Summit Graduate Interview with Liana Stovall – Justice & The Biblical Worldview

Episode 102: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

This episode of the Dr. Jeff Show features Liana Stovall, a political science student at the University of North Georgia who shares her transformative experience with Summit Ministries. Initially resistant and influenced by Marxist ideology, Stovall attended Summit Georgia against her will as her parents’ “last ditch effort” before college. During the program, a seminar on Marxism challenged her worldview, leading to a profound intellectual and spiritual transformation.

Stovall later attended Summit’s semester program in Colorado, which she credits with preserving her faith, saying “if I hadn’t gone to semester, I probably wouldn’t be a Christian anymore.” Now serving as a congressional mobilizer with the International Justice Mission, she advocates against human trafficking and plans to pursue a law degree to serve victims of trafficking and forced labor.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:02):
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show podcast. It’s available on Apple, Google, Spotify, Edifi, Liftable, or wherever you get your podcasts. And please, if you like the show, take a moment to review it on your favorite platform that lets people know about these interviews with guests, major thought leaders who show how our worldview changes everything.

My guest today attended a two week Summit conference in Georgia in 2021, and then went on to study at the Summit’s semester program in Pagosa Springs, Colorado before beginning our undergraduate program at the University of North Georgia. So she’ll be graduating this summer with a degree in political science and plans to pursue a law degree. She currently serves as a congressional mobilizer with the International Justice Mission and uses her platform and national speech and debate to educate and advocate for the anti-trafficking movement.

You’re going to love hearing this story. She hopes to use her legal education and her passion for justice to serve victims of human trafficking and forced labor. This is an inspiring and aspiring young woman. Please welcome Liana Stovall to the show. Liana Stovall, welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show podcast.

Liana Stovall (01:18):
Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I’m so honored.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:21):
Well, recently we did a radio show together. I was in New York, you were in your school, and we had a chance to talk to people from all across the country about your Summit experience. And I was so moved by what you said and how you said it that I thought, I really want Liana to come on this podcast and just tell your Summit story a little bit. And I’d love it if people would say, oh, I think I should sign up for the summit, or I have a child or a grandchild maybe who should consider this experience. So anyway, I’m really grateful. Thanks for taking the time.

Liana Stovall (02:02):
Yeah, absolutely. I’m grateful as well for the opportunity. I love getting to testify about how the Lord worked in my life through Summit.

Dr. Jeff Myers (02:09):
Well, I remember Liana when you and I met because we were at the Summit in Georgia and we had an interesting interaction there, which I just thought was fantastic. Maybe you could tell a little bit about that. And then we want to also talk about what your overall Summit experience was like and what Summit semester was like for you, because you’ve also been part of the gap year program at Summit. Yes. And lots of students are thinking about doing that for this year as well. But yeah, talk about that time at Summit, Georgia. What happened leading up to it and what happened in that interaction from your perspective?

Liana Stovall (02:51):
So for a little bit of background leading into Summit, I was classically educated and I had read The Communist Manifesto for the first time in high school. And so I had bought into this premise about the Marxist worldview and everything is about economics. And so I walked into Summit Georgia actually against my will. This was my parents’ last ditch effort to turn me around before they sent me off to college. I wanted to pursue a degree in political science.

And so I went to Summit with a very arrogant spirit and I was very on guard, ready to fight anyone who came in my peripheral vision. And so when I went to the seminar on Marxism, I was sitting there with my arms crossed, I know exactly what you have to say, and in 45 minutes you deconstructed what I had tried to justify for three years.

(03:39):
And there is certainly a question of how much does a 17, 18-year-old person understand about socioeconomics and that kind of thing. But I mean, it had seeped its way all the way to my worldview where it deconstructed the way that I understood the church and the family. And it flipped everything because the worldview was not topical. Worldview was the framework of reality, and I hadn’t quite understood that yet.

So I remember there were two Q and A sessions that followed that seminar. The first one, I was just there to listen because I was confused and I was honestly kind of terrifying to have everything you’ve ever known taken out from under you. And so I remember another student raised their hand and they asked you, what do you think about people who call themselves Christian socialists? And you said anyone who calls themselves a Christian socialist and hasn’t sold everything they own is a hypocrite.

(04:27):
And other people in the room thought that was hilarious. And I was sitting there feeling completely gutted because that was what I had staked my whole reputation and my passion for justice on. And that’s the big thing about the Marxist worldview.

It’s faulty, but the reason that it’s so prevalent is because it appeals to our sense of justice. And so if you don’t have a good understanding of biblical justice, then you can buy into it really quickly. It seems to make sense and it seems to meet that face validity, but if you really dig into it, it doesn’t satisfy every question that we have about the world and everything in it.

And then at that second Q and A session, that’s when I sat, I was actually in the chair right next to you. I did that on purpose and the room was filled with over, I think there were probably close to a hundred students in that room fighting tooth and nail to be able to hear you speak. And you fortunately called on my hand and I said, I gave you my story. I think I was talking a thousand miles an hour, and I forgot that there were other people in the room to be honest.

And I said, you just called me a hypocrite and I needed to hear that because you have completely changed my worldview, and I now better understand that my understanding of justice is not biblical. So that was my experience at Summit Georgia.

Dr. Jeff Myers (05:38):
Well, I don’t remember the first Q and A very well. I remember saying that, look, if you want to be a Christian socialist, you’ve got to actually follow through. You’ve got to sell everything. But I very much remember the second Q and A where you were sitting right there and said, you called me out. Really? Okay.

But I thought that was very brave of you because when you’re sitting there and there are a hundred other students there, and their experiences are so different, and I sensed the room change at that moment where it wasn’t just your question, it was your question sort of being a proxy for all of the questions that we have. We need to be willing to explore the truth, even if it encounters in a harsh way, what we have come to stake our reputation or our thoughts or our worldview on. So I want to say thank you for being willing to step out and do that.

Liana Stovall (06:46):
Yeah, absolutely. I was definitely a little bit nervous about doing that because I had had enough conversations. This was at the end of week one, so I’d had enough conversations to know that I was definitely in the minority. So I was like, am I putting a target on my back? But I had the opposite experience, actually. And that leads into, Summit’s whole premise is that we have truth with community.

So because I had been honest and vulnerable about where I was at and admitting that I was wrong, I had a lot of people who would just randomly walk up to me and be like, hey, I listened to you at the Q & A session, let’s talk about it. And we would just sit down and talk about it. And that really helped me work through some of the nuances of what my questions were and that sort of thing. So having that truthful and graceful community come alongside me through that moment of honesty was really, really powerful.

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:28):
Yeah. Well, I’m thinking about a lot of young adults who maybe could benefit from a summit experience, but might be resistant like you were describing yourself and thinking, I just don’t dunno if I want to go to this. I don’t want to confront these people. I just don’t want to think about all of that. What would you say to a young person who’s kind of in that position, they’re sort of on the fence as to whether this is an experience they ought to have?

Liana Stovall (08:01):
Yeah, I think that we are living in such times where we can’t afford to not confront what we really believe. To say, I can’t confront these things and I can’t afford to be wrong, is to be intellectually irresponsible, but also just inconsistent. And so I think that you would be doing yourself a disservice to not confront these things. If you’re wrong, you’re wrong. But if you’re right, you’re right. And you have no way of finding that out if you don’t get over yourself and go pursue it with other people. If the marketplace of ideas is a real thing, and we know that it is, and there’s really no harm in trying to work it out with other people.

Dr. Jeff Myers (08:48):
And to know that the people there, they love you and that you’re not, some people talk about safe spaces as in being safe to not have to think about something that would trigger you. But I guess what we’re trying to do is create a place that’s safe to think and to grow.

Liana Stovall (09:09):
Yes. Yeah, I think some of that is a safe space in the sense that you’re describing because people love you enough to not let you sit in your sinfulness or in your wrongness if they see something that is untruthful or unbiblical, they love you enough to bring it up and have a conversation with you about it.

Dr. Jeff Myers (09:29):
Yeah. I’ve always been a little bit curious. We talked that day and then we talked later when you came to Summit semester, but I’ve been a little bit curious, and I don’t think I’ve ever asked you what it was about that Marxist worldview talk that kind of confronted where you were. I mean, I know you mentioned that you had read the Communist Manifesto, and as you read it, it seemed to have made a lot of sense. But what was it that happened? Because I think there are a lot of people who just don’t believe that one talk can really make that much of a difference in somebody’s life.

Liana Stovall (10:08):
So to be clear, the Marxist talk did not completely answer every question I have. It took a lot of time and a lot of thought even now in college, still pursuing certain nuances of the question because it’s complicated. But like I said before, the Marist worldview appealed to my sense of justice. And so that’s why I had bought into it hook and sinker.

But the Marxist talk that you gave that met all of those questions that I thought the Marxist worldview answered, and you showed how they were insufficient and they weren’t long-term and they’ve never worked, frankly, they have never worked. You can identify problems about inequality, but if you don’t have a sufficient answer for them, then your worldview is faulty.

And so I think what really made it click for me was understanding that not everything can be solved with economics. We can’t measure people with numbers and data because it’s a lot more complex than that. And the Christian worldview and the biblical sense of justice is the only worldview that sufficiently answers those questions about true equality and true justice. And so that’s really what the change was for me, is the understanding that not everything is actually about economics. And to say that it is, is to misrepresent the entire world.

Dr. Jeff Myers (11:18):
Yeah, I appreciate that. Well, at Summit, we talk about theology, philosophy, ethics, biology, psychology, sociology, politics, law, economics and history. And I’ve always thought I like that outline. Those topics were given to me by David Noebel, the founder of Summit Ministries. And I just took those categories just the way they were and said, well, let’s continue to explore them.

And my first thought was, well, this gives us 10 interesting ways to think about everything that we’re trying to think about. If a Marxist says it’s all about economics or a Secularist says it’s all about science or whatever worldview, it’s all about one thing, that we are actually broadening our thinking rather than narrowing it. But I guess, I don’t know if I’ve ever shared with you the story.

Those 10 subject areas came to the mind of Dr. David Noebel when he was a college student reading the collected works of Marx and Lennon, and he said, look, Karl Marx said, or in Lennon, they said, if we want to win the battle of ideas, we have to take over the seminaries. We have to take over the philosophy departments. And he just went down through those things and wondered, is there a Christian worldview of these subjects? That was really the beginning of his interaction with a Christian worldview, was having to confront a Marxist worldview, which I just think is kind of a cool addition to the story.

Liana Stovall (12:46):
Yeah, yeah. That is definitely the first time I’ve heard that, but that is very interesting for sure. Thank you for sharing.

Dr. Jeff Myers (12:53):
Well, tell us a little bit about when you came to Summit for two weeks. You said that you had a lot of conversations with other people. What was the overall experience like for you? Because we’ve just been talking about that one talk and that one interaction, but I want to try to paint a picture for students who might be thinking about coming.

Liana Stovall (13:18):
Yeah, the overall experience was kind of throwing me off my rhythm because I had been to church camps before and that’s what I thought that I was going to. I think Summit is unique in that it treats young adults as young adults, and so there was a lot of liberty to engage with the staff. I got a lot of incredible relationships with the staff from my Summit conference. I’m still friends with a lot of them.

And so we were able to engage with them about all these different topics that the conversation was ongoing. And it was really unique to me that no one would shy away from hard questions. And so that was reiterated to me over and over, both in conversation and also verbally. I will never forget Tripp Almon opening up our session with the statement, God is not afraid of your questions.

(14:05):
And I was like, we’ll see, but he’s not absolutely not afraid of our questions. And so for me, God revealed himself to me in ways that made sense to me because I was definitely on my way out the door at the church. And so in terms of the academic side of it, obviously he revealed himself in ways to me that made sense.

But he also gave me people in my life that I really needed to love me through. I was exiting a difficult season of life. My family had just moved back to the state of Georgia from Florida, and I had to have some issues with college resolved. I had been planning to go to the University of Florida, but since we left Florida, I didn’t want to pay out-state tuition. So my college was kind of up in the air.

And so I was kind of going through it, and I tend to be really defensive about interpersonal relationships, and so God put people in my life. My small group leader was so wonderful and so patient with me. And so having those people who love me when it wasn’t very easy to love me was probably one of the most significant aspects of my experience at the conference.

Dr. Jeff Myers (15:09):
Now, how did you decide to go from a two week Summit experience to spending an entire semester during a gap year program with Summit?

Liana Stovall (15:19):
Yeah, I was having a conversation with Tripp and Megan Almon about church hurt, and we ended up talking about everything under the sun, and they both encouraged me to pursue semester, and I had never heard of it. I probably wouldn’t have been interested if I had been going to college, but I think it’s a good thing that wasn’t on the table for me.

So I think the Lord divinely ordained the steps for me to be able to go to semester, because in retrospect, I tell people now, if I hadn’t gone a semester, I probably wouldn’t be a Christian anymore, because semester gave me an opportunity to wrestle with the questions that we didn’t have time for at the conference. Because, the conference, it answers a lot of questions, but then it stirs up even more than you had before. And so the way that I kind of made that decision, it just felt like the next right step for me.

So I remember going home and I went to get ice cream with my parents, and I had this whole proposal in my head and I was like, alright, guys, I’ve narrowly escaped the jaws of communism. If we want to keep me out of the jaws of communism, I need to go to Colorado.

Dr. Jeff Myers (16:26):
I love it.

Liana Stovall (16:27):
And it worked. It worked. Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (16:29):
As a parent, I would find that very persuasive.

Liana Stovall (16:33):
They definitely found that to be persuasive because yeah, it was very persuasive to keep me out of the jaws of communism. So anyway, so I gave them my proposal. They were like, we’ll set up an interview and then if the Lord wills it, then that’s what we’ll do. And so I had my interview with Tripp. It went really well, and I was accepted into the program.

The biggest concern was honestly finance, but the Lord, he owns the cattle on a thousand hills, and he made it happen, especially through the generosity of Summit donors. That is a huge reason that I was able to go was because of Summit donors who sponsor kids to be able to go to these programs.

Dr. Jeff Myers (17:15):
Yeah. Well, I know a lot of those donors are listening and watching, and they will be very encouraged to hear that, to be able to put a name and a face with a contribution that the Lord led them to make. So thank you for mentioning that. I’d love to absolutely just hear a little bit about what you’re currently working on, what your plans are, because I think they’re fascinating and it really, you’re preparing to do something that, well, you mentioned escaping the jaws of communism, but what you’re preparing to do is a very big task that I think is scary to a lot of people, and I’d love for you to share about your plans.

Liana Stovall (18:03):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I’m currently wrapping up my undergraduate program at the University of North Georgia. I’m getting my degree in political science and I’m going to be pursuing a law degree, Lord willing, at the University of Georgia because I would like to aid victims of human trafficking and forced labor. So what that looks like in terms of my life right now, a lot of what I do as a student mobilizer is just education and advocacy. Those are the two biggest things that I do right now as a student.

And so the big message that I try to emphasize over and over and over is helping people understand that the problem is much more prevalent than we realize, but we do have the power and the position to see human trafficking, and in our lifetime, it is not an impossible task. And so I do a lot of talks.

(18:50):
A lot of what I do is just interpersonal, but I also have a lot of platforms through the International Justice Mission. They give me a lot of advocacy resources, and so I work with groups of students on my campus and on other campuses as well. I’ve had a lot of really cool opportunities to work across the state of Georgia with mobilization efforts. We do a lot of congressional writing sessions where we just spam Congress and our representatives with letters saying, you need to get it together because frankly, the lack of mobilization on this issue from our legislators is unacceptable. They’re completely without excuse.

And so we do a lot of policy reform recommendations and that sort of thing. So we do a lot of petition to our representatives, but one of the really cool things that’s come out of this, we actually have one of our students who worked with us on IJM efforts at the University of North Georgia, she ended up interning at the Capitol, and she was able to personally lobby for the legislation that’s on the docket. So it’s been really cool seeing how all of these people end up taking what they learn here through justice and taking it in other places. So yeah, that’s the majority of what I do is advocacy and education.

Dr. Jeff Myers (19:56):
Yeah. Well, I think when people hear that more people are in slavery today than have ever been in slavery in history and they hear about sex trafficking, this all sounds so shocking and overwhelming that to think that it could actually end in our lifetimes is hopeful, but sounds, that’s a big promise. How do you encourage people to see that?

And I guess there are two questions, and the second one is, what kinds of steps do we need to be thinking of? I mean, we have legislators, we vote, we have those kinds of things. There are also possible legal avenues, people who have a legal trainee, but then there are other kinds of things. So I’d love for you to share a little bit about that mission.

Liana Stovall (20:49):
Yeah, absolutely. So I think the biggest thing that people understand tangibly is online exploitation. That is probably one of the most prevalent ways that we have trafficking in the United States. That’s primarily where my arena is, domestic and exploitation within the US. So a lot of what people don’t understand are access points, and how do these things happen?

And so I remember a conversation that I had recently with a mom who, she wasn’t quite getting it. I don’t remember how we got on the topic, but we were sitting there talking about child exploitation and she just could not understand how children could get roped into these things. She’s like, who’s watching over them? And so I helped her understand that you send your child to a sleepover and you don’t have any verification of who’s at that sleepover. That’s typically an access point to online exploitation, and you would have no idea.

(21:39):
So helping people understand access points is a really good way to help them understand preventative measures, especially for their children. When you make it real for someone and understand it can happen to you, you are not immune from the evil that we have in this country. So I think, yeah, helping people understand how it affects them personally is really, really important because we talk about it in these very broad terms. So when you make it personal, you say, here’s how you are participating and here’s how you can make preventative measures really, really helps people understand how to be active in the anti-trafficking movement.

Dr. Jeff Myers (22:13):
You mentioned legislation. Is that legislation that’s currently before Congress and being considered?

Liana Stovall (22:19):
Yes, actually I’m doing a lot of policy reform recommendations right now. So there’s two really big ones going on right now. So one is existing legislation, so section two 30 of the Communications Decency Act, which is actually, it was before the Supreme Court yesterday about whether or not we sue tech companies for harmful speech that was given by third parties. And so the language in that piece of legislation is absolutely abhorrent because there’s no real statutory definitions. It’s very inadequate to do what it’s designed to do because it was written in 1996 and it’s overdue for a makeover. So that’s why it’s before the Supreme Court.

And then there is currently a piece of legislation that was proposed in, I believe it was January of 2022, so it’s been debated on Congress’s floor for about a year now. It’s called the Earn It Act, and the Earn It Act serves to eliminate abusive and rampant neglect of interactive technologies. And so it kind of serves to do the opposite and counteract with Section 230 that I just mentioned isn’t doing. So it’s kind of a way of legal accountability is what this act is for.

Dr. Jeff Myers (23:32):
Okay. Well, that gives us a couple of things we can follow. I think a lot of people have been following two 30 and before the Supreme Court that’s getting a lot of coverage. But what about states people live in different states and there are things they can do at the state and possibly even the local level as well. Talk about that.

Liana Stovall (23:56):
Yeah, I think I actually had a conversation with my mentor about this exact issue because it’s frankly not talked about enough. What we can do about at the local level. So on the state level, a lot of states have human trafficking task forces here in the state of Georgia. We have one, and they have different groups that have different goals. It’s purely volunteer work, but it’s an intentional collaborative effort to work on human trafficking efforts in your state. So a lot of states have those task forces that you can be a member of, and it doesn’t really require a lot of time, but it is an intentional piece of work that you can do at the state level.

Dr. Jeff Myers (24:29):
And then at the local level, there are a lot of initiatives in different police departments if they’re able to get the funding, which sometimes is available from nonprofit sources. So people can encourage their police forces to take advantage of those opportunities and especially the education that they need to have.

Liana Stovall (24:51):
Yes, absolutely. A lot of discouragement is expressed from local law enforcement because they don’t know that there’s even until you tell them. So if you mobilize your community and you say, this is what we want, help us do it. They have the resources, they just need the people to do it. So having that connection between people and resources is really, really important.

Dr. Jeff Myers (25:10):
Yeah. Well, I appreciate your talking about that. I’m excited for what God has you doing and being an advocate for those who are vulnerable. I see your heart for justice that you came to summit with, and I see that it’s blossomed in a new way, in a very intentional and powerful way. So I’ve told you this before, but I just want you to know I’m cheering for you.

Liana Stovall (25:40):
Thank you. Thank you. I really appreciate that. That’s very encouraging.

Dr. Jeff Myers (25:42):
Well, if you had just to say one final word to students who are thinking about coming to Summit this summer, they might be on the fence, what would you say?

Liana Stovall (25:59):
There is hope for our generation despite messages of hopelessness and that hope comes from the truth that changes everything.

Dr. Jeff Myers (26:09):
Wow. Thank you. Thanks so much for your time. I really, really appreciate your taking this time.

Liana Stovall (26:16):
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Jeff Myers (26:19):
Thank you to my guest today, Liana Stovall, for coming on the show. What a great story. You could see how a two week program can change somebody’s life. You can see how even just one hour where one interaction in a two week program like that can change someone’s life. Well, Liana would also want you to know that if you’re interested in the international justice mission that she spoke about, you can visit ijm.org. Liana’s heart wants to rescue the millions here and around the world trapped in slavery, and that’s a biblical mission.

As the prophet Micah declares, he has shown you, I mortal what is good, what does the Lord require of you to act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God made that passion rub off on us and all of the pursuits that we have. Thank you for tuning in. We’ll see you next week.

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