The Dr. Jeff Show Ep. 31 – Steve Green

Episode 31: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

In this episode, Dr. Jeff interviews Steve Green, the president of Hobby Lobby. The conversation covers the origins of Hobby Lobby, which started as a small picture frame manufacturing operation in a garage. Green discusses his decision to enter the family business instead of attending college. A significant portion of the interview focuses on Hobby Lobby’s legal battle against the U.S. government over the HHS mandate, which required the company to provide abortifacients in its healthcare plan, a case they ultimately won at the Supreme Court.

Green also explains his philosophy of running a business based on biblical principles, including taking care of employees by offering high wages and closing on Sundays. The discussion then shifts to his passion for the Bible, detailing the journey of founding the Museum of the Bible in Washington D.C., the challenges of acquiring authentic artifacts, and the museum’s mission. Finally, Green speaks about his new book, This Beautiful Book, which aims to explain the cohesive narrative of the Bible centered on Jesus Christ.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:00):
Thanks for tuning into the Dr. Jeff Show. This show is available on Apple, Google, Edifi, Spotify, Overdrive, Liftable and wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone. It’s Dr. Jeff. Welcome to the show. This is the show where we interview major thought leaders from many fields of influence to show how worldview changes everything.

My guest today is one of my heroes, a business leader who took a bold stand against the United States government, which he loves, but for religious freedom and he won the case. He’s also written books on the Bible, is the chairman of the board for the Museum of the Bible and the president of one of my favorite companies, Hobby Lobby. So please welcome Steve Green to the show. Steve, welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show.

Steve Green (00:49):
Thank you, Jeff. It’s great to see you.

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:51):
It’s great to see you as well. I’m really looking forward to our conversation because there’s so many things that we can talk about. I want to talk about the court case that you all had at Hobby Lobby. I want to talk about how to be a Christian in a business. I want to talk about your new book. But I really like to get a little bit of background first because one of the things I’ve loved in the conversations that you and I have had is talking about how everything you do is oriented around your family.

And that this business, this Hobby Life business, which is one of my favorite companies in the world, it’s my wife’s favorite company in the world. We give you guys a lot of business. But it’s just remarkable that this whole thing started in a garage. Can you tell us just a little bit about that before we dive into everything else? Because everybody knows your company, but they don’t really know the origin story.

Steve Green (01:53):
Yeah. So my dad was a manager of a general merchandise store. It was a company called TGNY, which is not around anymore. And he saw a design trend of decorating homes with a lot of small collages of small frames with pictures in them. So he started manufacturing many frames in 1970. It was two years later in 1972 when he rented a 1200 square foot space. And the back 600 square foot, he put the manufacturing operation and had 600 square feet in front and he opened a retail store and he called that Hobby Lobby.

So it was two entities that eventually merged. We still have manufacturing today. And then that was in 72. It was three years later, in 1975, when he quit his day job, if you will, to spend his full efforts on this new startup. That was in 75. I graduated high school in 81 and I knew what I wanted to do. So I started working in the business in 1981. At that time, we had about eight stores and we’ve been growing it ever since just a few weeks ago and continuing to add stores as we can. But it started in essence in 1972.

Dr. Jeff Myers (03:15):
How did you decide, Steve, that you wanted to go into the family business?

Steve Green (03:20):
Well, I remember sitting in the auditorium in high school and thinking as a senior, thinking, okay, I need to kind of figure out my plans for college and if I was going to go to college and thinking, would I be further ahead in the business if I went to four years of college and then went to work or if I spent four years full-time in the business? And I just felt like I would be further ahead four years down the road if I just spent that time working in the business on the job.

And so I made the decision in the auditorium that I wasn’t going to go to college because I knew the opportunity was there. Me and my brother, we worked in the summers and again, we’re unloading trucks and cleaning bathrooms and doing stock work and on weekends during the school year. So it’s just something that we had done growing up and knew that’s what I wanted to do. So I made that decision in the auditorium when I was a senior in high school.

Dr. Jeff Myers (04:31):
I meet so many successful business people who didn’t go to college, but who went directly into the business world. Is that something you would recommend to students today or is that just your unique path?

Steve Green (04:49):
Yeah. I think that everybody’s path is different. As I said, the opportunity was there for me and I knew that it wasn’t that education was going to necessarily enhance what I was going to do. As my dad has said many times in retail, it’s more application than education. Now, there are some positions within our business that would require accounting, legal, those kinds of positions need some college education. There’s some positions that don’t need that. And so I think everybody’s path is different.

I’ve got six kids and I’ve got five of them that have gone or one is in college. The other five have gone to college. I’ve got one that’s still in high school, so she’s not there yet. Everybody’s path is different. I think that today there’s another factor that people have to win on their college decision, and that’s just the biases that are built into so many of the university experiences that may not be friendly.

(06:06):
So I think everybody has to make their own decision on what their path is and where they’re going. I knew what I wanted to do. In some cases, people don’t know and let’s go and get further education and kind of figure that out. And that’s fine as well, but so everybody’s decision’s their own.

Dr. Jeff Myers (06:21):
No, I appreciate that. That makes a lot of sense, but it’s comforting, I think, to a lot of young adults to realize that the path to success doesn’t necessarily have to go through university education and all of the indoctrination and all of those kinds of things. But I wanted to talk about those biases a little bit because you, as president of Hobby Lobby, came head to head with some of these biases.

And I think I can accurately describe a little of the situation, but I want you to tell us what happened and what the outcome was. Many years back, the Obama administration had said that companies like yours must provide as part of their healthcare plan, access to abortion causing drugs. And you said, “That’s not who we are. Those are not our convictions. As a company, we do not want to do that.”

(07:24):
But the fines were ruinous. If I remember, it would have put you out of business to have to pay those fines. And so here you are stuck with, your family spent decades building this business. You’ve been clear all along that you’re building your business and treating people fantastic and all of that, but based on your Christian convictions, and then they came directly head to head with the powers that be in Washington DC. Can you kind of take it from there and tell us a little about what happened and what the outcome was?

Steve Green (08:00):
Yes. When the HHS mandate first came down, we were approached by the Beckett firm. They defended those that are facing religious freedom challenges and they saw this coming and they approached us. And at the time there were three events that could have caused the problem to go away. And I don’t remember the third one.

One of them was a Supreme Court challenge that questioned the legality of the law, and that did not strike the law down. Secondly, there was the election of President Obama. Had he not won a second term, it potentially would have resolved the issue. And there was one other situation, I don’t recall right off, that could have caused a problem to go away. So we didn’t do anything. We just waited our time.

And then after those three things didn’t happen to cause the issue to go away, Beckett came back and said, at the end of the year, which is when our plan renewed, you will be required to provide abortive agents, in essence, as well as everything else. And we provided everything in our health plan, we had a good health plan, but we did not want to provide abortive agents. And so they let us know that we are facing that and there was no other way that it was going to go away. This was a significant challenge for the business.

(09:40):
There were honest discussions of the ramifications. And as you said, the fine as best we could tell was that it would be $1.2 million per day, because it was based on how many people were in your health plan. And as we grew the company, it would only expand and grow because more people would join the healthcare plan. And so the discussion was that that was not sustainable, was part of the discussion.

So everybody got to add their thoughts and some ask questions, is there any compromise? Is there any middle ground? Is there any other thing besides having to sue our government? And we really did not have any other options that we knew of. And part of the discussion as well is the ramifications if we were to draw the line in the sand and sue our government, and the thought that there were three options that God had, and Daniel gives us two of those.

(10:40):
One was when Daniel was told that he had to eat the king’s meat, he appealed to the jailer and said, “Hey, can you give us a different diet?” The response first was no. He went back and said, “Let’s just try it for a time.” And finally, the appeal was granted and the problem was averted.That was one of God’s options. Later in life, Daniel was told he couldn’t pray to his God and faced the lion’s den and God had to show up and deliver. So the problem could be averted, God may have to show up and deliver.

But then a third option was mentioned as well that sometimes God shows up and has a different tool that he pulls out of the toolbox. Sometimes he does allow suffering. Joseph was sold into slavery. Job lost it all. Steven was stoned. Christ died on the cross. So there are times that God does allow his children to suffer loss.

(11:41):
And just because we were doing our best to serve God doesn’t mean that there might not be an opportunity that God says, “I’m going to take suffering and use that for your good.” My brother made the movie into the spear beyond the gates of Splendor, five missionaries that were speared to death. They were out doing God’s work, trying to reach an unreached tribe when that tribe speared them.

So we understood that as we were making this decision, God had different options and we didn’t know if it was going to be averted, delivered, or suffered. But when it came down to it, the decision was unanimous that we cannot be a part of taking life. And so the decision was to file suit against the government that we love.

Dr. Jeff Myers (12:34):
So what’s the end of the story? How did it all turn out?

Steve Green (12:39):
So we filed suit and it was about a two year process. We got combined with Conestoga Wood, a company out of Pennsylvania, and went to the Supreme Court and ultimately won at the Supreme Court. It was a 5-4 decision. So just one vote different, but ultimately we had a win at the Supreme Court.

Dr. Jeff Myers (13:09):
So the upshot of that is that businesses like yours, and I should say organizations like ours, Summit Ministries, which was too small and not financially in a position to be able to fight the federal government benefited from the things that you did.

Steve Green (13:29):
Yeah. And I understand that there were obviously many businesses in the same boat and ministries such as Summit that were facing the same concerns and challenges. And so the line, as I understood, was like a hundred deep. There were about a hundred different companies that were able to challenge the case. We happened to be in front of the line, partly because we had several losses to begin with. A local judge ruled against us. We appealed to the Denver District Court, and there was a three judge panel that ruled against us. The Supreme Court justice could have stepped in, chose not to.

So we asked for the full court in Denver to hear the case. They elected to hear us and gave us the injunction. But because of those losses, we were asking for an emergency injunction and sped us up and were ahead of many others and got selected by the Supreme Court to be reviewed because I think there had been a different ruling in different district courts that caused the Supreme Court to say, “We need to step in and make a call on this particular issue.”

Dr. Jeff Myers (14:49):
Well, the outcome was huge. Thank you for doing that. I’m just amazed. And your family provided cover in a lot of ways. You’re like the big brothers stepping in against the bully. That’s sort of how it felt to us at Summit Ministries.

Steve Green (15:05):
Well, it was one that, again, we would never have imagined being in a position where we would have to sue the government we love. We travel overseas enough and have a greater appreciation for the blessings that we have here in America, but we just felt like that for the government to tell us that we had to be a part of taking life was just wrong on the government’s part and we’re thankful. And everywhere we were going at that time, we had people saying that they were praying for us. And I felt like we were probably the most prayed for family. And so we owe a debt of gratitude to people all across our nation because of their prayers. So we’re grateful.

Dr. Jeff Myers (15:49):
Steve, one of the things we tell people at Summit Ministries to the students who come to our two week program is everybody should start a business as just part of what you do. Everybody should start a business because you don’t really learn how to truly serve until you have to serve in order to survive. And I’m curious just about your thoughts as a Christian businessman, you and your family are extremely generous. A lot of the earnings that come from your company go to different ministries. How do you see your mission in the world as a Christian businessman?

Steve Green (16:29):
I think of the history of our business and for the first many years, it was just an effort to try to survive, to be profitable, to be able to expand and grow. And most energies were spent on becoming a successful company. And then about 20 years into it, there was a ministry side that I saw that kind of developed. It started with putting in the newspaper that led to us closing our stores on Sunday.

I had looked at our giving at that time, and while there had been some giving and we personally had been raised to tithe of our increase, I was looking to see if we were doing that within the business. And we were short, and I felt like we needed to maybe increase our giving so that the increase of the business was tithing. And there’s about that time that a ministry project that kind of grabbed the family’s heart, we elected to have a five-year plan to give a significant amount to this ministry to meet a certain goal.

(17:44):
And so we all voted to do that, and it would cause an acceleration of our giving at a pretty rapid pace over that five years, to a point where dad later said, he remembers thinking, “We’re not going to be able to do that, but let’s give it a try.” He had said, “You can now give God.” And he felt like God at one point said, “Well, have you tried?” And so this was in essence a way of trying.

And so we actually met that goal and we have continued to accelerate that giving to a point where several years ago, the family made the decision to give half of our profits. We were able to give half of our profits away. So it was 20 years into the business when this ministry side developed. And not that every business is able to do that, but we were blessed to a point where we were able to do that and continued to give half of our profits, which only accelerated the excitement to make our business as profitable as we can make it.

(18:51):
We want to expand and grow and be as profitable as we can because we know that the more profit we make, the more we’re able to give, and there’s more that we want to be able to do in the way of ministry. So it really compounded itself and the excitement only grew. And it also, I can remember thinking, I remember in the early days when I would go to work and we’re just working to make a living and do things as God would have us to do.

But I also remember thinking then I would go to church and I’d volunteer, teach a class, run the soundboard or whatever, and thinking, “Okay, there’s some ministry and then I go to work.” And then it just kind of became very clear as the ministry side grew that this is my ministry. This is the ministry that God’s given to us, not just indirectly, but directly as well. And so it just makes it where you want to do the best you can do.

Dr. Jeff Myers (19:52):
But Hobby Lobby is that you want your company to grow, you want to become more profitable, but you refuse to do that at the expense of the people who work for you, people who work there receive a good wage and good benefits. And I’m curious what your calculus is and how you decide to work on being more profitable.

Steve Green (20:14):
Well, it goes to the very first principle we have is, a statement of purpose is that we want to operate our business according to biblical principles, which means you take care of your employees, that it’s a service model. Our employees are here to serve our customers. Our corporate office is to serve our stores.

And so for us to take care of our employees, we have to make sure we have good benefits, a good wage that’s competitive in the market. Right now, we are starting our full-time employees at $17 an hour. We started years ago with bringing somebody on at a minimum wage, depending on the market. Some markets demanded you had to pay more. And then we started saying, “No, we want to increase that to nine.” And then every year went up from 9 to 10, 11, 12. I think when we went to $15 an hour, we started a cost of living increase.

(21:16):
And then a year or so ago, we were at 16 something. We went ahead and jumped to $17 for our full-time employees. And we are at a position where we can do that. There’s a time when we couldn’t, but it also serves us well as well, because we are only as good as the employees that we have. And when we are able to pay more, then we are able to attract a better employee.

So while we’re taking care of our employees, they do a better job of taking care of us. And so it’s a win-win when you can afford it. There are some businesses that, they can’t afford that, because the margins are just not there, but we’re blessed and at a position where we’re able to do that, and it is exciting to be able to do that for our employees. And so again, it’s as we do well for employees, they do well for us.

Dr. Jeff Myers (22:15):
Yeah. And you close the stores on Sundays so that people actually have time for a real Sabbath.

Steve Green (22:23):
And we have many people that come to us because of that. They are in the retail business and they’re twenty four seven and it is just a heavy workload. And so when they know they’ve got that day off, then it causes some of the best to say, “That’s what I want because my family is important.”

And we tell our employees, “Your family is more important. If you can’t run this business in the allotted time, then we don’t want you.” We want those that are able to do that so that they can go home and spend time with their family because the family is more important than our business and we want our employees to prioritize their family and by closing Sunday, that helps them be able to do that.

Dr. Jeff Myers (23:21):
Yeah, that’s huge. Well, thank you for the model that you set there. And I know people who are watching, who are running a business, that gives them something to aspire to. Can we organize the business so that we can eventually be able to do that for our employees and see that the business is really about the people?

Steve Green (23:43):
Yeah. If you’re a policeman or if you work at a hospital or something like that, they have to be available, but in our business, it works well. We can serve our customer, we can serve our employee, and we’re glad that we can do that.

Dr. Jeff Myers (24:04):
Yeah. I wanted to kind of pivot a little bit because you’re passionate about the Bible and getting people to know the Bible and see the history of the Bible. And a lot of the earnings from the Hobby Lobby Company have gone into the Museum of the Bible in Washington DC, which you designed and built and a lot of people on that team, but you’re the chairman of that. And I’m curious, why that? Because I just think of the logistical aspect, not only of building a museum, but of just acquiring all of these artifacts. That seems like a pretty massive additional hobby for Hobby Lobby.

Steve Green (24:50):
Yeah. And the way I’ve described it is that, lovingly say that God tricked us into it, it wasn’t something that we were, it was on our plan to do. It wasn’t a foreign concept. My brother opened a Christian bookstore called Mardell and had, throughout the years, made a comment that it would be neat to put in a Bible museum, but there was no agenda to do that.

When we were approached by a group that wanted to put a Bible museum in Dallas, they asked if we would help find a facility for them for a Bible museum. And I said, “Well, if the right deal came up, we would consider acquiring a building for them.” Nothing showed up that would work, but they did mention an artifact that we could buy at a good deal. And I said, “Well, we might be willing to buy that for your museum.” And that artifact never became available.

(25:47):
The family didn’t agree to sell it from what I understood, but it opened the door for them to start asking around. They knew where the auction houses, the dealers, the collectors were. And so we started acquiring, never having an idea that we would be able to acquire as much as we did as rapidly as we did. Our first artifact was bought in 2009, the economy was struggling, and that is what presented a lot of opportunities.

We had a college at Cambridge that had an artifact that they had studied, was sitting on their shelf, their endowment was down, and they decided to sell this artifact at auction. And we acquired it at Christie’s or Sotheby’s One, and it’s a key item within our collection. It’s called the Kodex Clamiki Rescriptus that some may be familiar with. And then there was a businessman that had collected for 30 years, and he had a 10,000 piece collection and sold us his whole collection.

(26:46):
Partly he was about ready to retire. He loved our vision, the economy was down, so he sold us his collection. And it was that collection, I think, that caused the family to say, “We’ve been entrusted with this collection. We have the resources to get it started. We have a collection that’s growing, and the guys that wanted a museum in Dallas really didn’t have either.”

And so we felt like we needed to step in and make sure the dream became a reality, and it became our project. And so it’s been an exciting journey. It’s a learning journey and one that, before we got started, wouldn’t have imagined being on, but we just really felt like that, and we saw time and time again, God going before us and felt like God has put us on this journey.

Dr. Jeff Myers (27:36):
Yeah. When I think of the collecting of artifacts, and I think I’m sure it would be true in the art world as well, there’s so much happening and it happens so quickly that I’m sure people are offering you things that are fake or that they’re, I know there’s a process. Can you just describe that, how you guys go through and decide what is worth acquiring and what’s sort of shady?

Steve Green (28:07):
Yeah. And that’s a learning process. You start with the best experts that you know of. And we made mistakes early on and some may have read about that. We would never intentionally buy anything looted or forged, yet we have both. And so as we learn in the process, you have to find and seek out some experts. And that’s not something where you can just look up in the phone book and find who’s an antiquity expert. It’s a limited area.

And I think as we have learned in this process, we’ve really been able to find some experts. But for example, in the area of forgeries, there are some leading scholars that can be duped by good forgeries. And we’ve had some that we’ve done some very expensive research on some of the items to determine that they in fact were fake. And so it’s one where there’s a buyer beware challenge.

(29:13):
You just have to do your best. And like I said, we’ve made mistakes and hopefully we’ve learned from those and we have better experts, but you just have to constantly be on guard and you have to, to some degree, rely on the experts that you have available.

Dr. Jeff Myers (29:31):
And some of these experts, Steve, are not necessarily people who believe in the Bible from a faith standpoint, but they’re experts in antiquity. And so you kind of pulled together this international group of people who it’s pretty diverse.

Steve Green (29:50):
Yeah, it is. I mean, even in the biblical studies world, there are many of the scholars that are not friendly to the Bible, which is really unique in that space that you would think that a university professor that’s teaching the Bible would be somewhat friendly. In some cases they’re not.

So same thing with experts, whether it be legal experts or those that are buying and selling dealers, some of them that’s just a business for them. And so it is an interesting world. It’s a fairly small world as well, but one that you have to be careful, just as in any world. I mean, there’s good and bad in every industry. And so you just have to do the best you can and learn from the mistakes that you make.

Dr. Jeff Myers (30:42):
Yeah. Well, I’m so grateful that you did that and that you sought out all of those people. I love the Bible Museum. I’ve been there a number of times. I’ve taken lots and lots of our summit ministry students through the different exhibits as well. And you’ve got one coming up, I think, on science in the Bible, sort of a new exhibit. I’m curious, because I know a lot of people are super interested in science right now with the virus and all of that. Give us a little insight.

Steve Green (31:10):
Yeah, we do. We’ve been working on that one. It has presented a challenge as well. We want to take a non-secretary position. We’re not here to espouse a faith. And it’s amazing how much in the science world there is a faith element that is added to that. Whether they realize it or not, some of it they refer to as settled science, but in many cases it’s not. And so when we try to say, we’re here to present the facts, and for science, it’s the idea that it is a biblical worldview that is the most fertile for the sciences to be developed and is really the history of the sciences.

So there’s a story to be told there, and we want to do it well. Because of COVID, things have been delayed and pushed out, but we’re still working on an exhibit. And as a matter of fact, I was working on that earlier today. So we want to tell the story and do it well and cause people to realize that, again, the Christian faith is the inspiration for many of the sciences historically.

Dr. Jeff Myers (32:25):
You and your wife, Jackie, are authors as well as running a business and raising a family, which is remarkable. And a couple of the books that you’ve got, I read this dangerous book, which I thought was fascinating because it not only talked about the Bible and the people who risked their lives, even cost them their lives like William Tyndall, but you also weave in the stories of how these different artifacts were acquired, your own family story, all of those kinds of things.

But you just wrote a new book called This Beautiful Book. And I’d love for you to just tell us about that because I think everybody who’s watching or listening to this may want to make that part of their summer reading.

Steve Green (33:14):
Yeah. So this dangerous book was really the journey of building the museum. And it was kind of three stories. It was a bit of me and my wife’s, how the Bible influenced our lives, how the bit of the story of the Bible and how we got involved in building the Bible museum. So those kind of three stories interwoven.

This Beautiful Book is more of an effort to try to tell the story of the Bible. The museum, we look at the Bible in three ways, the Bible’s history, its impact, and its narrative. The history is looking at, somewhat you could say the question would be, is this book true? I can’t prove it all to be true, but let me show you the evidence for this book, archeological, the manuscript evidence, the effort to finalize the translation of the Bible in every language of the world, all of that incorporated on the history floor.

(34:03):
The impact, here’s how is this book good, becomes the question. And for some that say it’s been the scourge of the earth, and again, you can believe what you want, but let me show you how that this book has been good for our world in every area of life. The narrative floor is an effort to try to let a person know the basic story of the Bible.

I was at an event in New York City with Tim Keller. He had some journalists from some of the leading outfits there in New York. One of them made the comment. There are people in my office that don’t know what the Easter holiday is for. And I’m sitting here thinking that is the story of the Bible. You could argue that’s what it is all pointing to from Genesis chapter three, even from creation where scripture tells us that Jesus was there, all things were created for and by him to the Exodus and the Passover story.

(35:01):
And I mean, just throughout every book of the Bible, you could see how it is pointing to the need for what Christ did on the cross. And so where do you start with the person that knows nothing? And the narrative floor is an effort to try to say, “Here’s the basic story of the Bible.” And that’s what this beautiful book is doing. And I’m trying to show that this book tells a story. And I do it with five main characters, Abraham, Moses, King David, the prophet Isaiah and Jesus.

Three of them, Moses, Abraham and David were given a promise and Isaiah’s prophecy of Isaiah 53. And what I’m showing is that those promises and the one prophecy are all pointing and fulfilled in Jesus. And it’s not me. And then I go on to explain how that is the scripture that says that. And I look at three messages and a meeting, Stephen, Peter, and Paul’s messages and the meeting that Philip had with Ethiopian Eunic, who happens to be reading Isaiah 53.

(36:07):
So the New Testament tells us that the three promises and the prophecy are fulfilled in Jesus. That’s the story of the Bible. And when you consider that here is a book that has taken 1,400 years or so to create, that it was written by 40 authors from all different walks of life, and yet it tells a story that makes this book unlike anything out there. And so This Beautiful Book, I’m just trying to point that out to show how incredible of a book we have.

Imagine starting a book today and somebody’s not going to finish it until 1400 years from today and 40 different writers are going to add to it and it make any sense at all. That’s what we have in the Bible. It is an incredible book, unlike anything else. And that’s what I’m trying to get across in This Beautiful Book. Here’s its story and how incredible it is that it makes up a story.

Dr. Jeff Myers (37:07):
Yeah. So believers and non-believers alike are going to find that fascinating, but the center of, I remember the Anglican priest John Stott said, Christ is at the center. All else is circumference.

Steve Green (37:20):
Yep. Yeah. And many are doing a good job at trying to do that. There are many scholars though, biblical scholars that will try to deconstruct. That’s one of the ways that they’re trying to denigrate scripture and try to disprove scriptures as they try to deconstruct it. And I’m trying to say, no, I want you to, It’s not my perspective. I want you to understand the Bible from the Bible’s perspective. It is claiming to be a story.

So you can try to tear it apart all you want, but when we are honest with the Bible story, that’s what it is. So there are some atheists that have argued and have bestsellers that are arguing that God of the Bible is genocidal, misogynistic, and go on and on about how bad God is. And so one of the points that I make in the scripture is I said, “You’re reinterpreting what scripture says.” That is not what scripture says.

(38:19):
Scripture says that the God of the Bible is a loving, caring God. If we’re honest with scripture, we have to take scripture at what it says and not reinterpret scripture, which many will try to do in a way to defame scripture because they don’t like it. So anyway, that’s part of what I go into in my book, This Beautiful Book, as well.

Dr. Jeff Myers (38:42):
I’m so glad you tackled all of that. And I’m thinking of the young adults who are watching this or listening to this right now, who are moving in/out of the university, into the workforce. Just from your perspective, could you just give a word of advice to them in closing?

Steve Green (38:58):
Well, I think that our world is full of truth and lies. And in our popular culture, it’s amazing how many lies are being broadcast freely and that agenda is being pushed and is prevalent in the universities from what I’m told. Not that I’ve been there, experienced it, but I think that we have to be good judges and recognize that there is an enemy as scripture says, and he is doing what he does. He is a liar.

And our enemy is not flesh and blood, but it is a spiritual battle. And there are lies being bombarded and we need to be good judges of that and fill ourself with the truth and we know where to go for truth, and that is scripture. Psalms chapter one gives us a precious promise that for those that meditate on God’s word day and night, what he does will be successful.

(40:02):
And that success is God’s definition of success, not necessarily man’s definition of success. And so when we understand that true success in life is to the degree that we follow God and his word and apply his principles to our life, then that will cause us to be able to look back on our life and say, “I lived my life well.”

Dr. Jeff Myers (40:25):
So good. What a great word to close. Steve, thank you for your time today. So grateful that you came on the show.

Steve Green (40:35):
Enjoyed it. Thank you for the time and wishing you well, Jeff.

Dr. Jeff Myers (40:39):
Thank you. Thank you to Steve Green for joining us on the Dr. Jeff Show today. Many guests have used their voices to stand for truth and even at great cost, even against the government when it unnecessarily oversteps its bounds into our lives. And Steve Green shows us how to live boldly, but graciously, and how to use your influence as a business owner to speak out about the issues that matter most. So wherever you are in life, you can stand for what is true and your voice will encourage others. We’ll see you next week.

Hey, everyone. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Dr. Jeff Show. It’s a podcast from Summit Ministries, summit.org. Summit is a nonprofit ministry that exists to equip and support the rising generation to embrace God’s truth and champion a biblical worldview for nearly 60 years.

Summit Ministries has been training students and those who work with students to develop, deepen and defend a biblical worldview through life-changing conferences, thoughtful church, homeschool and Christian school, curriculum books, free online resources and more. If you want to live out a biblical worldview in today’s world and you desire to instill a lifelong faith in the rising generation, visit summit.org/thedrJeffshow for more information.

(42:03):
Listeners, I want you to know that our podcast is on Edifi, which is a truly powerful app that brings together thousands of the best Christian podcasts in one place for your listening enjoyment. You can download it at edifi.app. Be sure to share the show if you have enjoyed listening to it and leave a review, if you would, on the site where you download the show, that helps more people know about the Dr. Jeff Show, and I’ll look forward to seeing you next week.