The Dr. Jeff Show Ep. 5 – Josh McDowell

Episode 5: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

This episode features evangelist Josh McDowell, who shares the story of his personal journey to faith. He discusses his painful childhood, which included having an alcoholic father and being a victim of sexual abuse, leading to an early hostility towards Christianity. McDowell recounts his intellectual quest to disprove Christianity, which ultimately led to his conversion after he became convinced by the historical evidence.

He explains that his sustained passion for ministry stems from deep convictions rather than feelings, and the support of his wife. He also provides insights into his methods for engaging with hostile audiences in his international travels and concludes by identifying seven global epidemics—intellectual, emotional, and moral—that he believes the church must address.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:02):
Hey everybody. Welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show where we go behind the scenes and interview major thought leaders to show how worldview changes everything. Every once in a while, if you’re really fortunate, you get to interview one of your heroes. And today’s guest is one of my all- time heroes, the evangelist Josh McDowell.

Josh is going to share a story with us, how he grew up and some of the painful things that he went through growing up and how he came to faith in Christ. But he’s also going to talk about how in decades of ministry traveling to 126 countries, speaking 27,000 times, he has maintained his passion for Jesus. You are not going to want to miss a moment of this because that’s one of the big questions we all ask. How do we stay strong in times like these? Josh McDowell, welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show.

Josh McDowell (01:00):
Hey, this is like dying and going to heaven.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:05):
Can we use that as our little testimonial for our future programs?

Josh McDowell (01:09):
That’s right.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:11):
Well, at least the heaven part, the dying part, I mean, people aren’t big fans. Listen, I love talking with you. I never know exactly what you’re going to say next, which is part of what’s so fun about it. But you have spoken 27,000 times in 126 countries sharing the gospel and helping believers all over the world gain confidence in your faith. And I’ve always wanted to ask you this question, but I never have. So I’m going to ask it, then we can talk about it in a few minutes.

But how do you maintain your passion during all of that? And I want to get to that in a minute because I’m really curious myself of all the things we have talked about and all the times you have been speaking at Summit Ministries or that we’ve been at different events, I’ve never actually asked you that question.

(02:05):
So today’s the day. But I want to go back, Josh, and talk about your childhood a little bit. Because this is a big part of your story, is your reaction, your allergic reaction to Christianity early in your life. And it sounds like that started when you were a little kid going to church.

Josh McDowell (02:29):
It did start out when I was a little kid because my father was a town alcoholic. And so even as a child, I felt shamed every day. I go to school and children, everybody said, “Wouldn’t it be nice if the whole world could be like children?” I say, no, children are mean. They’re very mean. And I had to endure all the jokes and everything about my dad downtown who would make a fool of himself being drunk and everything.

And they didn’t think it bothered me because I had that capacity like a lot of people have. I had the capacity to laugh on the outside when I’m crying on the inside. And as a result, I became very, very bitter as a small child and I wish I hadn’t because I don’t care who you are. You grow up in a very challenging relationship with your father, you will pay a price every day of your life. The input of a father is so great that if you don’t have it, you pay a price. And so I wish I never hated my dad.

Dr. Jeff Myers (03:56):
And in that, you still ended up in church. Was that just because that’s what everybody did or was there somebody who thought maybe this will help?

Josh McDowell (04:07):
Well, my mother always made me go to church. She never went to church one day in her life, I don’t think, but she always made me go to church. But the problem is it was the local church and it was so liberal. I used to seriously say, in spite of what the pastor said, I still believed in God, but it was more of a social occasion when I was a child. And we had a lawyer that taught Sunday school, but he never taught the scriptures.

Dr. Jeff Myers (04:38):
Oh, okay.

Josh McDowell (04:39):
Just mainly told jokes, talked to us, everything. And so I never really learned the scriptures and I thought growing up that was Christianity. And so I wanted nothing to do with it. When I got old enough, I didn’t have to go to church. I didn’t. And I used to think churches where you put a quarter in the offering plate and took out a dollar. It’s a 75-cents-a-week benefit.

Dr. Jeff Myers (05:08):
So it was the ice cream fund. Mom wasn’t there. You knew the people sitting next to you wouldn’t say anything.

Josh McDowell (05:16):
That’s right. Hey, I took money out of the offering plate many times. Not only me, but my friends did. I’ve certainly made up for it in my life.

Dr. Jeff Myers (05:28):
Oh, yes, you have. Yes, you have.

Josh McDowell (05:30):
I ended up very much just giving.

Dr. Jeff Myers (05:32):
The statute of limitations has expired. I think you’re good. Hey, but follow on that, though.

Josh McDowell (05:38):
As well as I’m not a congressman. If I was a congressman, they’d throw me out like they did Green.

Dr. Jeff Myers (05:48):
If you went off to college with that attitude, well, you did and then you met Christians while you were there and you had an even stronger allergic reaction to that. I mean, you actually became pretty militant, right?

Josh McDowell (06:05):
I did, in a verbal way, not physically. When I went off to college, I was hurt. I was bitter. I was mad at my parents and I was really mad at God. And one of the reasons was from 6 to 13 years of age, for seven years, every single week I was homosexually raped two or three times a week for seven years by a man with the name of Wayne Bailey and he was hired to be a cook and a housekeeper so my mother could work the field and everything.

And whenever my parents would go away or go out to the field where they say, “Now you obey Wayne, you do everything he tells you to do. And if I get back, find out you’re disobedient, you’re going to get a thrashing.” So what do you do at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 years old, you do what Wayne Bailey tells you.

(07:02):
And so that developed a tremendous bitterness, resentment, hurt. I call it, I was wounded. In the depth of my soul, I was wounded. It’s amazing how rape and sex abuse goes so deep in a man and I can’t imagine what it’s like with a woman. And when people make light of it, I really come unglued.

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:31):
I bet. We’ve had a number of episodes of the Dr. Jeff Show where we talk about sex trafficking and pornography and things like that. But at this point.

Josh McDowell (07:43):
I’ve got a solution for sex traffickers, but I can’t mention on the air what I would do, but it would take a knife. But anyway, go ahead.

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:53):
Okay. Okay. Yep. That’s all we have to say. Let’s go back to your college experience for a minute. So at this point, wounded, bitter, angry at God, you actually set about on a project to disprove that Christianity is true.

Josh McDowell (08:15):
Well, I met this group of Christians. There were eight students and two professors and their lives were different. Now, most people are different because they’re weird. These people were different because they seemed to have a genuine authentic love and care for each other and they seemed to have the same thing for people outside their group and that got my attention.

And I made friends with them and one day, just flippantly, just off the top of my head, I just said to this young lady, I said, “What changed your lives? Why are you so different, the other students, the leaders on campus?” And she looked back at me with a little smile, which was irritating and just said, Jesus Christ.

(09:02):
I said, “For God’s sake, don’t give me that garbage. I’m sick and tired of religion, the church, the Bible, Christians, and Christianity. I want nothing to do with it.” And all I know is, she wasn’t only cute. I thought all Christians were ugly. I figured if you couldn’t make it anywhere else in life, you became a Christian, but she was really cute and she said, “Well, we didn’t tell you religion. We didn’t tell you the church. We didn’t tell you Christians and Christianity. We told you the person of Jesus Christ.”

Well, I apologized to him because one thing my mother had raised me not to be rude and boy had I been rude. And so I apologized and then I added a disclaimer to my apology. I said, “Look, I want to get one thing straight. I want nothing to do with Christianity.”

(09:55):
“I want nothing to do with the Bible or church.” Then I couldn’t believe it right there in the university. That girl had the audacity to me right in the eye and challenged me to intellectually examine two things. One, the Bible is being true and being the word of God, which I thought was a joke. I did because I truly believe Christians had two brains. One was lost, the other was out looking for it. I figured if a Christian had a brain, a dying isolation, loneliness.

And second, to examine Jesus Christ as the Messiah, the son of God. Well, I just laughed at them, but they ticked me off. Boy, they irritated me. Now don’t get me wrong, everything those Christians were doing was totally appropriate. I was the problem. I had shoved that anger, that resentment, that bitterness, that hurt down into my life. When they said Jesus Christ, it was like a volcano coming out and they just kept challenging me to the point they made me so mad and I’m glad they did now.

(11:08):
I said, “Okay, I’ll accept your challenge.” Jeff, they got all excited. I thought they had a convert and I said, “But I’m not going to do it to prove anything. I’m going to do it to refute you.” And I took the wind out of their sails. And so I left the university. I took a leave of absence, traveled throughout the United States, England, Germany, France, Switzerland, the Middle East, gathering evidence to write a book called Evidence that Demands a Verdict to make a joke of these students and professors and to refute them and silence them.

I had a problem. The more I researched the evidence, the more doubt I had about my position. I was returning home and I flew into London overnight. And so I went to this museum library that was known for having good manuscripts because if I could show the manuscripts were not trustworthy, then my case was won because the Bible’s based upon the manuscripts.

(12:15):
I’ll never forget I sat there, small library in a museum, leaned back in my chair, put my hands behind my head and right in front of everyone, which was probably three people, right out loud I just said, “It’s true. It’s true. It’s true.” And what I meant by that statement was that as an obnoxious, angry, ornery university student, I concluded intellectually that I could hold the Bible in my hand and say two things about it. One, that what was written down was true. Jesus actually said that and did that.

And second, that what I have today in the Bible is what was written down. It has not been changed, but I still had a lot of questions. Why? Because yes, I believe it is true that Jesus said this, but I had not concluded that what he said was true. Do you see the difference?

Dr. Jeff Myers (13:29):
Yes.

Josh McDowell (13:30):
It was true that he said it, but I had not concluded at all that what he said was true and that came later through a lot of struggle and a lot of money. I made a lot of money my first two years in college, a lot of money and I spent it all trying to refute Christianity and then trying to find the evidence to write Evidence that Demands a Verdict, which I wrote.

Dr. Jeff Myers (13:57):
But that book did not turn out, yeah. It didn’t turn out the way you intended. It actually turned out the opposite of the way you intended.

Josh McDowell (14:04):
I found out I was the ignorant one, not the Christians, except many Christians are ignorant. Go ahead.

Dr. Jeff Myers (14:10):
Well, the book, Evidence that Demands a Verdict, we had a show with Dr. Frank Turek and he mentioned that, oh, that’s how I came to faith in Christ as I read this book, Evidence that Demands of Verdict, by Josh McDowell. And so many other people have read that book and there’s a new version which people need to get. If you don’t have that on your shelf, I always tell people, look, you got a handful of books you want to have as your base library, Understanding the Times from Summit Ministries. Obviously I always put that one on the table, but Evidence that Demands a Verdict, Christian Apologetics, maybe.

Josh McDowell (14:46):
And More than a Carpenter.

Dr. Jeff Myers (14:49):
I’m talking about the big reference kinds of things, but yes, More than a Carpenter, so that’s the place to start. If somebody just says, “I only have a little bit of time,” or “I’ve got young children at home,” start with More than a Carpenter. But that reference book, Evidence that Demands a Verdict, that you’ve now got a new version with your son, Dr. Sean McDowell. And when questions come up, the index of the book is so fantastic that you can look in the back, read about the questions, then go back and see the evidence.

Josh McDowell (15:21):
I hope this is being recorded.

Dr. Jeff Myers (15:26):
That book has so affected so many people and your other books as well, but that one in particular, that’s one that we, I don’t know, we probably find our bookstore out of five or six books that we sell every summer and that is one of them. I love the story of that book. You intended the evidence to condemn Christianity, but instead the evidence supported it. And you’ve mentioned that the manuscripts are carefully copied out, that the Bible was consistent through time, but you’ve made an important distinction. That doesn’t mean that what is written down there is true. How do you get to that next step?

Josh McDowell (16:15):
I had to get the next step by defining truth. Truth is that which has fidelity to the original. Truth is that which has fidelity to the original. Fidelity I define as the same as or equal to. So, truth is that, which is the same as or equal to the original. Now what’s the original? It’s the original. It’s like if I have a container of Coke and I say, “I have a liter of Coca-Cola.” You say, “No, you don’t.” I said, “I do too.” You said, “Prove it.” So you bring your wife, I’ll bring Dottie and we’ll go to Paris, France where in the outer suburb, the International Bureau of Weights and Measures, they have the original measurements of all metric systems in the world.

(17:16):
And so we would take the original metric measurement of a liter and we would compare it. Truth is that which is the same as equal to the original. So if my container of Coca-Cola was the same as equal to the original, then my statement was true. Why? There was fidelity to the original. And knowing you, Jeff, when I turn my back, you drink a little of it. And so if it came out a little bit less, then my statement was false. Why? Because it had no fidelity to the original. It was the same as equal to.

And this goes, you could define it this way, truth is that which has this fidelity to reality, that which is. So I started out because I knew if I could refute the resurrection, my case was one. That was it because Paul based everything in the resurrection. Now, Jeff, come on, who in the world can believe that a guy was crucified, buried, and three days later got up and walked out of the grave. Come on.

Dr. Jeff Myers (18:27):
The Romans certainly couldn’t believe it.

Josh McDowell (18:28):
When you were dead, you were dead. And so I set out, but the problem is as I checked out the evidence, was the evidence true as recorded in the scripture about the tomb, about the stone, about the crucifixion, about the death of Christ? Was he truly dead? The wrappings around him, the seal on the tomb, everything. And I found out it was truth. It coincided with reality.

And probably the biggest thing that persuaded me, now there were many things apart from the physical evidence and everything was this, the changed lives, starting with the apostles and today. The changed lives was kind of the sledgehammer that drove that big spike into the ground and confirmed it in my life. So then when I trusted Christ the savior, Lord, woo, my life was turned upside down, not right away, but in six months or a year, year and a half, I was a new person.

Dr. Jeff Myers (19:44):
Yeah. Josh, I love that. I love that story. Thank you for sharing it. And thank you for your vulnerability about the pain that you have gone through in that process because I think everybody who’s watching, who’s listening, has secret pains and struggles that they deal with and learning that that becomes.

Josh McDowell (20:10):
And it eats away at you.

Dr. Jeff Myers (20:12):
Yes. But in this situation, your mess became your message. So thank you. Thank you for that.

Josh McDowell (20:21):
Your mess became your message. That’s once in a while, Jeff. I’m going to quote you. I’ll say, “There’s this great man, Dr. Jeff, that said…” Hey, your first question back there, you never did ask me or give me time to answer it. How do you keep your passion going?

Dr. Jeff Myers (20:39):
I’ve got to get back to that because, Josh, here you are with decades of ministry, 27,000 speeches. You traveled all over the world and I don’t think a lot of people know this, but you deliver workshops in English, but you also deliver any of the trainings that you do in Spanish. If you’re in a Spanish speaking country, you speak to people in their heart language.

Josh McDowell (21:09):
Everybody that prays in English has to have a translator. God’s Hispanic.

Dr. Jeff Myers (21:16):
See, you’re able to talk to people in their heart language. There are a couple questions about your life experiences that I want to know about, but I’ve got to know how do you keep getting on the plane? How do you keep your passion going? I know a lot of people whose Christian life tapers out after two, three, five, 10 years.

Josh McDowell (21:41):
I think probably the biggest thing, we all have a belief system, but a belief system is not sufficient no matter how good it is. It’s convictions. A belief system, you know what you believe. Oh, every Christian I meet, I go into a Sunday, oh, they can tell me what I ought to believe about Jesus, the Bible, the resurrection, everything. But hardly any Christian can give me any intelligent reason why I should believe it. So belief is knowing what you believe. Conviction is knowing why you believe it.

Dr. Jeff Myers (22:23):
There you go.

Josh McDowell (22:24):
And when you connect convictions with belief, I believe you have passion. You have passion, you have motivation that will be consistent. I don’t run my life on how I feel. I mean, I go a mile a minute. Sometimes I get so tired I can hardly put one foot in front of the other, but I do. Why? Not because of how I feel, but because of my convictions.

(22:56):
What I believe to be true and knowing why it’s true I think would take you through so many difficult times and it’ll take a life that goes like this up and down, up and down and level it out to gradually grow. And then second, and boy is this so key, the woman I’m married to, Dottie, is one of the most exceptional people I’ve ever met or known in the world.

If she’d been alive back in the time of Jesus, we probably had the book of Dottie, not the book of Esther or something else, but Dottie has convictions also and she believes almost more than what I do the importance of what I do. And with Dottie’s commitment to the cause and her love for me is powerful. I wish every man in ministry could have a spouse like that.

Dr. Jeff Myers (24:09):
Your convictions, but even people who are not married or who don’t have a relationship like that, they can have people who stand alongside of them who affirm their convictions. They do that for one another. Really, it sounds like it’s the body of Christ.

Josh McDowell (24:28):
But it’s still not as good as being married and having a wife behind you.

Dr. Jeff Myers (24:31):
Dottie is amazing.

Josh McDowell (24:32):
I didn’t get married until I was 31.

Dr. Jeff Myers (24:34):
Now, I remember Dottie actually came to one of our Summit Ministries conferences for adults and just was there the whole week so delightful to have her in that event. And then of course we love Sean.

Josh McDowell (24:54):
Yeah. He loves Summit Ministries too like I do.

Dr. Jeff Myers (24:58):
Yeah.

Josh McDowell (24:59):
Your next question, my friend.

Dr. Jeff Myers (25:03):
Josh, there were all of the people you influenced in all these different countries, but they influenced you surely. And I’m curious if you could speak to people who were watching and listening who may not have had a lot of experience traveling in other cultures or seen the church outside of their own home country. What are some of the things that affected and influenced you?

Josh McDowell (25:35):
My staff in the Josh McDowell ministry, we came up with a lot of requirements for me personally and traveling. I never, ever travel alone with a woman. If I’m going to a conference and a staff woman from JMM is going to the conference, we take different planes. They pick us up in different cars.

I never want to stand alone and chat for more than two or three minutes with any woman in any lobby of any hotel or anywhere. I never get in a car alone with a woman. I never have a woman pick me up and boy, I’ve gotten criticism for this where I would tell them ahead of time, I need a man to pick me up and they’d send a woman and I wouldn’t get with them. And I’d take a taxi and then I’d give them the receipt and I don’t think one person ever paid it.

(26:33):
But if I were to fall morally, they’d be the first people to criticize me. So I would say, well, the biggest benefits for me and the way to influence others is the Lord has placed a lot of precautions around my life of what I do and being careful because that’s what derails most people, money and sex. And since I’m on Cru staff, money is definitely not the challenge.

Dr. Jeff Myers (27:03):
You raise a part like everybody else.

Josh McDowell (27:06):
Yep. Yeah. I got some great supporters. Thank God for them. But the other overseas is your own personal life. If you’re not real in your walk for Christ, you will be exposed overseas.

(27:28):
Your attitude, how you do things. I think one key thing is to make sure I’m rested, that I get enough rest traveling, because when I don’t get rest, I get irritable and I can get short with people, cut them off and I don’t even realize it usually. Second, and this is very key, traveling. I’m talking about influencing people. You need to make sure every day you get exercise, which usually internationally means you get up at 4:00, 4:30 in the morning. That’s right.

Because when you go into a country, they want to milk you. They want to get all the milk they can. And so they take you from meeting to meeting to meeting to meeting. No matter if you say I can only speak five times today, they’ll book eight and then make you feel guilty if you don’t do it. And so get plenty of exercise then and this is true anywhere, but boy, internationally ask questions.

(28:42):
God gave us two ears and one mouth. So maybe we’re supposed to listen twice as much as we talk and listen to other people. Then add your two cents. When people pick me up at the airport, usually it’s a key staff member, the director, because they want to spend time with me and I make sure and I pray about it before I get in that car, no matter how long it takes, all I’m going to do is talk about the driver.

(29:13):
I’m just going to ask them questions, everything. I’m not going to talk about myself, the ministry, whatever. And if they ask me a question, I might briefly give an answer, reflect it back to them. And so by the time I arrive somewhere, I know the driver. I know the driver. Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (29:33):
Yeah. So you’re personally investing in the people. They’re bringing you into minister, but you realize that it’s not just up on stage. I appreciate that so much, Josh, because we spent enough time together that I know that that’s true of you. I also know a lot of people who are on stage, they look like they’re the friendliest, most personable person. They walk backstage, They will not give you the time of day. They will not look at you. It feels like it’s a show sometimes.

Josh McDowell (30:08):
But Jeff, we need to give people a break. Everybody has a bad day. Everyone has a bad day, backstage, whatever. I have to fight it because often there’s some heavy things waning in my mind while I’m out there speaking. True. And when I get backstage, I’ve got to think these things through. I got to make a phone call and everything and people come up, everybody wants a piece of you. They always want to ask you a question.

On some days I just have to talk to myself and say, “Josh, these people are the most important people in your life right now for this moment. Listen to them. Look them in the eye.” But I’m sure there’s people out there that said, “Yeah, I was backstage with Josh and he’s not the friendliest guy in the world.” I’m sure there’s people who say that. And I can’t help doing that, but I can be aware of it and try to do it less.

Dr. Jeff Myers (31:13):
That’s a great word. I’m really grateful for it. I’m thinking about some of these countries that you’ve gone to and out of these, a lot of them are countries that are not friendly to Christianity, which means that the church there is under oppression. I’m just curious because it seems like this is happening in more and more countries and even starting to trickle into our own country. Could you just share some of your experiences about that and what your encouragement to them is?

Josh McDowell (31:56):
I love to go in countries that are in conflict, don’t like you as a Christian, everything. I love that. It turns my crank. I get juice from that. I’d rather go into a country like that than a friendly country. And I’ve done it over the years. I’ve done it many times. Controversial situations. Like back when I first went to Russia years ago, boy, there was tension. There was tension. And the first thing I would do, I would study that country. I would know its history, try to get key things in its history that when I talked, I could pull things out of their history and all.

And people, it blows their minds when you do that internationally. Second, I’m very direct with people. When I would go to Russia, somebody would challenge me and I’d look them in the eye and say, “What you said is really dumb. It’s stupid.” I’ve never called anyone dumb or anyone stupid. That’s different. But what you said, and I will say that, but you better back up, be ready to back up why it is dumb or stupid.

(33:25):
And the other thing I find in every country, I do this everywhere and anyone that’s heard me speak, they know I do it. But more so like I would do it in China and Russia and Bulgaria, Albania and all, is I’d always get to a meeting 45 minutes to an hour early and I go around and I just meet people. I go around and I talk and I don’t spend it in one area. I’ll go here, over here, down here, up here, go up to the balcony on the left, the right, the center, back down the back and the front.

And I walk up to people and sometimes I’ll scoot down to the 15th person in the row and say, “Hi, I’m Josh McDowell.” And I’d ask them, “What are you studying?” If they’re students, “What are you studying? What is your major? Tell me who’s one of the most important speakers they’ve had on campus.” And I’d always say apart from me recently and get a little joke out of that, but I would talk about them and here’s the thing when I would talk with one person like that, I’m influencing 20, 25 people. It’s like I’m being personal with them. And so when I get up to speak, they’re a little hesitant to shoot me down because I met them.

Dr. Jeff Myers (34:50):
You’re a friend.

Josh McDowell (34:51):
And I’m warm. I’m friendly. I’m talking about them. I’m asking questions and I get their names and whenever I go into an antagonistic country at every meeting I ask, “Who are several of the leaders of the antagonists here? Who are they?” They point them out to you. “What’s their name?” And I’d go up and introduce myself. I’d introduce myself. Then when I would get up to speak and you watch me, I do this quite often. I’ll get to a point where you know if somebody doesn’t agree with you, they’re really an idiot. Something that’s just so obvious it is true.

I would walk over and lean towards, say a person over here who’s really the antagonistic leader and I would say, “Tim, isn’t that true?” He has to agree with me because if he says no, he’s going to look like a fool. But when he says yes, he just gave me a good standing. And so I would do that with the audience. I’ll find out who the antagonist is. Janet, has that ever happened to you? Well, you know, I have to say yes.

And so those are just some of the things I do and they are techniques, but I do these things because I really want to communicate clearly the truth. And then I’ll do this. I was at Cornell, not Cornell. It was one of the schools around either Philadelphia, New York, private school, supposed to be very intellectual and they let it be known that this atheist group on campus was going to come and break up the meeting.

(36:46):
I could picture it right now. So I was backstage looking out praying over the audience and I said, “Who are those guys down in front?” About five guys and three girls. And these guys sat in the front row, threw their feet up on the stage, sat there like this. And he said, “Oh, they’re the ones that said they’re going to come and break up the meeting.” I said, “Really?” I said, “Okay.”

So they introduced me. As I walked out, people were all plowing. I made sure my mic was on and I walked up and here they are, their feet right in front of me thrown up on the stage. I leaned over and I pointed my finger and I said, “I’ve got your number and I can hardly wait for you to open your mouth. I’m going to bury you.”

(37:31):
And I never had that backfire. I never had that backfire and it would work. And then when I would come to something very obvious, I’d walk over and say, “Hey guys, isn’t that true?” Well, they wouldn’t say anything, but you knew they were saying yes in front of the whole audience. And then something else, if there’s one person who is really giving you a hard time yelling at you profane everything, I will walk down the stage.

I remember the last time I did this, I forget where it was. It was in the third row and I walked up to the front row, the person slid over a little and I leaned over and I started to talk to him about what I was saying, but I never looked him in the eye. You never lock eyes with an antagonist. That emboils him. What I did, I looked at the person on the right, I went up his right across his head, came down, spoke across his chest, da da da da da da da, down to the people in front. Every single time I’ve ever done that, many times the person will always sit down. It makes you feel like a fool standing there.

Dr. Jeff Myers (38:59):
Yes.

Josh McDowell (39:00):
And because you’re looking across his chest up, above him, over down the side, the bottom, right side, and they just sit down. And usually you do that one time in an audience, nobody else bothers you.

Dr. Jeff Myers (39:11):
Wow.

Josh McDowell (39:13):
But I do that because I want to communicate truth in a way that it’s understood.

Dr. Jeff Myers (39:20):
And you realize that.

Josh McDowell (39:21):
Plus I like it.

Dr. Jeff Myers (39:21):
They’re real people.

Josh McDowell (39:22):
I like it.

Dr. Jeff Myers (39:23):
Yeah. They’re real people who have real hearts and you want to reach them for the Lord. Hey, give us a final word just for this generation, vision. A lot of the people who are watching and listening right now are in their 20s and they could rise as leaders and just kind of look back at them and share something that you’d want them to know.

Josh McDowell (39:48):
There’s several global epidemics that were here before COVID-19. COVID-19, I’m going to mention them. COVID-19 did not cause them. COVID-19 intensified and magnified them. So you can’t say, “Well, when COVID’s over,” no, it’s going to be worse. Seven epidemics in every culture in the world. The first two are intellectual, critical race theory and social justice. Man, those are key all over the world and any speaker should be ready to address those or author or pastor.

Then there are four emotional epidemics, loneliness, depression, anxiety and grief. These are huge all over the world and they were true before the COVID lockdown. Think what’s happening with those during the lockdown with people and what’s going to happen afterwards. My fear is pastors, others are not going to be ready to address these.

Dr. Jeff Myers (41:09):
That’s right.

Josh McDowell (41:09):
Then the seventh one, which is actually to me, number one, the world, is moral. You have intellectual, emotional, then moral. And the moral epidemic is pornography. It’s so huge. It’s destroying more people, more relationships than anything ever has simultaneously in the world in history.

Dr. Jeff Myers (41:33):
Wow.

Josh McDowell (41:34):
As Czechsman Dahl says, it’s the greatest cancer in the history of the church. So you have these seven. We got to address them. And these are not just the United States. These are globally and they’re not just because of COVID.

Dr. Jeff Myers (41:56):
That’s right.

Josh McDowell (41:56):
They’re in spite of COVID.

Dr. Jeff Myers (41:57):
Wow. Yeah.

Josh McDowell (41:59):
Especially loneliness and depression. I’m doing this off the top of my head. 13 year olds to 25 year olds is the lowliest demographic in the world.

Dr. Jeff Myers (42:14):
Wow.

Josh McDowell (42:15):
Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (42:16):
Wow.

Josh McDowell (42:17):
And comes right after that depression. And so when you go into a lockdown, it adds to loneliness, as the depression really adds to anxiety and to grief. It’s a tsunami. It’s an accident waiting to happen down the road. And so people can go to my website, josh.org. That’s simple. Josh.org/loneliness, pornography, critical race theory, social justice, any of these things. And it’ll pop up extensive material for pastors, parents, for sermon preparation, for writing books, articles, everything, giving a talk. And it’s all documented and it’s free at josh.org.

Dr. Jeff Myers (43:15):
Josh.org. Okay. We’ve got a lot of things to prepare for in this season and I’m really grateful.

Josh McDowell (43:20):
But isn’t it great?

Dr. Jeff Myers (43:21):
It’s so amazing.

Josh McDowell (43:21):
It’s wonderful to be alive today.

Dr. Jeff Myers (43:24):
Absolutely. Josh, thanks for being part of the Dr. Jeff Show today. Thank you for joining us for the Dr. Jeff Show. The interview with Josh was amazing and I hope that you will go to josh.org and check out the resources that Josh McDowell has put there available for you for free. And also go to summit.org because Josh and so many of the other Summit speakers have really sage advice for you, help you stay strong in your faith and be confident in the Lord and to be passionate about your life purpose in times like these.

Ryan Dobson (43:59):
Hi, everyone. I’m Ryan Dobson from the Rebel Parenting Podcast. When my parents, Jim and Shirley Dobson sent me to the Summit Ministries Worldview Conference when I was 17, we had no idea the impact it would have on my life. It changed me so much in two short weeks, I’ve returned every summer for 34 years. This summer, your student can attend an in- person conference. That’s right, in person.

Summit Ministry’s Worldview Conference challenges students ages 16 to 24 to think deeper about their convictions and their faith by engaging with today’s top worldview thinkers and apologists. Can you imagine in person with other students learning about the Christian worldview? If not, they can attend Summit’s virtual experience and it’s amazing. Change your students’ life forever by partnering with Summit Ministry’s Worldview Conference today. Find out more by clicking the link in the show notes.