When Adult Kids Pull Away: How to Resolve Conflict & Find Peace w/ Kathy Koch | Ep. 48

Episode 48: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

In this episode, Dr. Kathy Koch discusses her new book, Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children. In it, she focuses on helping parents navigate conflict and distance with their adult children through faith-based, practical strategies that shift parenting from control to influence and respect. Dr. Kathy addresses the damage of overparenting and unsolicited advice, and she urges parents and grandparents to step back, affirm what’s good, and only “parent” when invited.

Dr. Kathy encourages parents to prepare younger children for adulthood through resilience, values, discernment, finances, and identity in Christ. Throughout, she calls parents to examine their own hearts, release regret, avoid idolizing their children, and ultimately place their hope not in themselves or their kids but in God.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Matt Jones (00:00):
Navigating relationships with adult children can be one of the most challenging and rewarding seasons of parenting. When communication breaks down or conflict occurs or you just don’t know what that adult child is doing, it can lead to tension, distance, and even heartbreak, but conflict doesn’t have to define or end the relationship. Dr. Kathy Koch has joined us today as a result of her new book, Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children.

We are so excited to have Dr. Koch. She shares practical faith-based strategies to help parents rebuild connection, set healthy boundaries, and find lasting peace. So if you’re feeling a little frustrated and unsure on how to move forward with this, Dr. Koch is here to help us engage in that conversation to offer us tools and encouragement that we need to strengthen your relationship and just rediscover joy with that. And I say we need, because Dr. Kathy, we’re so excited to have you today.

(01:02):
Janel is about to enter into that, nearing adulthood children, and I just had one of my kids get married a month ago. So I’m hoping you give me some great advice today. As I know, you’ve had so many moments of great advice at Summit Ministries whenever we’ve been up there together this summer. So thank you for joining us.

Dr. Kathy Koch (01:23):
Yeah. Happy to be here and I hope the advice will be solid. That’s good. I’ll try for that.

Dr. Matt Jones (01:29):
I have no doubt. And I just got to start with, what was the catalyst for you writing this book?

Dr. Kathy Koch (01:35):
Yeah. Thanks for asking that, Matt. Two things. One is, the grief is real out there. As I travel and speak to families in a variety of contexts, church, school, conference settings, I’m hearing more and more parents saying, “I thought by now I’d be friends with my kids. I thought I did everything right so that we could be friends and something went wrong and they won’t even speak to me.” So it really grieves me. It grieves God that concerns me.

God ordained the family before the church and it matters greatly to him. So, sadness. I’ve been an author for almost 20 years. So my readers have really grown up with me and many of them who have followed me a long time have these adult kids and I wanted to encourage them and hopefully provide some answers. The other motivation is that I come from a beautiful multi-generational family, not a biblical worldview family.

(02:20):
I was raised in church, but not by Christians. But I grew up kitty cornered from one set of grandparents. My dad cut a hole in the fence. I lived about three blocks from the other grandparents and I saw my grandparents on a regular basis, went to church with them, went to school with one set of cousins, church with the other set of cousins. My brother married my best friend. I have a beautiful family and I’ve experienced the benefit of many people speaking into my life. And I want that for today’s kids, grandkids, parents, and grieves me. I hopefully wrote a book that matters.

Dr. Matt Jones (02:51):
Well, it’s definitely a book that can, well, as I’ve been engaging in, it’s definitely a book that gives some great practical advice in dealing with and giving insight on how to not only engage with adult children, but also talk through some conflict. And I’m hoping that we get some practical steps on this.

But I want to step back and ask, we need to have a bigger conversation about this particular adult children phenomenon. Are there any patterns or frustrations or similarities in these conversations that come up that say, “Wow, we need to deal with this particular element of engaging in adult children.”

Dr. Kathy Koch (03:32):
One of the most common concerns I’ve heard from the adult children is that they don’t feel respected. They feel like their parents are still trying to parent them. And as I address in the book, we can’t do that once they’ve graduated into that adult phase and don’t ask me if it’s 18, 21, 23.

(03:49):
That depends. But when they become adults or no longer in the home or they’re in the home, but they’ve graduated from high school, we can’t parent them in the same way. We have to transition to a different pattern. And if we don’t, they feel that we’ve imposed our perspective on theirs and they don’t want us to be involved. They want us to know their business but not be involved in their business, I think would be maybe one of the ways I would say it. So the disrespect that we show them when we provide advice that they didn’t ask for is huge.

Another theme that’s become very evident in our work is that, and I don’t say this lightly, you guys, but if we helicoptered our kids and the motivation for that is usually really pure. You loved well, you didn’t want them to spill their milk, you didn’t want them to not make the team, so you reminded them to practice, you didn’t want them to starve. So you said, “Hey, grab your lunch,” as they were going out the door to school. And they appreciated all that input when they were younger. They didn’t want to look foolish or starve to death, right? So that was really good.

If the only parent they’ve known though is an over involved and over parenting parent, then they don’t imagine that the parent, it’s usually the mom, can step away from that and parent from a distance. If they don’t think the parent can change the pattern of parenting, then they have distanced themselves from the parents. That’s one of the major reasons they’ve done that. And of course, you can’t go back and re-parent. So I don’t want any of our listeners to feel shame and guilt right now.

(05:11):
You guys parented the best that you knew how to parent in the moment. I’m not saying you did anything wrong. However, you now have to convince your kids that you do want to launch them independently from you and you do need to learn to step back and not follow them on an app all the time, not question their every move, but give them some freedom.

Janel Greig (05:30):
Yeah, that’s great. One of the things I really clung to in your book, Kathy, and as Matt said, I’m not quite to this stage yet, but I look at it as I’m reading your book and I love it from my relationship with my parents, but also then what’s next for my kids. And you use the term, the term “parent” changes to a verb and I love that.

And so parents can’t or shouldn’t be parenting unless they’re invited to in that stage. It is a difficult shift, especially for those that have done the helicopter parenting. But after years of being responsible for guiding, correcting, protecting. So what does that actually look like in real life to move from control as a parent to influence? And where do you see parents struggling most in that transition?

Dr. Kathy Koch (06:16):
Yeah, I appreciate those comments, Janel. I write in the very, very beginning of the book that you’ll always be a parent, your child will always be a child. Those nouns will never shift, but you can’t parent verb without permission. If they ask you, then absolutely provide instruction. Don’t give opinion. Opinions are weak. And if you parent with opinion, then you’re giving them permission to live with their opinions and that might not be a good thing for them.

So we do need to transition to a guide, be a support, coach, a counselor and ideally a friend. Big struggle if we’ve been over involved. Big struggle if our kids have made mistakes. And this is a reality, that they learn from mistakes. But if you raised a kid who stayed down in the valley or a kid who’s been impulsive or a kid who doesn’t have a good discernment for wisdom and is maybe captivated by even sin, then of course you’re going to want to continue your parenting journey.

(07:08):
But again, I just don’t recommend it. So you got to praise, Janel. I don’t think there’s any way for a parent to pivot from an involved parent. By the way, you think you’re in control. By the way, none of you are in control. There’s no parent listening who has ever had control. God’s in control.

Dr. Matt Jones (07:22):
Yeah. Ecclesiastes is pretty clear on that one.

Dr. Kathy Koch (07:26):
Yeah. And yet we thought that we were in control. And so I think we pray that God would compel us to have our hands off to an extent that we ask permission to direct their thoughts. We pray in the distance. We remember God loves them more than we ever would or could. Those are some basic kinds of things that I think are essential.

And then we live a life that models what we want them to have, which is wisdom and joy and unconditional love for others in their world. Those are the kinds of things that I think of. The other thing I’ll say, Janel, and this won’t be easy for people to hear either. And let me just insert, this was not an easy book to write because most of the parents I’ve spoken with want their adult children to be at fault. I don’t know if you guys remember chapter two. Chapter two is look at yourself first.

(08:17):
And I’ve had people say, I wanted to skip that chapter, but I couldn’t. Praise God. It’s chapter two on purpose because although we are not at fault for lots of things, we didn’t do anything intentionally wrong. There’s an interpretation that’s happened. They’re believing the lie and the liar and things like that. But I do think that we have to agree that we could have made some mistakes here and we have to own that. And I think that’s an essential reality here.

Janel Greig (08:43):
All right. Dr. Kathy, those are great thoughts. I appreciate that. Can you talk a little bit about to the parents who this may seem a little far off. If they’ve got littles at home and they’re in the mix of an art, “Oh, we’ve got plenty of time before that launching, before that next stage.” What tips might you have besides pray, pray, pray, pray for those parents to start preparing now, to be prepared for those shifting years from parenting to consulting?

Dr. Kathy Koch (09:10):
Actually, I really like that question. I’m hoping that my book is preventative for people and that they will read it hoping that they will have the best relationship possible. And the book is for people who have great relationships. The book isn’t only for people who struggle. There’s a lot of wisdom there for people who are doing really well and want to keep doing that really well.

But the first thing I would say, Janel, is what we’ve already talked about, and that is don’t overparent. If you overparent and you smother, they may resent that down the road. In fact, they most predominantly will. Most of the research would say that. So be careful of providing instruction and insight and wisdom and yet letting them flourish on their own, even while they’re middle schoolers and high schoolers and let them suffer the consequences of their foolishness.

(09:51):
I wrote a whole book on resilient kids because if we overparent and we overprotect and they don’t learn how to recover from disappointment, they will boomerang back home because they don’t know how to do things on their own. So I think that we’ve got to be really careful of that. And I think teach your values and don’t assume they’ll pick them up by living with you. There are things that kids can teach. There’s a common phrase more as caught than taught. I’m going to go on record to say that I think that’s only true because we don’t teach.

(10:22):
I think we need to teach. Kids are sponges for sin, if I can be that bold. Kids are sponges. The sin nature is easy. You don’t have to teach any kid to grumble or argue. And we come to it naturally too. Let’s be honest here. It’s default. So I think we teach the values.

As an example, why do you, as a married couple, why do you give some money to pro- life causes? Why did you dress up and go to a banquet on Thursday night because it was for a pro-life center? Or why do you care about trafficking and why do you support that and why do you vote the way you vote? You should not assume that your kids by living with you will know that, but don’t you want to pass on values? The reason you’re a family is to pass on values.

(11:01):
I think that’s a God-given belief as well. So teach the values, teach why wisdom is better than knowledge. Joy is better than happiness. Truth is better than the lie, et cetera. Don’t assume they’ll figure it out. Talk it, live it out, challenge it, correct it, affirm it. And so that it’s more likely that you’re going to be launching kids who model their lives after you, which is after the Lord. Don’t assume they’re going to pick it up because I live with you. I think that I could write a whole book on that.

Janel Greig (11:26):
That’s the next one, maybe.

Dr. Matt Jones (11:27):
Do we get credit for that next book idea then, Dr. Kathy, since it came out here?

Dr. Kathy Koch (11:34):
I love that.

Dr. Matt Jones (11:37):
We have several questions we’re going to ask and whenever you’re talking, I’m like, “Oh, I’ve got this question, this question.” I do have to ask, because I’ve heard you speak at Summit several times and you are, or if not one of the most, the most engaging speakers. And they have you late at night and the students just even from 9 to 10 o’clock at night, they are all in with you.

And I’m just curious, where did you get your sense of humor? Because there’s a couple things you’ve said and I’ve laughed. I’m like, I don’t want the audience to think that I’m laughing at you, because it’s just so ironic some of the things you say. So where did you get that sense of humor? Speaking of family values.

Dr. Kathy Koch (12:13):
Well, I appreciate that question. I love Summit Ministries. I love speaking. I’m so excited I get to do them all this summer. So it’s a gift.

Dr. Matt Jones (12:20):
Oh, cool.

Dr. Kathy Koch (12:20):
It’s a teaching gift, Matt. It’s a teaching gift. If you were to know me away from the microphone, you would never describe me as funny. In fact, the first time my mom heard me speak, I had earned a PhD. I was at a secular convention for reading educators and I was teaching about oral reading and how you can teach children to read orally well, which sounds like such a dry and boring topic.

I got to the back of the auditorium. Hundreds of people had been in the room. I packed up my computer, walked to the back of the room, my mom was there and I said, “So what did you think?” And the first words out of her mouth were, “You were funny.” She didn’t know I could be funny. I’m not funny except the microphone brings it out. Why? Because I’m gifted by God to teach.

(12:59):
I also, and I’m grateful to him. There’s a teaching gift. I have three degrees in education, so I’m a former professor, teacher, coach, school board member. I know how to teach, but I know the students and I know the culture and the reason I’m funny or a reason, I don’t know if you know this, Matt, but I’m going to give away a secret.

Dr. Matt Jones (13:16):
Okay. I’m all in.

Dr. Kathy Koch (13:17):
Okay, here we go. My humor is strategically planned. I usually am “funny” when I want to anchor a significant point. So when I see the students at Summit grieving or breathing deeply or leaning in, I’ve said something provocative. I’ve said something that might be controversial. I’ve said something that will awaken them to truth and they’re going to have to decide whether or not they want to agree with me or continue down the path they’re on.

I will then do something or say something that might have a bit of humor because that engages the heart and the heart engages memory. So I’m actually pretty strategic in that. I also, Matt, I teach people I don’t teach content. I teach people not content and that means that I am responsive to the spirits leading within the group. And I’ll do that wherever I go.

(14:02):
Next week I’ll be at a Christian school in Philadelphia, then I’ll be at a huge homeschool convention and I will teach the people in the room, not the content on the piece of paper in front of me and that changes everything.

Dr. Matt Jones (14:12):
Yeah, that’s awesome. And so I appreciate you allowing me to go off a little bit in a direction because we as teachers, I mean, we’re all parents, we should be teachers and I think some parents aren’t intentional enough with their humor and other skills to get their kids attention. So you mentioned in your book how children become idols. So this question’s twofold. What does it mean for a child to become an idol? And then how does a parent begin to recognize that their child has become an idol?

Dr. Kathy Koch (14:42):
I love that you’re asking about that. We’re created to worship. We are created to worship. We’re going to worship something or someone. And if it’s not God, we’re going to find a substitute and the substitute will grieve God and ultimately not fulfill us.

But a way that we know that we’re idolizing our kids is that our happiness depends upon their happiness. So they become the center of all your thoughts, all your prayers, all your wishes and dreams. And if your kids have a bad day, you have a bad day. If they have a good day, you have a good day. You might’ve had a terrible day, but it was good if they had a good day.

That’s idol worship. That’s depending upon a kid to meet your needs. And when I interviewed adult children, they feel the pressure. And I’ve had people of all ages, actually I’ve had teenagers say to me, “I don’t believe my job is to keep my mom happy.” And so the pressure that they’re feeling is really damaging to their soul and certainly damaging to our relationship.

(15:32):
So how do you know it? You depend upon them for your joy and you think about them and would do almost anything for them. And again, there can be love there, right? This is what’s so awkward. There can be love there. Now I think you asked me a two-part question, Matt, what were the two parts?

Dr. Matt Jones (15:49):
So how can a parent recognize a child as an idol? And I think you kind of answered that.

Dr. Kathy Koch (15:55):
I think I answered that.

Dr. Matt Jones (15:55):
Yeah. Because again, we call it in our family. We say, we are not going to allow you kids to be the belly button of the family or the universe. So you just say it more tactilely than we do. So thank you.

Dr. Kathy Koch (16:06):
Yeah. Cool. Cool.

Janel Greig (16:09):
Grandparents. Let’s talk about grandparents for a minute, Dr. Kathy. I think grandparents for them, one of the hardest challenges that I’ve heard and that we’ve probably all heard is when they’re watching their grandchildren be raised in a way that they wouldn’t choose. Maybe that’s not the values and what they instilled in their own children. So there might even be guilt there or frustration with that. But when there’s real disagreement with how they’re seeing their grandchildren being raised, values, discipline, faith, how can those grandparents navigate that tension without damaging the relationship?

Dr. Kathy Koch (16:40):
Right. The relationships are often already damaged, which is really sad. It’s in the research and I’ve heard about it from more people than I would like to name or even think about. So one of the reasons that it’s a challenge, we did have values. We hope that those would be passed on. Our sons and daughters have married other people with other values and the culture’s changed.

The culture’s chaotic. People are messy. There are very different values now. There are entire denominations that have changed what the Bible says. They’ve tried to, if you will, white out some verses that would be important to those of us that have a biblical, sexual ethic, et cetera, et cetera. So it is real disagreement. How do parents navigate the tension by really keeping their mouth shut as often as possible? You need to remember, and this is hard, you need to remember they’re not your children.

(17:29):
They are your grandchildren. They’re grand children, they’re not yours. And you need to release them to the Lord, remembering that God loves them and cares more deeply about them than you ever could or would. And we support our children. And one of the things we have to do is compliment and affirm them when they’re doing something right.

When we see that they love well, when we see that our son goes to as many soccer games as possible, I hope we would say, “Man, James, I love that you’ve sacrificed your schedule for George. I love that you’re there at the games.” I enjoyed that too when you played soccer. When we see that our daughter or daughter-in-law is presenting healthy food options or consistent bedtimes or whatever, we say, “Man, I’m really pleased that you prioritize the health of the grandkids.” So prioritize what is good.

(18:10):
We’ve got to have the eyes to see what is good. We have to get the red pen out of our hand, if you will, and put a green pen in our hand, because the disrespect that they feel when we enter their homes and judge them now and you have a right to your thoughts. Again, maybe they are eating more sugar than you would prefer. Maybe they have a flexible bedtime and you don’t think it’s good.

But could I also say, Matt and Janel, and to our listeners, that difference isn’t always bad. Different is different. And it’s possible that they’re doing a fine job. And please also understand, and I wonder if you can hear the seriousness in my voice, you’re only seeing a slice of life. You’re there every Tuesday night to help out and to babysit when your son and daughter-in-law go to a Bible study, praise God that they’re going.

(18:52):
Your grandkids are going to be out of control on a Tuesday night because it’s you. They’re excited to see you. They know they can manipulate you at bedtime in ways that they can’t manipulate their parents. Maybe mom and dad give them a treat so that they’ll actually be more joyful when you’re there. I mean, I don’t know the whole story, but I know that the chances are that what you’re seeing on a Tuesday night is not what you would see if you were the parents Monday through Tuesday, if you will, Monday through the following Monday.

So let’s be careful of judgment, let’s be careful of assumption. Let’s ask questions. I’m just curious why you value this? Why do you always have the TV on during dinner? You do and you must feel like it works. Can I just ask what? Now you could ask that. Now they’re going to hear it as judgment.

Jim Burns says, and I write about this in the book, that all unsolicited advice comes across as criticism. I think that’s true in marriage. I think it’s true between teachers and students. I think it’s true with colleagues that all unsolicited advice comes across as criticism. Questions come across as disagreeable and disagreements. The assumption is, oh, my mom must not agree that the TV should be on. That’s why she’s asking. So be careful because it’s not your home and they’re not your kids.

Dr. Matt Jones (20:02):
That’s a great point. Yeah, it is. And I just want to throw out, when do you step in and say something, Dr. Kathy, at what point do you, because that was modeled with my parents and we thrived under that, but there were a couple times when we, my wife and I look back, we go, “Wow, I wish mom and dad had said something.” So is there a time and what time is that? If there is.

Dr. Kathy Koch (20:31):
No, that’s a good question. There is. I think again, if you’re in a good relationship with your kids, then I think you have more of a right to speak up. If you’re really in a challenging situation, then again, you have to earn the right by being present, by being careful, by being positive. And then you ask permission.

“Hey, I’ve noticed a couple of things that intrigued me. I do have some…” Don’t say opinion. “I have some instruction. I have some input that I think could be valuable. Let me know if you’re interested, and if not, I’m going to respect you in that.” So I think that’s an approach. And the other thing I would say, Matt, is that evidence doesn’t lie. And I’d love our audience to repeat that out loud. Evidence doesn’t lie.

Dr. Matt Jones (21:08):
Evidence doesn’t lie. I did it.

Dr. Kathy Koch (21:09):
Okay, thank you. If we see that our kids, let’s say that we spend the night and we’re up with them in the morning and they’re hard to get up. They’re cranky in the morning. If they’re demanding and critical, if we see that their sibling relationship is not healthy, that would be a red flag to me because the family is ordained by God, siblings are supposed to be best friends for a lifetime. And to anyone listening where that hasn’t happened, it makes me sad.

So we parent, hoping that, of course, our sons and daughters will be friends and potentially best friends. So evidence doesn’t lie. If you see that their character is not biblical, you see that their attitudes are not loving, you see that their beliefs are going sideways and you have evidence of that, then that’s what you talk about because evidence doesn’t lie. Yeah, I’ll leave it at that.

Dr. Matt Jones (21:56):
Okay.

Janel Greig (21:58):
Dr. Kathy, can I ask a question for parents that might be listening? And maybe they’re in this stage of where their kids have launched and they have some tricky relationships and they look back and do hold some guilt on how they’ve done something and maybe it’s a desire to mend a relationship so they can be involved in the grandkids’ life more. What advice or tips would you give to them for whether it’s communication or just approach? And you’ve spoken to this a little bit with that posture of humility, but what would you say to those listeners?

Dr. Kathy Koch (22:27):
I love the question and posture of humility. That’s a great phrase. Thanks for saying that. So here’s the thing that I believe is true. I believe most parents look back with today’s wisdom and I’m very harsh on themselves. And that’s why I write in the book about the if only is and the what ifs. So you’re like, “What if we never would’ve changed churches or what if we would’ve changed churches?” Or, “Oh, if only I would’ve told my daughter not to date that guy.” Or, “Oh, if only we wouldn’t have relocated across town at grade nine and he had to transition to a new school.”

Now, to live with regret is just not healthy. I get it because you love deeply, but it’s not healthy. And we’re looking back, like people have said already about this book, it’s only been out three weeks and they’re like, “Oh, I wish I would’ve had the book five years ago.” Well, you didn’t have the book five years ago.

(23:12):
You parented the best that you knew how to parent and you need to own that. Now, how many Bible studies and prayers and sermons and podcasts have you listened to and books have you read since your kids launched? Of course you’re going to look back with regret, but you’re not being fair to yourself. When you parented, you most likely did the best you knew how to do. You might not have even been a believer when your kids were in middle school.

So let’s not judge ourselves as foolish. You did the best you knew how to do. I think that’s a really important posture. Otherwise, we’re harsh and hard on ourselves, overly critical and the regret becomes resentment and becomes just a really difficult foundation for a relationship. So I think that’s the first thing I would say. And again, let’s remember that our kids are influenced by more than us.

(23:57):
Ideally, we have a positive relationship with our kids and they come to us, but now they can go to AI and they can Google any number of things. And there are many podcasts out there that are not biblical worldview podcasts and there are people that are following that you don’t even know about the platform they’re on. And there are coworkers and they might be on a work softball team and they’re playing with people who have nothing in common with them except they work at that company.

So don’t be thinking that you’re at fault here. This is why we pray with humility and we ask them the questions we ask and we pray about boundaries. And again, if you’re listening and you’ve got young kids, teach them why you have the boundaries you have. Why do you not allow that kid to come over to play anymore?

(24:34):
Why do you not allow your kids to go to that family home anymore because you’ve seen something that happens there. And you can do this without being gossipy and cruel about it, but teach your kids about the boundaries you have in hopes that they will want to have similar boundaries as they rise up.

Dr. Matt Jones (24:49):
Those are great. And I think as we think about this, you mentioned earlier launch and I think you said launch intentionally. What are some areas, some components where you feel like parents should, in order to prepare them to become adults, can really launch early? What are some key components there?

Dr. Kathy Koch (25:09):
Interesting question. Yeah. I think again, teaching why we have the boundaries we have and why we make the decision to make discernment. So I wrote a whole book about biblical character and discernment is in the baker’s dozen top 13 qualities.

We’ve got to teach our kids how to discern what’s good, better, and best. We’ve got to teach them to discern which people are for them, which people are against them. We’ve got to teach them to discern, who do we give another chance to versus who do we simply cross off our list? Because they have historically shown us that they’re irresponsible and mean spirited discernment again of truth versus lie. We haven’t taught our kids how to choose a church.

(25:45):
Parents choose churches. We got to teach them. You go to a college community, you go, you move across town or you move into your own apartment in your own city, but you don’t want to be going to church with your mom and dad, but you want to go to church. How do you choose a church? How do you figure out the doctrine? How do you use a website and how do you interview a pastor? And how do you figure that all out? We don’t teach that.

So I would be all in the discernment. I would model and talk out loud about the decisions we make. Finances would be huge. We look at the number of kids who are boomeranging back home because of debt, who don’t know how to manage money, who are impulsive, who have believed the lie from social media that they can be whatever they want and have whatever they want.

(26:22):
They think Amazon is free. I mean, I have talked to so many people who do not keep track of what they put on a debit card. They don’t balance checkbooks anymore and they have very little awareness of how much stuff costs. Before jumping on this podcast with you, I needed to have some blood work drawn and I had estimated that it would be $35 because that’s the last time I had blood work drawn.

Today it was $235 because I forgot that my doctor had also drawn blood for five other reasons. Don’t anybody worry. I’m healthy. We’re just checking up on something. And so I need to now come home and remember that $235 was withdrawn from my bank account, not 35. And I’m mature enough, I hope, and experienced enough to pay attention to that kind of thing. So finances, relationship, wisdom, and fit, who are you?

(27:09):
They don’t know who they are. Identity, and we talk about this a lot at Summit. One of my seminars for summit students would be about who are you? And you guys, if I don’t know who I am, I don’t know what to do. Human being comes before human doing. So if I don’t know who I am, I don’t know what to do. This is why they’re not launching well into post high school educational opportunities and even career.

And so you need to be telling your kids who they are. They should be learning who they are from God’s word where we’re called chosen, adopted, complete in Christ, dead to sin, alive to Christ Jesus, warriors, conquerors, and so much else, right? Created in his image, male or female. First two things we learn about ourselves. Parents should be having a clear, direct influence on who their children are.

(27:54):
So what do you say to them about who they are? Do you call out the truth? Do you correct and not criticize? These are whole more episodes, but I think the spoken word coming from the mom and dad is much more life giving than parents realize. Read the scripture. Your tongue is either death or life.

Janel Greig (28:12):
Yeah. Great advice. We have time for one more question. Is that okay, Dr. Kathy, if we do one more? Yes. Yes. All right. You close your book with an entire chapter on hope. Why was it so important for you to end there and what does real lasting hope look like for parents navigating those difficult relationships with their adult children?

Dr. Kathy Koch (28:34):
I appreciate this, Janel. I ended the whole book with hope because it is absolutely essential that we not hope in ourselves or our kids or our grandkids. We have to hope in God. He is worthy of our hope. He is who he says he is. He does what he says he will do. He does what he says he will do. Say that out loud again. He does what he says he will do.

And he protects and he guides and he loves and he creates boundaries and blessings and there’s faith and there’s hope. So we can’t put hope in ourselves. It’s not our job to figure it out. It’s not our ministry to solve problems. It’s our ministry to love unconditionally. And hopefully we’re able to solve problems as well, but it’s God. We can’t hope in our kids. I hope my kid will turn around.

(29:15):
I hope my kid goes to church. I understand those statements, but lasting true hope is hope in the God of the Bible who is worthy of it. So I believe God is who God says he is and I am trusting my children to him. As you know, at the very beginning of the book, I have a prayer, a declaration of release. It’s a prayer and a declaration of release where we actually say out loud, God, I trust them and name them. I trust Paul to your care. I trust Jake to your care. And there’s a couple of paragraphs of this declaration of release where I want them to be in a good relationship with Jesus Christ and I realize I might not be the one to get them there.

(29:55):
So it’s not about me. It’s not about my happiness. I don’t find security because I’ve been a good mom or dad. It has to be Jesus. So the scripture, praying the scripture, praying with optimism and conviction that God is capable of saying yes to the prayers that he chooses to say yes to. If he says no, that’s his decision. That’s what’s best for our kids and our grandkids in those moments. So a hope in God is essential.

I’ve already met two or three people who have told me they’ve reread that chapter because in the season of regret and the season of fear and disappointment, it’s easy to think that we can solve the problem. And if I pray the right prayer and if I read the right scripture and if I call it the right time, and man, I would love for that to be true, but it’s God. We got to trust you.

Janel Greig (30:40):
That’s fantastic. And that kind of points back to the idol, right? Our children, control is the idol. The idol, it’s have that long-term vision of parenting with, it’s for the Lord. Yeah.

Dr. Kathy Koch (30:50):
Amen. I start the book with idol and I end the book with hope. There was intentionality in that.

Janel Greig (30:56):
Well, Dr. Kathy, thank you so much for joining us today on the Upside Down Parenting Podcast. Listeners, if today’s conversation encouraged you, be sure to check out Dr. Kathy Koch’s new book, Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children. No matter what stage of parenting you’re currently at, Matt’s showing it there on the screen. Appreciate that. And this will give you a more practical, faith-filled guidance for next steps and your parenting.

And don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and share this podcast so that you never miss an episode and so more families can discover a better upside down way to parent. Dr. Kathy, thank you again for being with us.

Dr. Kathy Koch (31:37):
You’re welcome. Thanks for having me on. I enjoyed it.

Janel Greig (31:39):
Yeah, it was wonderful. And Matt, it’s always a pleasure.

Dr. Matt Jones (31:43):
Yes.