see you next week.

(41:06):
Hey everyone. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dr. Jeff Show. It’s a podcast from Summit Ministries, summit.org. Summit is a nonprofit ministry that exists to equip and support the rising generation to embrace God’s truth and champion a biblical worldview.

For nearly 60 years, Summit Ministries has been training students and those who work with students to develop, deepen and defend a biblical worldview through life-changing conferences, thoughtful church, homeschool and Christian school, curriculum books, free online resources and more. If you want to live out a biblical worldview in today’s world and you desire to instill a lifelong faith in the rising generation, visit summit.org/thedrjeffshow for more information.

Listeners, I want you to know that our podcast is on Edifi, which is a truly powerful app that brings together thousands of the best Christian podcasts in one place for your listening enjoyment. You can download it at edifi.app.

(42:10):
Be sure to share this show if you have enjoyed listening to it and leave a review, if you would, on the site where you download the show that helps more people know about the Dr. Jeff Show, and I’ll look forward to seeing you next week.