On today’s episode we’re honored to have Alisa Childers on the show to discuss what it looks like to raise resilient kids in a culture that often tempts them with ‘progressive Christianity,’ false views of the gospel, & destructive ways of life. Let’s listen in!
For more practical, biblically based resources for parents, check out Summit.org/parents.
Episode 8: Summary & Transcript
Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Episode Summary
This episode of the Upside Down Parenting Podcast features Alisa Childers, a popular Summit Ministries speaker and Christian apologist known for her book Another Gospel. Alisa discusses her upcoming student edition of the book, which aims to help young people recognize and resist progressive Christianity. Throughout the conversation, Alisa offers practical advice for parents whose children may be encountering these ideas, emphasizing the importance of Scripture study, asking good questions about what Jesus himself taught, and potentially limiting social media exposure. She encourages listeners to distinguish between secondary theological disagreements and true progressive Christianity, focus Bible study on what Scripture reveals about God rather than ourselves, and respond with compassion when children question their faith while still maintaining biblical truth.
Episode Transcript
Katie Bergford (00:00):
Welcome to the Upside Down Parenting Podcast from Summit Ministries. Parenting can feel overwhelming and disorienting, but you don’t have to do it alone. We’re here to walk with you as you raise your kids to embrace God’s countercultural truth, his upside down kingdom, and champion a biblical worldview.
In today’s episode, we’re thrilled to welcome Alisa Childers to the show. Alisa is one of our favorite summit speakers and a leading voice in Christian apologetics cultural engagement and equipping the next generation to think biblically. You might know her from her book Another Gospel?: A Lifelong Christian Seeks Truth in Response to Progressive Christianity, and we’ve got exciting news. She’s releasing a student edition this October. Today we’re talking with Alisa about her upcoming book and how parents can equip their kids with a thriving biblical worldview and help them recognize and resist the pull of progressive Christianity. You won’t want to miss this conversation. Let’s dive in.
Well, Alisa, welcome to the Upside Down Parenting Podcast. I’m so glad to chat with you today and hear from your wisdom. I so appreciate the work that you’ve done with Summit over the years. I know that you are a favorite speaker when students come and get to hear from you and your story. You also wrote your book Another Gospel?, which is a favorite among our students. So you’re also coming out with a student edition of that book. Why did you write this and how does it compliment the initial book?
Alisa Childers (01:24):
Well, Katie, it’s great to be with you and get to talk virtually, even though we’ve met face-to-face, kind of have this more deep conversation about this. But yeah, so Another Gospel? is really my theological memoir. I don’t know if that’s a real genre, but that’s what it feels like to me because it’s my story of walking through a really intense time of doubt where I nearly lost my faith in my mid thirties, and it was a result of taking part of a small class in an evangelical church that I didn’t know at the time was really heading very quickly toward progressive Christianity.
So the book tells my story, but it also interacts with the core beliefs of progressive Christianity and gives a biblical sort of answer to those things. So I think that because the younger generation has honestly, even if parents are very vigilant to maintain a good screen time rule and to really police a lot of that stuff, they’re still just exposed to so many things and so many different ideas that are out there.
(02:25):
And progressive Christianity is probably the biggest thing coming for them, I think for Christian kids because it promotes itself as being Christianity, but it promotes itself as being a more inclusive, kind of tolerant kind of Christianity, which can be very appealing to a generation that’s being told that if they have biblical views on, for example, marriage, that they’re not just wrong, but that they’re actually hurting people and that they themselves are harmful people.
And so that’s something that I think the younger generation is really navigating. So I had a real passion to want to bring the overall message of the book another gospel, but condense it down, make it little bit, and really updating also some, because I’m a Gen Xer, so I wrote the book with a lot of Gen X pop culture kind of references of people who grew up in the evangelical church in the nineties, eighties and nineties, have told me like, oh yeah, that was my upbringing too. So I wanted to kind of bring that into a different context for the younger generation that may not have really have that backstory because they didn’t grow up in the same world. So I wanted to kind of bring it into their world.
Katie Bergford (03:23):
Totally. That’s great and an awesome resource then for parents to point their kids to a book that goes into that. Can you define progressive Christianity? So before we jump into this conversation, that way we have clear terms. What is progressive Christianity?
Alisa Childers (03:39):
Right. Okay. So I have to give a couple of caveats before I can give a definition because it’s really hard to define. And the reason it’s hard to define is because of its nature. So it doesn’t work like historic Christianity that has had creeds and councils and people way smarter than all of us getting together to try to make sure that what we believe and what we confess and the way we live reflects Scripture. Progressive Christianity is just different. It’s the view that Christianity itself is progressing and changing.
So there really isn’t in the view of the progressive Christian, like this historical core that you would have to believe in order to call yourself a Christian. Now, what that’s going to look like in its current iteration right now, and this is probably where people will recognize it, is it’s a movement of people calling themselves Christians that come out of the evangelical church that are very much open and affirming of all the LGBTQ+ spectrum. Plus it’s going to be very much motivated by what we might call contemporary critical social justice, which in the common vernacular now people are just calling it wokeness, that sort of thing.
(04:49):
But then if you think about it along the narrative arc of the gospel, progressive Christians are hard to define with what they believe, but they’re not hard to define when you look at what they deny. So they’re going to deny that humans are inherently sinful, that sin separates us from God. They’re going to deny that the atoning sacrifice of Jesus was necessary for that substitution to take place for Jesus to take our sins upon himself. The resurrection doesn’t have to be literal to be meaningful, and then if you don’t have a literal physical resurrection, you don’t have an ascension, you don’t have a second coming. So all of that kind of becomes like a metaphor.
And then at the end of the day, most progressive Christians are at least some version of universalist and that they will deny that there’s a place of punishment in the afterlife called hell. So it’s sort of like if you put all of that together and drop it into the evangelical church, that’s kind of what you’re looking at with progressive Christianity.
Katie Bergford (05:44):
That’s really helpful, especially as we continue to flesh out some questions here. Hopefully that definition is helpful for us. So for students, it seems like that is really appealing. They hear, okay, that sounds more inclusive and that inclusive language is talked about all the time right now. So how can we as parents help our students see that? No, that’s actually not appealing. That’s not the beauty of the gospel. The true gospel is more beautiful, so how can we help our students see that it’s not actually that appealing?
Alisa Childers (06:20):
Right. Well, first of all, let’s talk about maybe why it’s so appealing, especially to the younger generation, because you think about all that’s being pedaled to them. They’re being told that they’re perfect justice. They are. Don’t let anybody tell you that you’re broken, and if they do tell you you’re broken, they’re just trying to control you. They’re trying to prop up their institution of power.
So you have a whole generation that’s sort of being led to believe that what you believe inside your own heart is the highest virtue, and you would never want to tell somebody else that they should believe something different than they do because they’re just living their true authentic self, and you’re just living your true authentic self. So I think one of the reasons it’s appealing is because it caters to that. It’s not going to require you to evangelize anybody else.
(07:04):
It’s not going to require you to ever suggest that somebody else might be wrong about what they believe morally or even spiritually. But I think it’s even deeper than that. I think one of the reasons that it is so appealing is because if I think about when I grew up in the eighties and nineties, if I believed that sex was to be enjoyed within the confines of biblical marriage, my friends might’ve thought I was a goodie two shoes, or they might’ve thought, oh, that’s cute, that’s kind of whatever. What a good girl. Or they might’ve rolled their eyes or even made fun of me. But today, our kids are being told, you’re not just a goody two shoes. Your actual beliefs harm people.
(07:44):
And so when they’re being told that inclusion is the highest virtue, well then along comes Christianity that says, well, no, there’s a lot of things that will exclude someone from the kingdom of heaven. And so any kind of life that is affirming and celebrating sin of any kind is not compatible with Christianity. That’s just like a radically opposite message to what the culture is telling them.
(08:10):
Yeah, so not only are they wanting, and a lot of it too is motivated out of a genuine care and a love for their friends. They have friends that struggle with certain things and they’ve been sold the lie that what you feel is who you are. So they’re wanting to affirm and celebrate their friend because that’s what they feel is the most loving thing. But what I think we have to realize and how to communicate that is really helping our younger generation understand that humans are inherently sinful.
I always tell students when I talk to them, I think the biggest challenge for evangelism for your generation is just convincing people that they need to be saved. I mean, if you look at past generations, my dad’s generation, my generation, people generally kind of knew that you’re not doing so great on your own, right? You’re a sinner.
(08:53):
You need something yet because of all the messaging, I think that’s almost a foreign message that you would tell somebody that they’re inherently sinful and that they have committed sins that are deserving of the wrath of God. So I think it’s a tough sell to a generation that kind of believes you live your truth. And all of my truth, and especially even Christian kids, they’ve bought into this to a certain extent too. It’s like a lot of Christian kids when they’ve been polled, they’ll say, well, yeah, Christianity is true for me, but I’m not going to tell somebody else that is true for them, and that’s because of that sort of all inclusive virtue that’s being sold to them.
Katie Bergford (09:29):
Yeah, that’s fascinating and definitely a part of our culture today that I think about the hundreds of conversations that I’ve had with students at Summit and church, other places, and even in strong Christian homes, there is this pull towards inclusion and feelings. How have you, especially even as a parent, balanced then the need for truth and scripture, but then also acknowledging that we are beings that have feelings. God made us that way. How have you tried to balance those two and guide your own kids in that even and then educate others? Just that tension between truth and also our emotions and relationship and yeah. How would you handle that?
Alisa Childers (10:18):
Well, I think one of the things I’ve really tried to be intentional about is when it comes to those kinds of categories to just be really clear with my kids. So for example, we’re living in a culture now where our kids are going to know gay people. They’re going to know people that identify somewhere on the LGBTQ spectrum. I think to reaffirm truth with our kids, to keep categories clear. Just because somebody feels this way doesn’t mean that’s who they are and doesn’t mean that they’re not invited to repent of their sin and follow Christ.
I think that’s a huge knot to untie for the younger generation because they’ve been sold the idea that your feelings are your true identity, that that’s somehow immutable and fixed and can’t change that. They think, oh, well, if I have a friend who says they’re gay, then that means they can’t be a Christian. So we have to untie that and say, well, no, actually with that, the same Jesus is all inclusive in the sense that he invites everyone no matter what, but just like he invites everyone no matter what, everyone, when they choose to follow him, has to turn from their sin no matter what that is.
(11:20):
And that sin isn’t who they are. It might be what they feel. So I think just reinforcing that message of this might be what you feel, but it’s not who you are. So on a messaging level, but also I think it’s really important for us to, even on the way we act kind of level, because kids will emulate what they catch from you, maybe even more than what they learn from you.
So there have been times where there was, for example, there was a kid who identified as gay who did not come from a Christian family, but I guess he came to church with his cousin once, and my daughter told me about him that he was in the youth group, and that sadly, a couple of the kids were kind of giving him a hard time. And so I told my daughter, I said, you have the opportunity to be a light to this kid to let them see a real Christian who loves them. And so we ended up giving him a rides, picking him up, trying to get to know him. And so I think letting our kids see that we’re not weirded out by it.
(12:19):
We’re not going to run away from it, and that we genuinely do love that group of people, and we love them enough to tell them the truth about what is reality, but also to reach out and not isolate them or ostracize them. So I think, yeah, just sort of balancing that action with the actual messaging. Honestly, at the end of the day though, I mean our kids are going to do what they’re going to do. I always have to go into this very humbly because my kids are 17 and 14 and I’m doing the best I can to equip them.
But I also know that people grow up in homes where parents did everything and they walk away, and then on the other hand, they grow up in homes where they were raised by horrible parents and they end up being fruitful in ministry. So I don’t mean to say, follow this formula and your kid’s going to turn out perfect, but I think as Christian parents, we are obligated to do the action and to teach the truth and not flinch from that stuff because we’re worried that we won’t say it right. Or even if we do react in a way that isn’t good, we can always repent to our kids and come back and say, look, I overreacted, I’m sorry, and that sort of thing.
Katie Bergford (13:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s good. As a parent to be in a space where we’re open to stumbling through and yet then actually pressing into the conversations, I know that that’s some of what we’ve been talking about on this parenting podcast is how do we actually enter in with our kids? And we probably will stumble through that, but then that’s when we have God’s grace and then resources.
We have conversations with you or other people who we’re trying to glean wisdom from when thinking about progressive Christianity and seeing that it’s appealing, but knowing, okay, yes, the truth of the gospel is even more appealing. It actually is the true story and the more beautiful way. What would you want to tell someone who is falling into progressive Christianity, whether that’s an adult but also a student? What would you want to tell them to try to communicate? No, actually the gospel is the more beautiful way. How would you want to communicate that?
Alisa Childers (14:31):
Yeah. Well, a couple of things come to mind. First of all, a kid who is identifying as a Christian, somebody who follows Jesus, you would hope that they’re going to want to follow what Jesus teaches about certain things. And so I always tell audiences when I present on progressive Christianity that because of the nature of progressive Christianity, probably people need to understand this about the progressive view of the Bible.
Progressive Christians generally don’t see the Bible as being God’s inspired inerrant Word from Genesis to Revelation. They might view the Gospels as being a little bit more authoritative, or even the red letters being more authoritative. It’s going to depend on the person. You all just have to ask them. But I would hope that a kid in youth group that might just be kind of falling for some of this would be interested to know what Jesus has to say about the Bible and what Jesus has to say about what he accomplished on the cross and what he has to say about the gospel.
And so that’s maybe a good question to invite them in. Would you be interested in seeing how Jesus referred to the Scriptures because there’s a really good chance maybe they haven’t thought, especially if it’s a younger person, that they haven’t really thought that through. And in the book I detail many times where Jesus quotes from the Old Testament and he says, this is what God said to you. This is God’s command, for God commanded God’s Word. You void the Word of God, you Pharisees, when you’re adding human traditions to the Word of God.
(15:50):
And if you look at the way Jesus is talking about Old Testament scripture, you would think, man, if I’m going to be a Jesus follower, I want to follow Jesus’. Lead on that. And then in the book also we talk about his view of the cross. So if you look at all of the different ways the New Testament talks about what Jesus accomplished on the cross, some of those nobody has a problem with, but the one that progresses have a problem with is the idea that it was substitutionary.
If you look at the night before Jesus was betrayed in the upper room, there’s a couple of really big clues he gives as to what he is thinking about why he’s dying. And one, he quotes Isaiah 53 and says, this is about me. He institutes communion where it’s his sacrifice is the final sacrifice, the new covenant in his blood.
(16:36):
So there’s a lot of things that Jesus has to say about what he’s accomplishing on the cross. And maybe the question is just like, would you be interested in hearing about it? Would you like to hear about what Jesus taught about that? And then maybe go from there. Because if we can help people understand Jesus’ view of the Scriptures, then that might open them up to being open to hearing more of the scriptures.
Because what you’ll often run into with progressive Christians is that they’re okay with Jesus, but they’re not really okay with Paul and they don’t know what to do. So if you just go around quoting 1 Corinthians or Galatians, you might not get very far. Whereas if you quote from Jesus directly, that might be a better way to start. And again, I want to be very clear to say, I believe all scripture is inspired by God.
(17:20):
Every letter is red letters, but for the sake of evangelism and trying to reach out, you might be able to build a bridge with the gospels and specifically with the red letters. And so that might be a way to begin that conversation. But as far as the beauty, you asked about the beauty, I think one of the things that I think could be quite powerful, especially among this younger generation that is absolutely being bombarded with messages of you can do it all yourself. You got to put yourself first. You’re not broken. Everything about you is great. I think deep down, that is a very unsatisfying message.
In fact, I was talking once with a girl who committed her life to Christ in college, and when I asked her what first drew her to the Christians, she said, well, I was just so exhausted from being told that I had everything I need inside myself. And then I just felt like I had to do everything myself, and I knew that I wasn’t good enough inside myself. And so when I heard the gospel of grace where I couldn’t earn my salvation, but it’s unmerited favor that just drew her right in because it’s like ceasing from your striving and your labor to try to do everything all by yourself and just unleash your inner goddess and all of that stuff. So I think that we can really hit on some felt needs that way.
Katie Bergford (18:38):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It’s a gift that it’s not up to us that we get to come to the throne of grace and Jesus is there. So I love that in the gospel. Yes. Okay, we’re going to jump into a speed round of some fun questions to kind of let us catch our breath during this important conversation. So I’m looking for some short answers to these questions. Are you ready?
Alisa Childers (19:02):
I’m ready.
Katie Bergford (19:03):
Great. Okay. So who is someone that you’d want to have coffee with from Scripture, and why would you want to have coffee with them?
Alisa Childers (19:11):
I would want to have coffee with Daniel, I think because Daniel is the only Old Testament character that didn’t have a major fall, he was just kind of faithful. He was faithful, whether he was being crowned as second in command under the king, he was faithful, even if he was thrown into a lion’s den, he was just kind of consistently faithful. And I feel like I’d want to have coffee with that guy.
Katie Bergford (19:39):
Awesome. Okay. What is one word that describes your current season with God?
Alisa Childers (19:44):
This might be weird, but homesteading.
Katie Bergford (19:47):
Okay. Oh, tell us a little bit about that.
Alisa Childers (19:49):
Well, my husband and I are total wannabe homesteaders right now. So we moved out to five acres. We’ve got chickens. I’m obsessed with gardening right now, and I feel like as I study the scriptures and as I garden and take care of these animals, and I am a beekeeper as well, I feel like God is, I’m just learning so much about the beauty of God’s creation and how absolutely creative God is, how beneficial when we just do things in a more natural way, just he’s given us all we need and it’s just pretty cool. I don’t know. And then they’re cursed, too. You’ll toil by the sweat of your brow. I have really experienced that, and yet the reward is so great. So I guess, yeah, that’d be the word is homesteading.
Katie Bergford (20:35):
Yeah. Oh, I love it. That’s great. Okay. What is one of the best books in theology that you’ve read recently?
Alisa Childers (20:44):
Recently? It’s one that I’m reading right now, and probably I’m saying this because it’s the one that’s freshest on my mind, but it’s Michael Reeves and it’s called Rejoice and Tremble, and it’s a book about the fear of God, and it is really, he’s a breathtakingly beautiful writer, and he’s just writing about these deep doctrinal truths of the fear of God with this just beautiful way. So I’m really enjoying that.
Katie Bergford (21:12):
Awesome. That makes me want to add it to my list. That’s great. Yes. Okay. What is a fiction book that you’ve read recently that you’ve really enjoyed?
Alisa Childers (21:18):
Fiction? Oh, man. It’s probably been a while since I’ve read fiction. What did I read? I don’t know. This one’s hard. I can’t come up with one. I mean, it’s been a long time since I’ve read fiction, probably like a decade. Well, no, that’s not, I probably read one or two in there, but I don’t read a lot of fiction anymore.
Katie Bergford (21:37):
Yes. Is that just because you just haven’t enjoyed as much or the season you’ve been in?
Alisa Childers (21:43):
That’s a really good question. I think because of my faith crisis and then studying, I’ve just been so obsessed with knowledge and information that I haven’t come back around to kind of exhaling into something more beautiful like a fiction. I love fiction. It’s not that I am a snob about it. It’s just not where my interest is right now, I think.
Katie Bergford (22:06):
Yeah, that totally makes sense. Yeah, sometimes it’s helpful to hear that, that there’s permission in whatever season we’re in to devour what God’s putting on our heart and stuff.
Alisa Childers (22:18):
Well, I did read The Hobbit to my kids a few years ago, so about five years ago I read The Hobbit to my kids. Really enjoyed that.
Katie Bergford (22:25):
Yeah. Yes. Good. That’s great. Okay, last speed round question. What are some fun things that you guys have been enjoying as a family this summer?
Alisa Childers (22:34):
Well, we got to go to a camp in upstate New York called Tampa the Woods, and I was speaking there, but it was so much fun. We went zip lining, but the legit zip lining where you have to climb the tree, it’s really daunting. But we did it and we went inner tubing behind the boat. We went on a pontoon ride, we went whitewater rafting. We had so much fun. We really, really, really had a lot of fun with that.
Katie Bergford (23:01):
That does sound like a ton of fun. Awesome. Okay, let’s jump back into some other questions. So how do we as parents avoid conflating what we see as false secondary views among Christians versus progressive Christianity? So yeah, maybe just secondary doctrine versus progressive Christianity. Those are different. How do we navigate that?
Alisa Childers (23:23):
Yeah, that is such an important question because a lot of times people think that because somebody disagrees with them on a secondary issue, they must be progressive.
(23:31):
So here’s an example. I’m going to give you an example that’s kind of controversial, but every time I’m at Summit and do the forum, somebody asks me about this anyway, but the issue of women in ministry is my conviction that that’s a secondary issue that is, but by the way, when I say secondary, I don’t mean unimportant. I have very passionate views on that, and my conviction on that issue is going to determine where I choose to go to church. And I think there are things that you can have enough error in that it would lead you to a progressive Christianity, but I’ll make a distinction there.
So I was raised in a denomination that was fully egalitarian, meaning they ordained women as senior pastors. Now after my faith crisis, and I really studied the Bible systematically, I changed my view on that. And I’m now where I believe women and men are made equal and dignity value and worth different in the roles that they play in the church and the home. And there’s incredible beauty. I could go on for an hour about it.
(24:29):
But I’m not going to disfellowship with somebody if they disagree with me on that. But I will say at the same time, so just because somebody might affirm an egalitarian view does not mean they’re a progressive Christian, whereas every progressive Christian is also egalitarian. So you can sometimes make the mistake of saying, oh, well, if somebody has a different view than me on that, they must be progressive. But what you have to look at is the methodology.
So for the faithful Christian who has come to maybe a more egalitarian view than I would hold, hopefully we’re both going to scripture to try to mine from the scripture what the scripture teaches about that topic, and we might end up disagreeing a little bit. Whereas in progressive Christianity, that is seen more as a justice issue. They’re not going to Scripture to figure out what the Bible teaches about it.
(25:15):
What they’re basically assuming is that if a woman has an unequal outcome, that’s an oppression, that’s an injustice. So it’s a totally different thing. I’ve had, for example, Doug Groothuis, who is one of the most godly, faithful Christian men I know. He’s a philosopher, written amazing apologetics books. His books are used as textbooks, just amazing godly guy. He’s egalitarian because he’s persuaded from Scripture that that’s what Scripture teaches. Now, I disagree with him on that, but he is nothing like a progressive Christian, not even close.
So we have to ask more questions and make sure that we are keeping the primary things, the ones that we will divide over. We will divide over the resurrection of Jesus, we will divide over sexuality because frankly, the Bible says there are certain things that in an unrepentant state, that person will not inherit the kingdom of heaven so that it’s life and death.
(26:08):
So the way we distinguish, I would start probably with 1 Corinthians 15:3-5. That’s a very early creed that says that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas and then the twelve. And that is a great place to start with what the essentials are, and of Christianity is more than that. But progressive Christians pretty much deny, they may not deny, they would maybe say, I believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus, but they would deny what that meant to the earliest Christians and us.
So asking a lot of questions, trying to even, starting at maybe that real basic point of that creed in 1 Corinthians 15 would be a good start. But again, in Another Gospel?, I go through that and I even list out what are the ones that, what are the beliefs that we can’t agree to disagree that we’re sinners, we’re just not talking about Christianity anymore if we’re saying humans are not sinful.
Katie Bergford (27:08):
Yeah, that’s good. I’m hearing from you how important it is to be immersed in scripture and studying it. How have you learned how to study scripture, and especially as you have come out of being influenced in progressive Christianity, your story there? Do you just read scripture? Do you read commentaries? What have been some of the things that have been helpful for you to study and interpret Scripture rightly?
Alisa Childers (27:37):
Well, yeah, I do read commentaries. When I was growing up, I didn’t really know how to study scripture. And I realized as an adult, I was reading a lot of the Old Testament. I didn’t know that at the time. I mean, I still believed that these things happened in history, but I wasn’t really connecting with what was going on in the text.
And so just learning as an adult to ask questions, who wrote this book? Who did they write it to? What kind of a book is this, this history? Is this instruction? Is this law? Is this poetry? Is this wisdom literature? And then understanding what kind of a book we’re reading. You asked about fiction versus nonfiction. When I read a fiction book, I’m not thinking that they’re telling a fact about history, but if I read a history book, I’m assuming they’re trying to at least relay facts about history, and it’s not a made up story like a fiction book.
(28:31):
So in the Bible, we have to consider those genres as well. And so I think, just learning to ask some really good questions. Stop asking, what does this mean to me? Stop trying to apply it before we understand what it actually means. I think another thing I did all my life is I would just immediately apply something like you’d see David go out to battle and defeat the enemy, and I would just apply that to some spiritual battle I was going through in my life. And I realized that’s not what that means, and that’s not how I’m actually supposed to apply that.
And so kind of reorienting my brain to think, okay, scripture’s not about me. It’s about God. So what am I learning about God from this passage? What am I learning about the world and even about the state of humanity, but ultimately, what am I learning about God’s nature and character?
(29:18):
And so that’s one thing I always try to teach my kids as well, is no matter what passage of scripture we’re reading, I want everybody to say, what did you learn about God in this scripture? And maybe it’s indirect. Maybe it’s just showing that God cared enough about his people in this particular story to make sure that they, okay.
For example, for a perfect example, just this morning I was studying Leviticus 13, and it’s just kind of this passage that I probably would’ve brushed over as I was younger about leprosy. And if they have this kind of a sore, the hair gets white, then you have to do this. And if it’s this, then they have to be isolated for seven days and they’re unclean. And you look at it and you’re like, God is so, first of all, what mercy?
Because if you think about, that’s stuff that those people would not have been able to know about infectious disease and that you need to be isolated for a certain amount of time, but that was part of his caring for them so that they don’t all have this contagious disease spread through the camp to have the person be isolated if it looks like this or like this. And it’s just this tender, fatherly care for his people. So everything in scripture reveals God’s nature and character.
Katie Bergford (30:32):
Yeah, I love that. When we focus on, what does this say about God? It makes us love him more because we see, yeah, his character is one of love, compassion, and we actually know him versus just, yeah, what does this say about myself? And then when we know more about him, then what does it say about ourselves? Oh, yes, then that we are loved too, but then the focus isn’t on us, and that’s actually a huge gift. That’s a really good thing. So what would you say if my child came to me and said that they were deconstructing their faith, what should I do?
Alisa Childers (31:09):
Well, the first thing I would do is don’t panic, because one thing I’ve discovered is that especially among the younger generation, that word can mean a whole lot of different things to them. So for a lot of kids that I’ve interacted with, even at Summit and other places, they have been told that deconstruction is just something you do to make your faith your own. You want to make sure that what your parents told you is true, that it reflects reality, that it reflects what the Scripture teaches, and you’re really trying to search the Scriptures to figure out what you believe about God.
And if that’s the case, I wouldn’t worry about it. I would encourage them to make their faith their own and tell them, you’re here to help them in any way you can, and that sort of thing. Now, if you sense they’re deconstructing where they’re kind of being real adversarial to the Bible and things like that, but they’re not necessarily using the word deconstruction, that’s probably more the kind of deconstruction we talk about in our book that’s going to be influenced by social media.
(32:05):
I think it’s really worth considering limiting or getting rid of social media with your kids because it’s very much like a social contagion and the talkers that are bombarding with twenty second TikToks that seem to completely take down the Christian faith that for kids who haven’t really been trained in critical thinking and they haven’t really been able to think these things through, I mean, it’s very persuasive and it’s very much brainwashing like propaganda.
So if you sense that kind of thing, I would really consider doing something to remove that influence while the kid is still in your home. I know that’s hard to think about, but you really may want to consider that. And then if it’s something more like maybe there’s been some church hurt even at young ages, there can be a lot going on with youth groups or whatever. Just having compassion and trying to get to the bottom of what the wound is before we try to fix the theology, I think is important.
(33:00):
Cry with those who cry and then maybe share if there was legitimate abuse that happened or something along those lines, that Jesus is against that. In fact, one thing I always bring up is that, pointing out to people that according to the Bible, one of the biblical qualifications for elders is that they’re not abusive. And if they are, they’re not qualified. And the Bible has that in there for a reason.
Now that if a church didn’t follow that as, I think it was John Dixon who said, if somebody plays Beethoven poorly, you don’t blame Beethoven. You blame the person who played it poorly. And so helping kind of parse those categories. But I think more than anything, and this is probably just going to be real simple, but just giving your kids the example of a real authentic Christian is probably the best thing you can do.
Katie Bergford (33:42):
Amen. Yeah, that’s really good. How can I encourage my kids to love others while standing for truth? And maybe they are on fire for truth. How can we love others while being?
Alisa Childers (33:55):
Yeah, because I have run into that in some youth groups where the kids that are really, this is a genuine thing where kids have been so bombarded with wokeness, they’ve been so bombarded by especially white males that have been told what’s wrong with the whole world, and now they’re kind of pushing back against that. And the tendency can be to be like, you know what? We’re not going to take it anymore. And I do understand that. I get that.
And so I think my advice would be, and this is actually what I tell my kids too, no matter what kind of content you’re taking in, even if it’s really conservative content, just because conservative doesn’t mean it’s Christian, doesn’t mean that it has Christ at the center. So you might agree with somebody politically or even ethically, but they may be doing it in a way that is totally un-Christlike and trying to make that distinction of always letting our kids know, even though it seems like some things are swinging more to the conservative side, that doesn’t mean that people are following Christ.
(34:58):
Christians are of a different kingdom. We are foreigners in this world. We’re not to love the world. And in that verse, the context of the world, there is the system of rebellion that’s against God, not necessarily the world like the people in the world. We love the people, but also teaching kids. I think what love does speak truth, but maybe highlighting some verses. I mean, it just depends on the kid where they’re coming from.
If they are being a little bit more aggressive, maybe Jesus said, love those who hate you. Pray for your enemies. Bless those who curse you. I mean, that’s a hard sell in a world where you’ve been kind of pummeled by these ideas, but just trying to constantly bring it back to Christ and his teaching on those things, I think is probably the best path.
Katie Bergford (35:43):
Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. Alisa, is there anything else that we didn’t cover that you’d really like to share with parents today?
Alisa Childers (35:50):
No. Man, I’d be so thrilled to see kids get their hands on this book, Another Gospel? Student Edition, because we put a lot of care into it to try to make it really aimed toward that teenage kind of student type demographic to make it understandable to them, to condense it in a way that will give them the big picture, but not be overwhelming.
So I would love for you to pick that up and tell your friends about it, tell your youth pastors about it. That would help out so much to get the word out. It’ll be quite a bit shorter than the original book. And yeah, just to get the word out would be so helpful because I’m really, really hoping and praying that it will equip kids and just give them a little bit of an extra line of defense when they encounter these ideas in their culture.
Katie Bergford (36:35):
Yeah. That’s excellent. Thanks so much for joining me on the Upside Down Parenting podcast. This is such helpful content for our parent audience as they seek to model a biblical worldview and pass on faith to their children. To our audience, thank you for listening. Please take a moment to review the show and subscribe so that you don’t miss out on our next conversation. We’ll see you next time.
Dr. Jeff Myers (36:58):
Hey, it’s Dr. Jeff Myers from Summit Ministries. How confident are you in talking with your kids about gender? Because it’s more than just transgenderism and sexuality. We need to help our young adults become confident in who God made them to be as young men and women. So Dr. Kathy Koch and I recently have authored a book called Raising Gender Confident Kids. It equips you with the tools that you need to help your children navigate these turbulent waters.
When Dr. Kathy and I wrote this book, we decided to focus on giving a biblically based approach to helping teach kids the truth about who God made them to be. We show you how you can be compassionate, promote hope and truth, and the process, understand the cultural challenges and how they’re affecting our own kids. What we want is to nurture confident, secure boys and girls to become godly young men and women.
So even if transgender has not been a big part of the conversation in your home, this book is a must read. If you’re committed to discipling children to embrace their design that was given to them by God, you can get your free copy of Raising Gender Confident Kids today at genderconfidentkids.com.