You Can’t Parent Alone: The Holy Spirit’s Role in Raising Kids | Ep. 58

Episode 58: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

In this episode of Upside Down Parenting, hosts Janel and Matt explore the Holy Spirit’s identity as a full member of the Trinity and his key roles in a believer’s life. These include convicting of sin, producing the fruit of the Spirit, teaching, empowering, and interceding in prayer. The hosts caution parents against trying to take on the Holy Spirit’s role by manipulating or shaming children into belief, and instead call them to faithfully love, teach, model, discipline, and pray, trusting that only God can transform a child’s heart.

Episode Transcript

Janel Greig (00:00):
Well, welcome back to Upside Down Parenting. As parents, it’s easy to spend our time searching for the right discipline strategy, the right technology boundaries, or the right parenting techniques. While those things certainly matter, they can also leave us feeling like the success of our parenting depends entirely on us. But scripture points us to something and someone far greater. Amen.

In today’s episode, we are talking about the person and the work of the Holy Spirit in parenting. Who is the Holy Spirit? What role does he play in the life of every Christian parent? How can we depend on his wisdom, strength, and guidance in the everyday moments of raising our children? And how does understanding the Holy Spirit free us from the burden of believing that we are responsible for changing our children’s hearts? Welcome back, Matt. I’m excited to hear your takes and thoughts on this one.

Dr. Matt Jones (00:53):
Well, I’m excited to hear yours too.

Janel Greig (00:54):
You know. Yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Matt Jones (00:56):
This is a hard topic. A difficult topic. Right?

Janel Greig (00:59):
It is. And it’s one that is personal to me because I think I neglected the Holy Spirit, and I still sometimes do unfortunately, but for a long time in my parenting, not realizing and understanding his distinct and essential role for us as believers, not just parents, but believers in a flourishing faith. And I think oftentimes that is the experience for us as Christians. So I’m excited for us to talk specifically about this with regards to parenting.

Dr. Matt Jones (01:26):
Well, and I appreciate you sharing the lack of emphasis on the spirit. Two reasons. One, there are times when I’m like, “Man, are you really there?” And so even though scripture makes it very clear in 1 Corinthians 6:6, if we’ve placed our faith in Jesus, the Holy Spirit is indwelling us and we need to be interacting in terms of walking by the Spirit, be full of the Spirit, submit to the Spirit. There are times when I’m like, are you there?

(01:53):
And whenever you’re making. I’ve been doing some research on how many decisions we make in a day, and I’ve read and seen anywhere from around 30,000 to 35,000. Oh, wow. And I’m just like, “I don’t know that I interact with the Spirit for all 35,000 decisions in a day.” And so where does the Holy Spirit fit in all this? And so hopefully this will give us some things to think about and wrestle with.

But when we think about this question of who is the Holy Spirit, we just want to make very clear the Holy Spirit is a member of the Trinity. The Trinity is one God, one essence with three persons, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And sometimes I’m guilty of, and in many circles within which I work and interact, he’s kind of the forgotten member of the Trinity.

(02:43):
And I even get uncomfortable saying he’s the third member of the Trinity because it indicates that, man, he’s not as important as the father or the son. And so I think he’s a person within the Trinity that is equally God. And sometimes I’m guilty of being binatarian in my life and development rather than Trinitarian.

And so I want to preface some of our conversation today that this is not something I have down, but I also want to say he is a vital member, not only of the Trinity, but also a vital member of what’s at work in our lives for our salvation, for our sanctification. So I don’t want to be guilty of him being the forgotten member of the Trinity who’s living and dwelling inside us. So what comes to mind whenever you hear the language Holy Spirit, Janel?

Janel Greig (03:38):
Yeah. For me now, Holy Spirit, He is our helper. He is our counselor. He is our friend. It’s those words that God’s word tells us the Holy Spirit is. Our comforter, our advocate, our teacher. In John 14:16: 17, we’re told he’s our helper. In John 14:26, we’re told he’s teaching us and revealing stuff to us. And I think it’s important.

Listeners, if you haven’t spent time in this area and maybe you’re identifying with, yeah, I’ve neglected the Holy Spirit. I haven’t yet realized his essential and distinct role in my life. I encourage you to spend some time in God’s word and in study and in prayer about that because as parents, we can’t pass on what we don’t possess. So if we’re not possessing an accurate understanding of the Holy Spirit, who He is and what He can do in our lives, we can’t pass that on and set an example of that for our kids.

Dr. Matt Jones (04:34):
Yeah. And I think sometimes it’s important whenever we’re interacting with our kids to just take the time and say, listen, I’m praying for wisdom from the Holy Spirit before we go on in this. And I haven’t said it that explicitly with my kids as they were growing up, but there are times when I’ll be sitting in the office with my students and I’ll just say, you just got to give me a second, or I’m praying right now. Because they’ll come in, well, how do you know the Holy Spirit’s at work?

And my wife and I were talking about this today because at the point she became a Christian, and I think it’s sometimes easier to recognize, for a person who comes, the distinction or the work of the Holy Spirit whenever you come to Christ later in life than earlier in life. That’s what I’ve observed. But I love what my wife said. It’s that as she was interacting, after she became a Christian, she prayed that she would receive the spirit and his work in her life.

(05:30):
And she describes him as powerful, but not pushy. Powerful, but not pushy. That’s perfect. Yeah. And there’s a power that his divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness. He’s not given us a spirit of timidity but of power.

But it seems that to a degree, he’s not making a person do what they want to, at least when it comes to conviction of sin or hey, there is a sin opportunity here for you to participate. And the spirit saying, listen, danger, Will Robinson. That’s an old lost in space reference. Sorry for those of you who didn’t watch that growing up.

Janel Greig (06:09):
I didn’t even catch that, Matt, but okay.

Dr. Matt Jones (06:11):
Okay. Well, that’s all right. But there seems to be a power there that we can rely on and yet doesn’t make us not sin. And I think that comes in part of his role in terms of teaching and comforting and powering, and we can break those down a little bit more. So when we think about this, what are some things that stand out to you in terms of what the Holy Spirit does or what he’s done in your life, Janel? If you want to start specifically, and we can talk more broadly.

Janel Greig (06:41):
Yeah, I think specifically if I’m thinking about. Well, there’s two things that I think of. One is the conviction. And I think that’s the conviction of sin. To me, that’s a big one because I think our society, Christian, our Christian society tends to dumb down, for lack of a better term, or soften the word sin. And I think we forget as believers, and this is something that we need to pass on to our kids, not with a sense of shame, but the severity, the weightiness, that our sin is what put Jesus on the cross.

And so our sin is something that we need to try and fix. If we sin, we need to repent. We need to correct our actions. That’s a big one for me with the Holy Spirit. And then I think the other one when I’m thinking of parenting, just in general with the Holy Spirit is I’m not the savior for my kids reminding me.

(07:35):
I’m not my kids’ savior. I’m doing my best with what the Lord has given me, but the Holy Spirit is what I want them to really recognize and find when they receive Jesus and the Holy Spirit to change their life. So those are the two that would jump out for me. What about you, Matt, with regards to the Holy Spirit and what he does?

Dr. Matt Jones (07:55):
Well, I appreciate you bringing out the conviction of sin because that is clear in John 16. And then of course, Acts two, that is one of his roles. And it has been cool over the years that we have entered into a situation with a child that I have not handled well, and I walk away from it. And man, the Holy Spirit just impresses upon my heart and simply says, Matt, that did not go well.

And sometimes he doesn’t tell me what that particular thing is, but thankfully he doesn’t give up on me many times because I can be really stubborn or heart of heart. And he says, listen, you created disunity or that way in which you handled that was not with grace and truth or whatever it was. And there’s been a prompting, not only the conviction of sin, but the importance of going back and asking for forgiveness from the child or from the spouse.

(08:50):
And I think being able to recognize that is so important because I don’t know about you, Janelle, and this may sound weird, but I have a lot of voices going on in my head. I have mine, my selfish, I also have my conscience. And sometimes I think it’s hard to discern between the God-given conscience and the work of the spirit. Hopefully they’re working together. I think sometimes, and this may get me in a little bit of trouble, but according to Ephesians 6, that the enemy is trying to cause division.

And so sometimes I hear the enemy’s voice. And to be in prayer, to be in the word, to be in community is so important to be able to recognize that still small voice of the spirit working. And many times what I think many of us as parents are lacking is that we don’t have enough scripture hidden in our heart for the Holy Spirit to bring to our heart and mind this conviction, this regeneration that he’s wanting to develop in us to recognize whenever we’re not walking according to his direction.

(09:58):
And so I think about the conviction of sin. Did you have any comments or questions on that? I mean, I didn’t really pause for you to talk about the different voices in your head. Am I just kind of weird?

Janel Greig (10:08):
No, I appreciate that transparency because I think if we’re all honest, we probably have those multiple voices. I do think we’re living in a time where people for, I don’t want to make a sweeping statement. A lot of Christians aren’t spending time in God’s word and are not familiar with what God’s word says. The Holy Spirit reveals to us God’s truth. And so if we’re hearing those different voices and we’re not in God’s word to measure what God’s word says with the voices that we’re hearing, we don’t know what’s true.

But if you’re spending time, like you said, Matt, putting that scripture in our hearts. And as parents, we should be setting that example for our kids. But if we’re not in God’s word, we don’t have that measuring stick to know, oh, this voice is aligning with it. This is the conviction of the Holy Spirit. We call that the Holy Spirit nudge. But yeah, no, good points.

Dr. Matt Jones (10:57):
Well, and the other thing that comes up, and a lot of our listeners are probably familiar with this, but the work of the Spirit, it does produce the fruit of the Spirit. Yes. And I love that in the language, even though I hear a lot of people, “I have the fruits of the Spirit.” No, it’s actually one. And it expresses itself in love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

And so when I think about that particular component, the result of having the Holy Spirit in you is that it’s going to produce fruit. It’s evidence of that. And so what’s been really cool is having those in mind, that when interacting with the children, at times, the Holy Spirit will just bring up the word lack of love or the phrase lack of love or lack of peace or lack of gentleness.

(11:49):
Or as I walked away, some of that language, some of those words would come up and I’m like, “Well, wait a minute. Is there something I need to ask for forgiveness for?” And unfortunately, I’m talking a lot of reactive elements, but there are also some proactive. Whenever we go into a situation, I will say, okay, spirit, lead and guide and give wisdom. Because he guides according to John 16:13. He teaches according to John 14. He empowers according to Acts 1:8, and we can go over those passages. And of course, 2 Timothy 1:7, God has given us a spirit, not a fear, but of power and love and self-control.

And so whenever I go into a situation and I have not demonstrated self-control, it’s very clear in that moment I have not walked according to the spirit. And so I think those are pretty cool indicators of, in different situations, can I walk in, first of all, acknowledging, hey, the spirit wants to produce this fruit in my life. But then second of all, if it isn’t produced, what was my role in that hindrance?

(13:02):
So what are some couple things that you do to depend on the Holy Spirit as a parent? And I know we’ve kind of hinted at a few of those or said those, but what’s been important for you in that, Janel?

Janel Greig (13:13):
I think the specific focus in my prayers. And for me, again, I’m going to go back to, it’s the sin component. Spirit reveal to me hidden sin, reveal to me sin that I have maybe softened. Because when that sin is there, there’s a roadblock to what we’re missing out on that the spirit can provide to us when you talk about the fruit of the spirit.

I think as a parent, one of the things I do practice is when I see in my kids, one of our kids is so sensitive to asking for forgiveness and wanting to always make right immediately when something happens. And I think there can be the flip side of that where it’s, man, you don’t need to say sorry for everything. That didn’t merit an apology. And then because it does bring shame and guilt with it that’s not necessary.

(14:07):
But we do have one child who’s so sensitive, and I tell him that, and he’ll come and apologize to make right. And I tell him, I’m so grateful to see the Holy Spirit is active because you are so sensitive to that and you’re making that right. You’re coming to the person that you’ve wronged or to the scenario you’re wrong. And so I think there is a component of calling that out in our kids too, not in a way that puffs up, but in a way that recognizes so that they know they can trust that or this is what can come from walking closely and being sensitive to the Holy Spirit.

Dr. Matt Jones (14:42):
Well, and my wife, and it would be interesting to do a study to discern whether or not women are more sensitive to the prompting of the spirit than men, because my wife really, she done a phenomenal job with the kids whenever they would sit down and pray and say, “Okay, let’s pursue understanding what the spirit may be saying to us here.”

And she was more, even though I’ve got the theological background and am pointing out at the beginning, listen, many times we’re binutarian rather than Trinitarian. She really did a better job modeling that with our kids. And so that would be an interesting study. Now you brought up roles earlier in terms of what roles belong to us and what roles belong to the Holy Spirit. And how did you come to that conclusion that there is a different role or things that you are responsible for versus the Holy Spirit being responsible for?

Janel Greig (15:40):
I think that was through probably a little bit of self-guilt of that self-help versus the Holy Spirit’s help. Wanting to help my children find the Lord and essentially have the fruit of the spirit, have self-control, do this, change those behaviors. But then actually coming to the realization of, no, this is the act of the Holy Spirit. That will be the fruit of that when they’re doing that. I think as a parent, for me, it was a little bit of a, I can release this. And there’s a trust in that.

Because as parents, oftentimes we do want to control. But knowing these kids are the Lords and He loves them more than I can ever love them. And I can only do the work that I’m able to do, but using the Holy Spirit, activating that. For you, how do you think you’ve depended or found that difference between what you are doing as a parent versus the dependence on the Holy Spirit as a parent?

Dr. Matt Jones (16:39):
Yeah, that’s a really good question. I think one of my biggest mistakes and failures early on in not only ministry, but also in parenting was, so I’ll say this as well as I can, I tried to be the Holy Spirit. I tried to convince the kid or the student or the listener in the audience that something was right or was wrong. And it’s the Holy Spirit’s role to convict. There’s an interesting dichotomy between trying to figure out what’s the difference between shame and conviction.

(17:18):
And I think shame says you are bad. Conviction says what you’ve done was bad. And I think there’s a big distinction there. And I don’t think if it’s the Holy Spirit, it’s saying, okay, I lied in this situation. And the Holy Spirit’s saying, Matt, you lied, not you are a liar.

Janel Greig (17:40):
Yes. Yes.

Dr. Matt Jones (17:41):
And I think that’s a key distinction there to help you discern what that voice is. But I tried to be the Holy Spirit in situations. I tried to make a person or make my kid believe or do. And sometimes you do have to say, listen kid, you need to do the dishes or do your laundry or whatever, whether the Holy Spirit has changed their hearts or not. I don’t want to say that. But having said that, it’s their job to change their heart and mind and convince them of the truth, and it’s not mine.

And so I’m going to love, I’m going to teach, I’m going to model, I’m going to discipline. I am going to encourage, I’m going to pray, and I’m going to appoint the child to Christ, but it is not my job to convict them of their need for Christ or shame them into wanting to come to Christ because that seems to be, first of all, the shame is not the approach, but the conviction is really upon the Holy Spirit.

(18:41):
So that has been a huge distinction for me. I have tried. I think the other way to recognize it too is, am I trying to manipulate the person in the situation? If I’m trying to manipulate the child to get them to do what I want them to do or to believe what I want them to believe, that’s definitely not of the spirit. And so hopefully those are things for us to sit back and think about.

(19:07):
Because there have been times when the Holy Spirit has said, Matt, your approach to this is not relying on me. It’s relying on your ability to argue well or your ability to corner a person or whatever that language is. And man, that’s really hard for me because I know the direction they’re going is not good for them.

Janel Greig (19:30):
Yeah.

Dr. Matt Jones (19:31):
And I want to protect them, but then that usually is a demonstration of my lack of faith, not only in the Father’s love, but also in the work of the spirit behind the scenes. And so I think even if I rely more on the spirit and am connected to the work of the spirit more, maybe I’d trust God more to accomplish what he wants to accomplish in order that drives them to Christ and removes or reduces the wedge between me and my kid who I’ve tried to manipulate or control or shame or blame. Is that talking too much off the top of my head here, Janel?

Janel Greig (20:11):
No, I think that’s good, Matt. And I think there’s a revealing of, Holy Spirit reveal to me what I’m lacking because I’m trying to control. I’m not where I need to be in the space.

Dr. Matt Jones (20:26):
Can I add one more thing in terms of the importance of the spirit that we really haven’t talked about? I really do think that a role of the spirit is to make us more like Jesus. Amen. What was the passage? I don’t have that one memorized. Sorry. I talked about memorizing scripture and I don’t have that one memorized. Where are my notes here? Anyway, I lost it. It was 1 Corinthians, I think.

Janel Greig (20:50):
Is it 2 Corinthians 3:18?

Dr. Matt Jones (20:52):
There you go. 2 Corinthians 3. And I am of the sprung conviction, and this is one of the reasons I wrote on the humanity of Jesus in Matthew’s gospel, that we are created as image bearers. And as image bearers, we get to reflect God’s character and his priorities. We get to bear the essence of that which we worship.

(21:13):
And in the New Testament, Paul says, “Let us therefore be imitators of me as I am of Christ.” And when I talk about, listen, we have the capacity to be like Jesus. I get pushback on that. And yet when we look at Jesus’ life and what he does, he does, at least according to Luke chapter 4, what he does by the power of the spirit. And the same spirit living and dwelling in Christ is the same spirit living and dwelling in us. And granted, Jesus is truly human, truly divine, but there’s something to be said for even Jesus acknowledging that it seems he does things by the spirit of God. Matthew 12, Luke 4.

(21:54):
And so I don’t want to lose sight of, because we’re image bearers, because we have the Holy Spirit, we have the capacity to become more like Jesus. And I think as parents, we can do that, but that takes priorities and valuing that. And I just want to say that’s not an expectation to be perfect. That’s an expectation to reflect, here’s what Jesus pursues. Here’s what he cares about. And I think that will benefit your children immensely if you seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness. And so I just wanted to make sure we didn’t leave that important and key component out there.

Janel Greig (22:36):
That’s good. So how do you think, Matt, we should depend on the Holy Spirit as parents? Or how can we depend on the Holy Spirit as parents?

Dr. Matt Jones (22:45):
Yeah, I think again, we’ve hinted at that and saying, listen, we need to be in scripture. We need to acknowledge that the spirit is at work. And developing that ability to hear those voices and discern which one is the spirit. It takes time.

(23:02):
I think the other thing too is walking by the spirit, is knowing what you believe and why and making sure those things correspond to the truth of reality and what God’s word teaches. They develop habits. They develop rhythms to where the spirit may, I want to be very careful with how I say this, may be able to say, “All right, they’re walking according to the way that I have been leading and guiding them.” And so the voice may not need to be as apparent because they have become supernatural products in how you live the life that God’s given you.

Wow, they finally come to the understanding of love and joy and peace and patience. And I am going to step up and speak a little bit more whenever they become selfish in these areas or convicted. We need to be listening to wise pastors, good podcasts and recognize that.

(23:59):
Oh, how do I want to say this also? It’s just so tenuous that if you think it’s the Holy Spirit’s leading and guiding you in a way that’s contrary to the character and priorities of Christ or from scripture, you’re probably not listening to the spirit at that point.

(24:13):
And so those are a couple of things that I want to acknowledge. And one you have written down here that I leave out sometimes is cultivate repentance. Man, it develops that sensitivity to the spirit that you and I have the humility to recognize he’s at work, he’s leading, he’s guiding, and we’re going to do repentance. Oh, just one more came to mind. Yeah.

One thing that comes up a lot for me is whenever the Holy Spirit brings a name of a person up, that usually is an indicator of someone that I need to pray for. And as I’m walking, I walk to and from. And sometimes they’ll say, “Hey, connect with that person.” And so I’ll just reach out. And so that was one I didn’t want to leave out. I feel like there’s some rambling here, but anything to add or subtract? It’s good. Or even correct, Janel.

Janel Greig (25:06):
There is absolutely nothing there I’d correct, Matt. I would just continue to add, and we’ve said this over and over, and we’ll say it over and over again, prayer. Just that focus on prayer for what I need as a parent to parent in the Holy Spirit is something that’s so important. And the component, I can’t think of the scripture. Matt, maybe you can because you’ve got these.

But when you don’t have the words, the Holy Spirit knows our groanings. He knows what our prayers are. So parents that let that be a little bit of a relief for you too when you don’t have the right words or you don’t know what to pray for your children, the Holy Spirit does.

Dr. Matt Jones (25:43):
Yeah. The Holy Spirit’s interceding for us according to Romans 8. So you help me with one, I’ll help you with that one. All right. Well folks, thanks so much for joining us today and this conversation. Our hope is this episode has encouraged you to rely less on your own strength, acknowledge the importance of and role of the spirit in your life because he faithfully guides, equips, and empowers every Christian parent. And I think really the key is he is at work. First of all, do we believe it? Second of all, are we attuning our hearts and our minds to be able to recognize that?

Remember, you’re called to faithfully love, teach, model, discipline and pray, but only God can transform a child’s heart. If you have questions or if this episode encouraged you, please let us know at podcast@summit.org. Thank you for listening. And Janel, thanks for doing this really interesting and difficult topic with me today. We’ll see you all next time.

Janel Greig (26:39):
Thanks, Matt.