The Dr. Jeff Show Ep. 95 – Ryan Dobson

Episode 95: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

In this episode of the Dr. Jeff Show, host Dr. Jeff Myers interviews Ryan Dobson, son of renowned family psychologist Dr. James Dobson, who serves as the show’s studio manager and is a well-known speaker, author, and creator of the Rebel Parenting ministry. Ryan shares his personal transformation from being what he describes as a “terrible parent” who relied on authoritarian approaches to becoming someone who genuinely loves parenting through adopting principles of context and nuance, “withness,” and grace-based discipline.

Key takeaways include the power of apologizing to children when parents make mistakes, the importance of understanding the context behind children’s behavior rather than just addressing the behavior itself, and the revolutionary idea that parents can always “go first” in repairing relationships with their children, regardless of who was wrong. Ryan emphasizes that effective parenting today requires moving away from rigid, one-size-fits-all approaches toward more individualized, grace-filled methods that prioritize relationship over mere compliance.

Episode Transcript

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:02):
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Dr. Jeff Show podcast. This show’s available on Apple, Google, Spotify, Liftable, Edifi. Wherever you get your podcast, please go there to your favorite podcast provider and leave a review of the show that helps more people find out about it. And again, we want people to find out about it because this is the show where I interview major thought leaders to show how our worldview changes everything.

Today’s guest is Ryan Dobson. He has been on the other side of the camera, is the studio manager for this show for a long time. But Ryan is a well-known speaker and author, and he’s also got a program called Rebel Parenting, which we’re going to be talking about because how do you parent today and is it different than the way people used to parent? All of that’s on the table in today’s discussion. Thank you for joining the show. So I want to welcome on this side of the microphone, Ryan Dobson.

Ryan Dobson (00:58):
Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Jeff Myers (00:59):
We have been friends for decades, and you have been on the other side of the control board helping to get the Dr. Jeff Show podcast released. And now how many episodes do we have?

Ryan Dobson (01:13):
Oh my goodness.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:14):
We’re more than a year in.

Ryan Dobson (01:16):
Oh yeah. Are we close to a hundred?

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:18):
I think we’re close to a hundred episodes now.

Ryan Dobson (01:20):
It has been so much fun. You are one of the best listeners I have ever witnessed. I watch you on the podcast, actively engaging, listening with the guest, and I’ll see you go off script. I’ve got your questions, because you’re specifically listening to what they say, and you can see it in the guest response. They’re not used to it. You do such a great job.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:45):
Well, that’s a fun part of doing the show is I just get to learn and it’s part of my job.

Ryan Dobson (01:52):
You’re getting paid to learn from geniuses.

Dr. Jeff Myers (01:54):
I get paid to learn from all of these people and people I might, some people, of course, we have people on the show who are friends. We’ve been friends for a long time. But a lot of people who are on this program, we haven’t really known that much. So it’s kind of a handshake between Summit Ministries and a lot of people who are out there as influencers. But anyway, it’s fun to have you on the other side here, and we get to talk today. Now we’re both wearing jackets because we pretty much recorded a whole bunch of things ahead in the summertime.

Ryan Dobson (02:27):
Oh yeah. And it is not summertime anymore.

Dr. Jeff Myers (02:30):
And we let those play through, but now it is cold and it’s construction season at Summit Ministries. If you listen really carefully, you’re probably going to hear some saws and things in the background because we try to get a lot of that kind of stuff done in the winter so that next summer we can be well prepared for having, when kids are here, all of the students here.

Ryan Dobson (02:49):
Oh my goodness. Students back this summer. How great was that?

Dr. Jeff Myers (02:52):
Oh, it was fantastic. So the summer program grew by 70% over the previous year.

Ryan Dobson (02:59):
70% is huge, huge growth.

Dr. Jeff Myers (03:02):
And here we are, we’re in November right now when we’re recording this, and we’re already about 10% of the students’ seats filled up for next summer. So anybody, if you want to have a young person come to Summit, take a look at summit.org. Check that out now.

Ryan Dobson (03:24):
Definitely.

Dr. Jeff Myers (03:24):
Because I have a feeling this season’s going to fill up really quickly. People want to know the truth and they’re craving answers.

Ryan Dobson (03:32):
And anybody that doesn’t know my story, everything I do, everything I do in ministry started with my first trip to Summit in 1987. It impacted my life in such a great way, and now I get to call the parents. So I called over the last few weeks. I called a hundred parents from session five in Colorado.

Dr. Jeff Myers (03:53):
Wow. Yeah.

Ryan Dobson (03:54):
Just to say thank you. It impacted me so much and I’m so thrilled they send kids that gives us the opportunity to impact their child’s life too. What a thrill.

Dr. Jeff Myers (04:03):
Yeah. And it’s having that huge impact on a lot of other students that it had on you. We just did a big study with Gray Matter research. That company, and they’ve studied students one year, five years, ten years out from their Summit experience.

Ryan Dobson (04:20):
It’s amazing, isn’t it?

Dr. Jeff Myers (04:22):
I’ll tell you the most stunning part, and this is so humbling, the change, the experience at Summit accelerates.

Ryan Dobson (04:29):
Oh.

Dr. Jeff Myers (04:30):
The more they go. A hundred percent. It’s not like a typical camp experience where students come and like, oh, that was awesome. I love Jesus. And then a month later, difficulties hit. You go to college, you make a lot of mistakes. You don’t line up with your own expectations.

Ryan Dobson (04:48):
Dr. Jeff, Summit impacted every stage of life for me, legitimately every stage of life. It impacted me and it improved. It allowed me to see things that I would not have seen had I not attended Summit. It allowed me to see through lies, to be able to speak truth, to be able to stand on my own two feet when people disagreed with me, to be okay with disagreeing. It’s okay to disagree. I don’t dislike you. I just disagree with your opinion.

Dr. Jeff Myers (05:15):
You think about how rare that is these days, the kind of courage that people think that it would take to engage rather than to escape. But the truth is, if you do it with a biblical worldview and a loving spirit, it’s fun. You can have a good time. It’s not always easy.

Ryan Dobson (05:33):
No.

Dr. Jeff Myers (05:33):
Sometimes it’s painful. Sometimes your feelings get hurt and all of that, right? But it’s powerful to see the difference that one person can make.

Ryan Dobson (05:43):
Oh, it’s unbelievable. Dr. Noebel, I’ll never be able to truly thank him enough for setting me on that path. I mean, my dad is James Dobson, right? He’s got a big bright star. When you grow up around a star that bright, you just kind of figure there’s one in the family. It’s going to be him. No big deal. It’s okay. It’s not there. Not that they said that. Dr. Noebel was like, oh, no, no, no, Ryan, you are created for a purpose. God has a plan for you. I was shocked.

I mean, I left here like, oh, then I have a job to do. I’ve got a duty. It changed everything about college for me. Then college became a means to an end. It wasn’t just a place to go to and figure things out. It was, this is a tool that’s going to help me get further in life. I mean, who doesn’t want that for their kid too, right?

Dr. Jeff Myers (06:35):
Yeah. Oh, well, and now you’re a Summit dad. And here we are both wearing glasses. We’re getting a little older.

Ryan Dobson (06:42):
I talked to Lincoln today, so listen, I’m going to be 100% honest with the audience here. If you talk to my 16-year-old who went to Summit last year for the first time, if you say, did you enjoy your time at Summit? He’ll tell you no. But this morning he called his friend Sean in California to plan which session they’re going to come back to this year. And I am so thrilled. And you know what, Dr. Jeff, I’m going too.

Dr. Jeff Myers (07:10):
Did you like it? No, I can’t wait to go back.

Ryan Dobson (07:12):
That’s exactly right. Yeah, which is great, and that’s my son. You know what I mean? It’s perfect. And I will do for him what my parents did for me. If that kid’s parents don’t want to send him back another time, I would totally understand that. Right. It’s $2,000. He’s been, they flew him from California. That’s a big deal. I’ll definitely pay for that kid to go, because my parents did it for me. It transformed me.

And then I got home and they were like, oh no, your friends are a bunch of idiots. They’re just teenagers. Of course we were. What do we do? Well, Ryan really liked it. What if we just send some, my parents sent five of my friends back with me. Same summer, I went twice. And then those friends, one, I’m still friends with them today. Two, even if they took a different path, every one of them knew what my foundation was. They already knew what I believed because they all heard the same thing at Summit with me. It changed my friend group for the rest of my life. What a gift my parents gave me.

Dr. Jeff Myers (08:11):
That’s a huge gift. There are so many people who’ve said, I want to send kids to Summit. Help me pick out a young person. And I know some people when they hear that price tag, $2,000, now it’s two weeks, room, board, all of the activities, all of that, all of the speakers, all of that. But it’s still, it’s a big bite for a lot of people.

Ryan Dobson (08:32):
Sure. It was for us.

Dr. Jeff Myers (08:34):
Yeah. It’s a lot of money.

Ryan Dobson (08:36):
It is.

Dr. Jeff Myers (08:36):
But there are people who want to help. So I would say if you think, I’m not sure we can pull this off, maybe we could do this much. Well then, call Summit Ministries and talk to the people who are on the customer care team. That’s right. Because we’ll work with you to figure out how to get that young adult here. So anyway, thanks for being on the show today.

Ryan Dobson (08:58):
Oh, I love it.

Dr. Jeff Myers (08:59):
So we wanted to talk about Rebel Parenting, and I find this so fascinating because as you mentioned, your dad, founder of Focus on the Family, founder of Family Talk, the most well-known Christian psychologist and author of who knows how many bestselling books? 83. 83 books.

Ryan Dobson (09:24):
Can you imagine?

Dr. Jeff Myers (09:25):
No, because I’ve written 16 and I thought it was going to kill me. Whoa.

Ryan Dobson (09:29):
I’ve got 6. I don’t know if I can do another one. I’m actually trying to do one.

Dr. Jeff Myers (09:33):
But you’re an author. You’ve written books. You speak all over the country. You produce our podcast, you work with our Summit team, helping to connect with parents. Then you also have this ministry, Rebel Parenting, which is a new take on for a new generation of parents. Yep, it is. So there’s a continuity that you want to help families be strong, but then your approach to it and how you and Laura handle things on your podcast is different. Talk a little bit, I’m just curious, because you and I’ve talked about this personally, but we haven’t talked about it on camera. What was it like growing up as the son of Dr. James Dobson?

Ryan Dobson (10:27):
Total breeze, just sunshine and rainbows. No pressure. It’s all, yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (10:33):
I remember when you were at Summit way a long, long time ago and talking with you and realizing the pressure that that was because people would say, oh, Ryan Dobson. Oh, I know your dad. I can imagine it’d be difficult to sort of carve out a place for yourself.

Ryan Dobson (10:55):
Yeah. It’s hard to find your own voice, honestly. Yeah. It’s hard to talk about because I don’t want to be a pity party. You know what I mean? I don’t want to be like, oh, I was a victim and things. It’s not that. It’s just different. It’s very different. And until you learn to stand on your own two feet, until you learn to get your own voice, it’s really difficult to, because you don’t please people.

I look the way I look, those that are just listening to the podcast don’t see me. I got earrings, I got tattoos. I grew up in Southern California. That was my culture. And that was also part of when people say, oh, can you believe Miley Cyrus did what she did? Or Britney Spears or Michael Phelps? And I go, yeah, of course I can.

Dr. Jeff Myers (11:42):
Because when you grow up in the spotlight, it’s different.

Ryan Dobson (11:46):
It’s different. And there’s that need to separate. I’m not a small version of my dad, but my whole life, people think I’m going to be, so the most common response they get from people when they meet me is, oh, you’re not what I was expecting. And I go, yeah, but if you hear my whole story, it’s pretty common. And it makes a whole lot of sense.

(12:04):
And I didn’t plan to be a marriage and parenting broadcaster. Honestly, I don’t even know how it fell into my lap. I was so into worldview and teaching Christian worldview to youth. And then as I got older and older, it is my passion. It might be because I was a bad parent when I started. I mean, when Lincoln was born, oh, Dr. Jeff, I was a fear-based parent. It was harsh and a standard that was unreachable, and I could always make a situation better by telling you what you did wrong and how you could do it better my way.

Dr. Jeff Myers (12:38):
Were you trying to push him to be what you thought you weren’t? I mean, I don’t want to dig into the psychology of it all, but what?

Ryan Dobson (12:47):
I was afraid of being a bad Dobson.

Dr. Jeff Myers (12:50):
Oh, wow.

Ryan Dobson (12:51):
Yeah. So my dad talks to 330 million people every week, which means every 16 weeks he talks to the population of the earth. And if I’m a bad parent, they’re going to stop listening to my dad. And if they don’t listen to my dad, they might not hear about Jesus. And if they don’t hear about Jesus, they’re going to go to hell. And then the whole world goes to hell. And it’s all my fault because my dad’s the best parent in the world. He wrote all the books. He’s the best husband ever. He wrote all the books. And if I’m not living up to a standard that people imagine, well, then I’m a failure.

Dr. Jeff Myers (13:25):
Actually, I’m actually in tears a little bit hearing that because man, your honesty is, it just hits me right between the eyes. And so as a dad, you felt like this kid’s, he’s got to be the best parented kid there ever was.

Ryan Dobson (13:54):
Oh, it was awful. It really was. I mean, I was running my family away from me because I was so afraid and I was bad. That’s the truth, Jeff. I was a terrible parent. I’m not kidding. I was just a bad parent. And because it was fear-based, and when my son was eight, my daughter was three, and Lucy was strong spirited.

(14:23):
I won’t even quote the book because it doesn’t work with her. Now, honestly, my daughter, by the time she reached age three, Dr. Jeff, I remember looking at Laura in bewilderment and saying, I don’t know what to do. She’s stronger than I am. She is. She’s stronger than I am. She’s more determined than I am. She’s got a stronger will than I do. She’s willing to fight more than I’m willing to fight. I had no idea what to do.

And I knew if I try to spank this child, I can’t because I’ll have to abuse her. There’s no chance it will work the way they say it does not with this one. And I’m telling you, Dr. Jeff, I was so afraid because I knew I couldn’t parent the way I thought I was supposed to. I couldn’t do it the way the books had been written for me. It didn’t work. And I can remember it. The Holy Spirit woke me up in the middle of the night and I was worried about Lucy and Lincoln and the Holy Spirit said, what if it’s all you? And I was like, what? He goes, what if you’re just wrong?

(15:36):
And I was like, well, clearly something’s wrong. I mean, nothing’s working. What do I do? Then he said, just do the opposite of what you think, and this is embarrassing. I literally said, do you mean like the Seinfeld episode with George Costanza? And he said, yes. I mean, I said that to the Holy Spirit. It sounds so strange from that day forward when little girls cry, what do you do? Don’t cry. It’s okay. Don’t cry. Don’t cry. It’s okay. Don’t cry. And you squelch their emotions and you tell them it’s not okay to feel your emotions and to express them publicly.

My wife jumped all over my case. She is the greatest. One day she looked at me, she goes, stop saying that you cry all the time and nobody tells you to stop. And she was right. So typical white male, Christian, parenting conservative. When your child does something wrong, what do you do? Stand up a little taller. Get your voice a little bit deeper. Puff out that chest. Raise your voice a little bit. Assert the authority, right? Assert the authority. You know who listens to that? My puppies.

(16:39):
You know who didn’t listen to it? Lucy, I’m telling you, if I tried to escalate with Lucy, if I went up one step, she went up 15 steps. It didn’t work. And now Laura calls it going small. When Lucy’s upset, I drop straight down to my knees. I don’t even reach out like this. It seems too aggressive. I bend him and I talk real slow, real low, and I go, baby, what’s up? I’m so sorry. What can I do? She feels unheard. She doesn’t feel listened to. She feels misunderstood. Whatever it is that’s causing the outburst.

Do you know what the greatest thing about a strong-willed child is? If you won’t fight with them, they have nobody to fight with. I’m telling you, I stopped fighting with my daughter. She didn’t have anybody to fight with. It was so frustrating in the beginning because she was used to daddy fighting back. She was used to that push.

And so we had that relationship and I stopped doing it, and she didn’t know what to do. And it was rocky for a while. Dr. Jeff, we were watching a show last night and she reached over and she holds my hand. Now, if I had stayed the parent and husband I was when I was first married and I had first had kids, I don’t know if I’d have a wife and kids today.

Dr. Jeff Myers (18:07):
Wow, that’s incredible.

Ryan Dobson (18:09):
I was just mean.

Dr. Jeff Myers (18:09):
Yeah.

Ryan Dobson (18:10):
Laura didn’t have a voice. I was so afraid of doing it wrong. I was telling her what to do. And I tell you what, Jeff, I love being a parent so much. This is so crazy. I’ve had the opportunity to say that a few times in the last couple of months. Tell people you love being a parent. See what their face does, the craziest responses. People are stunned. They don’t believe you, and they’re just, you get this like, whoa, how’s that going for you? And I’m like, oh, parenting doesn’t bring you joy. Oh, it used to not bring me joy either. I was so ashamed of my parenting.

And now I’m telling you, I tell my kids all the time, I love being your parent. I love being your dad. It’s the greatest thing to be your dad. And I started telling him that before I believed it. When I knew I was a bad parent, I started telling him, I love being your dad. I love being your dad. I knew if I said it enough times, I’d start to believe it. And I do. I believe it. I get to be a good parent. I don’t have to. I don’t mind.

Dr. Jeff Myers (19:19):
Out of all of that, Ryan, you put together this podcast, Rebel Parenting. That’s a ministry. It is a ministry to sort of explain the joy of parenting that you experience to help parents parent well in these crazy times. What would you say? And again, this is a risk to ask this because I think when I looked at Dr. James Dobson’s books, what I sense is what you really want to look for in those books is a core of wisdom that you, not a checklist of things to do.

Ryan Dobson (19:58):
Right?

Dr. Jeff Myers (19:58):
Well, I did these 10 things that Dr. James Dobson said to do, and therefore, if my kids don’t turn out right, it’s on them. What you’re really looking for is the core of wisdom that is behind it. Because 9 out of 10 of the situations you’re going to face as a parent nobody’s ever faced before because it’s you and you’re different and your kids are different.

Ryan Dobson (20:21):
Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (20:21):
Okay. So tell us, what are some of the core sort of operating principles that you draw from when you’re trying to help people parent in times like this?

Ryan Dobson (20:32):
Yeah, I’ll give you good ones. Context and nuance.

Dr. Jeff Myers (20:35):
Okay.

Ryan Dobson (20:36):
It’s a huge one. Context and nuance is so, so big. Your child’s being disruptive for some reason, and it’s out of the ordinary. Why? That’s the question. Why? Now, I’ll tell you, if you look at old Christian parenting books, it’s always sin. The reason they’re being bad is 100% always sin, and you always punish bad behavior. I don’t know. I think there’s a difference there. There’s no context.

Dr. Jeff Myers (21:06):
You believe though, context. There’s a sin nature context.

Ryan Dobson (21:07):
Of course. Of course. Yes. I don’t think it starts at two when kids say no and mine, that’s a developmental stage. They’ve learned that and they want their own things. It’s not that. But there is a sin nature for sure.

Dr. Jeff Myers (21:19):
But you’re not saying, let’s just ignore the sin nature and then we can parent because these are little angels. What you’re talking about is, and that’s why context and nuance are two such important words in this. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that because I don’t know what people always hear when they hear us talk about different things.

Ryan Dobson (21:40):
Yes, sure. It’s a great point to make because could it be the sin nature? Absolutely. It might be, or it could be, they haven’t eaten in four hours. It might be right now. Is their outburst appropriate? No, but it’s also understandable. And if you’re a parent and your child hasn’t eaten for four hours and they have an outburst, I’m just going to go ahead and say, it might be your fault.

Dr. Jeff Myers (22:06):
Give him a little food. Help him settle down. Start again.

Ryan Dobson (22:08):
I’m telling you, food and water with kids. My son’s 16, we throw food in front of his face about every two hours. It’s true, about every two hours, Laura just brings up plates of food. And I take down empty trays of food or dishes because I don’t care. We feed that kid all day long and we bring a water bottle to his room. That’s changed so many things.

Sleep. Is your kid tired? When we were at a soccer game downtown here, and it was the night where they were going to let kids on after the game for the fireworks. It also happened to be a rainy night with thunder and lightning, and they kept postponing the game. They made an announcement at 8:40. They might start the game in 40 more minutes.

(22:54):
I’m there with Lucy. She was nine. Her bedtime was 7:30. It’s already 8:40. We got to go, dude. So we went, and she was very upset. And I got to tell you, Jeff, it made me mad. I had just come off a trip. I was tired, and I was like, this is not that big of a deal. We get texted to the soccer game all the time. We’ll come back on and we’re walking back to the car and Lincoln’s got a friend, and I’m kind of embarrassed being whiny. And again, the Holy Spirit goes, what situation would you respond this way in?

(23:28):
I was like, what? It’s like if you were in a situation similarly, can you think of something like that? And here’s what I thought. I love the Foo Fighters. I think Dave Grohl is an amazing musician. And if I was going to go to a Foo Fighters concert and they were going to invite me on stage to sing with Dave Grohl, I mean, can you imagine? Right? And we go to the concert and the band is late. And so we’re there for three or four hours and it’s postponed. And all of a sudden my friends are like, we got to go. And they make me leave. And I don’t get to sing with Dave Grohl. I would’ve been livid.

Of course, she’s upset. She’s nine years old. She doesn’t understand that we’re going to come back in just a week or two. And it changed me. And to Lucy, I was like, you know what, honey? Of course you’re upset. Of course. I’m so sorry. Do you want to go get treats at Chick-fil-A on the way home? And she goes, no. You know that little voice. Now, I’m not saying my parents would’ve done this. I may say a parent from the eighties might have then taken that and been like, oh, okay, well then we’re not getting treats.

(24:27):
We got off at Garden of the Gods, which is the street close to our house, and there’s a Chick-fil-A there. And I said, baby, you sure you don’t want treats? And she goes, okay. And we went and we all got treats, and then we got home. She was exhausted. She was so tired. She went to bed.

Dr. Jeff Myers (24:42):
You know what? I’m kind of hearing something. There is such a fast, frenetic pace to life and being able to just relax. That’s what I’m hearing. Sure. And I can see, because known one another for decades, that’s a huge shift for you. When you look up a DD binary in the dictionary, binary, you are, I mean, it’s your picture right there.

Ryan Dobson (25:14):
I am black and white. I am, yes or no. There is no gray that exists. And the Lord has given it to me. Listen, I’ll give you a couple examples on this one as far as context and nuance. The biggest one, my kids, it was like, oh, how long has it been now? Almost six years ago, they started acting weird, just fighting out of no reason, just bickering and yelling. It was so crazy. And I’m looking at him, I’m like, whatcha doing? This went on for weeks. I couldn’t get them to stop it. I’m trying to authority it. I’m trying to separate. Nothing is working.

I’m at my therapist’s office one day and I was like, oh my gosh, Sam, I should quit my job. I’m giving people advice. My kids are terrors. What’s going on? I can’t figure this out. And he goes, oh, man, that’s awful. How’s Laura’s cancer? And I was like, what? And he goes, how’s Laura’s cancer going? And I was like, oh my goodness. It’s awful. She had been in chemo for 12 months straight. It was the worst, and it was getting worse. And he goes, how are you handling it? And I go, oh, horribly. And he goes, what are you doing? And I go, oh. I go in my garage and cry by myself. And he’s like, oh, how do you think your kids are handling it?

Dr. Jeff Myers (26:35):
Wow.

Ryan Dobson (26:38):
Can you imagine what would happen if I punished them? Here’s the truth. They should not have been fighting with each other. They shouldn’t have been saying those things. They shouldn’t have been hitting and pulling. And those are inappropriate behaviors, but…

Dr. Jeff Myers (26:51):
You can understand.

Ryan Dobson (26:52):
Yeah. They were so sad. The big C, they think their mom might die. They’ve heard of cancer. I mean, I was a wreck. Of course, my kids are a wreck. All they needed was hugs and understanding and tears, and to be able to grieve with their dad, I started crying with them. It was awful. But we got through it. We got through it together. Lincoln lied about his homework. When he went to school for the first time, we homeschooled him up to the fifth grade. He went to a hybrid school, and Laura and I couldn’t figure out his homework program. Oh my goodness.

Dr. Jeff, we took a class. We had a tutor. Laura and I, trying to figure out his homework thing, and it just wasn’t working. We finally had two tutors, a person from the school. We got it done. Oh my goodness. On the way to school, I was like, can you believe you’re finally going to have homework to turn in today? And he wasn’t as excited as I thought he would. I was like, oh, that’s strange. I get home that night. And Laura goes, oh yeah, Lincoln had a tough time at school today. And I go, what happened? He goes, oh, he didn’t turn one of his assignments in. He said, Coco, which was our brand new miniature dachshund.

(27:59):
Coco pooped on his homework. And I started laughing so hard. I’m like, she didn’t eat it. The dog didn’t eat his homework. I was laughing so hard. I’m like, you didn’t believe him, did you? And she goes, well, he said the same thing to me that he did to his teacher. And I was like, oh, okay. So I go in his room, I go, hey, dude, I heard Coco pooped on your homework. And he goes, well, it wasn’t right on it, but it was really near it, and I didn’t want to touch it. And I go, really? And he goes, no. He got to school. He hadn’t turned in a homework assignment on time in the first two and a half months of school.

And I promised him that all of his assignments were done that day, and I was wrong. We had missed one. And he was so sick of being singled out in class and having to stay in at recess and lunch and finish assignments that his mom and dad couldn’t figure out that he said Coco pooped on it. Now, when I was little, a lie is a lie is a lie. And where do the liars go? They go to the lake of hell, fire, and you punish a lie, but what am I going to do? This was my fault. So I go, hey, buddy, I would’ve done the same thing. And he goes, what? I’m like, I probably would’ve lied too if I was you.

Dr. Jeff Myers (29:17):
To protect your parents.

Ryan Dobson (29:20):
To protect him, to protect. Who knows? I said, so we got to go tell your teacher what happened? And he goes, what? I go, I’m going to go with you. And he goes, oh, okay. I go, yeah. So we went down, we talked to the teacher, and then I did another parent thing. I was like, hey, listen, Lincoln is a fifth grader. If he doesn’t turn a homework assignment in, it’s not his fault. He’s not maliciously not turning assignments in. His parents aren’t smart enough to get the assignments done, so he’s not allowed to stay in at lunch and recess ever again.

And she wasn’t happy with me. And she’s like, well, that’s our incentivizer for that. I go, but it’s not incentivizing me. He’s not the one doing it. So no, he can’t stay. And she’s like, well, I’m going to have to call because this is what we do.

(30:06):
And I go, you call me anytime you want. She called the rest of the year. I never let him stay in one time. He’s a fifth grader, run, play. I went down with him. That’s what a dad does. You go with your son. I didn’t make him do it himself. I stood with him when he had to say that, and then I defended him. Hey, it’s not his fault. He’s being punished for something that’s my fault. Let that kid go play at lunch. And I said, by the way, if his homework’s late, what’s going to happen? She goes, well, it’s great. It’s going to go down. And I go, oh, I don’t care about that. He’s in the fifth grade.

Dr. Jeff Myers (30:35):
How do you balance? I have four kids. They’re grownups now. They’ve all done really well, and whatever they set out to do, we had our hard moments and no question about it.

Ryan Dobson (30:48):
Everybody does.

Dr. Jeff Myers (30:50):
But I always wrestled with that. How much do, because I understand what’s going on with this kid. How much do I protect them from accountability? Because this is a fine balance. I can imagine some parents listening to this scene saying, oh yeah, that’s the helicopter parent right there. That’s the helicopter parent.

Ryan Dobson (31:13):
And here’s why it’s not. It was my fault. It was my fault, Dr. Jeff. I didn’t figure out his homework. It wasn’t his fault I got to take the hit for that one. Did he lie? Yes. So we’re both going to go, because I pushed him into that situation. But I also explained to him that we had a long conversation about truth.

(31:33):
This is how it came back up. I said, listen, the only thing you’ve got is your reputation, Lincoln, and you have to be someone that’s known for telling the truth. It was about four months later, I picked him up at school and his teacher came over and she was like, oh my goodness. Lincoln is hilarious. He gave an oral report today. We were dying. Everyone was dying. I go, really? She goes, yeah. And he kind of told a fib again.

And I go, really? What did he say? And she said, well, he said, you guys went and bought chickens and you were driving him home, and when you got home, one of them died. And so you cut the head off with an axe, then you cooked it that night. And I go, oh, we did that. And her eyes got super big. And she goes, what?

(32:18):
I go, yeah. And she goes, did you skin an antelope and make him hold the heart? And I go, yep, did that too. And she goes, oh my goodness. And she starts waving her arms and she calls the teacher aid over and she goes, all that stuff Lincoln said, it’s all true. And Lincoln couldn’t figure out what was going on. So we got in the car and he goes, why were they saying that, daddy? And I go, remember when you said Coco pooped on your homework? And he goes, yeah. I go, they thought you lied. And he goes, oh. I’m like, that’s why it’s important to tell the truth. See, that’s the thing.

Dr. Jeff Myers (32:50):
Yeah. But this is walking. This is not hovering.

Ryan Dobson (32:52):
No.

Dr. Jeff Myers (32:53):
Walking with my child. Walking, walking with. Okay.

Ryan Dobson (32:57):
Can I tell you the principle?

Dr. Jeff Myers (32:59):
Yes.

Ryan Dobson (32:59):
Here’s the principle behind that religion says, oh, I screwed up. My dad is going to kill me. A relationship with Jesus said, oh my goodness, I screwed up. I got to go tell my dad. That’s the relationship I want with him for the rest of his life, because he’s going to fail. Listen, Dr. Jeff, you know this. I blew it.

We traveled last year to a trip and we recorded for a whole week, and I lost an entire day of recording. And when I got home, I went into a panic. I did not know what I was going to do. I lost a full day of recording. That’s a fireable offense. I’ve worked in studios for a long time and I was worried. I love my job. I love Summit. I don’t like to fail. There was a million things I was beating myself up. And I had to tell you, I had to tell you, we don’t have those shows. And I’m telling you, I was getting ready to drive over here. Laura drove me. I was so scared. And before I left, the Holy Spirit goes, hey, tell your kids. And I was like, what?

(34:02):
No, no. And he goes, you tell your kids right now. And I was like, oh my goodness. And I told my kids how bad I blew it. And I told Lucy, Lucy, if there was a lie I could tell to get out of this, I would want to tell it, but I can’t. I have to go be an adult and I have to go tell Dr. Jeff. And the truth is I might lose my job. And they were like, what? It may not have been age appropriate for Lucy, Lincoln. He was a little better. I probably might have overdone it, but I told him.

(34:32):
And I came over and my goodness, you’re the most gracious boss in the world. You could not have been kinder to me in that moment. I got to go home and tell them, because I want them to know I’m 52 and I blew it at 52. You’re going to blow it at 52, you’re going to blow it at 60. And if I’m still alive, you can always come to me. And if I’m not, Jesus is never going to shame you for what you do. He died for you already. He can’t love you anymore or less. That’s it. And I want to be there with you for the rest of your life. Whatever. I can’t take away your problems, but can I sit with you with your problems? Yes. Can I grieve with you? Of course.

Dr. Jeff Myers (35:17):
Yeah.

Ryan Dobson (35:18):
That’s what I want.

Dr. Jeff Myers (35:20):
When you read the gospels, you see this principle of with-ness, we use the word witness, but it actually means with-ness that you’re with, you’re walking alongside, which is what Jesus did with his disciples. Was there a correction? Yes. Did he call them out when they were being self-centered?

Ryan Dobson (35:41):
Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (35:41):
Yes. Right. Did he call them out when they were being power hungry? Yes, he did. Did he continue to walk alongside of them in spite of their failures? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Ryan Dobson (35:53):
You can learn so much from Jesus in parenting. If that’s our true model, well then it’s not a second chance or a third chance. God gives me 2000 chances or a million chances. And with my kids, this is the other one, we get to go again.

(36:08):
You get to when there’s a breakdown in the relationship, the parent always can reach out to a child. You can always say, I am grieving. I’m not with you. I feel this. What can I do? We can always do that. You can always go first, even if they’re wrong, you can go first because you’re a parent. You can be the bigger person. You can always do that. Oh, I love being a parent. Yeah.

Dr. Jeff Myers (36:31):
Wow. Wow. This is so good. I pick up these principles, which we tend to use in a lot of other relationships. People would understand context and nuance better at work maybe than with their kids. Sure. They understand this principle of with-ness maybe better with their friends than with their kids.

(36:55):
But those principles that are true from scripture apply in that situation. Talk to the parents for a minute who are watching, listening right now who’ve, whose relationship with their kids is strained, maybe adult kids, maybe teenage kids, and it’s just broken down and they’re wondering, is there any hope that this will ever be restored?

Ryan Dobson (37:26):
I always believe in hope of a restored relationship. And honestly, Dr. Jeff, I do marriage and parenting conferences all the time, and over the last year I’ve had the opportunity to say this out loud to audiences and I go, how many of you are just desperate for your parent to go, you know what? I’m so sorry when you were young and I did blah, blah, blah. I can’t imagine how much you were wounded. Is there any way you could forgive me? When I say that, people involuntarily nod their heads.

(38:04):
If you blew it, it’s okay. People think apologizing takes away your power. It gives you power, it gives you intimacy, it gives you togetherness. It shows that people are failures and we make mistakes and we need forgiveness. Listen, I was a terrible, terrible parent when Lincoln was young. I was awful. Do you know what I did? I went to therapy with that guy for three years and he told me for three years what a horrible, awful parent that I was and how I made him feel small and he cried. Oh, it was one of the most painful experiences I’ve ever been through to hear week after week what a failure I had been.

But Dr. Jeff, I have a good relationship with him. At 16, he was playing Apex legends with his friends last night, and I go Love you. And he goes, love you more. His voice is deeper than mine. He’s six foot one. He weighs more than me. He’s a big man. He’s going to be a huge guy. And he says, I love you. When I was leaving today, I go, hey, you want to watch a movie tonight? And he goes, yeah, if I had stayed the parent I was when he was little.

Dr. Jeff Myers (39:15):
You wouldn’t have that?

Ryan Dobson (39:16):
No. All I had to do was be wrong. All I had to do was be wrong and apologize. And then by the way, he gets triggered. It’s so crazy. He would get triggered because Lucy would do something that when he was young, I would’ve for sure punished him, and then I didn’t punish her and it would make him so mad. He would try to parent her and punish her and he would yell at me and I’d look back and go, oh, honey, I’m so sorry. I was such a bad dad when you were little. Is there any way you could forgive me again? You say that enough times and it’ll work. Yeah. You just got to keep eating it.

Dr. Jeff Myers (39:55):
It doesn’t take the power away. No, it restores. It restores the relationship. Yeah. Well, man, I am so grateful for your telling the story. And Rebel Parenting, so people are going to look that up.

Ryan Dobson (40:07):
Yep, rebelparenting.org. YouTube, podcast, all over.

Dr. Jeff Myers (40:11):
And when you’re going to watch it or listen to it, you’re going to say, I don’t know about that, or yes, about this or whatever, but that’s all part of what’s cool is that it’s starting the conversation.

Ryan Dobson (40:25):
That’s right.

Dr. Jeff Myers (40:26):
You don’t have to agree. Hopefully we’re all growing in wisdom. That’s right. As we get older. Yep.

Ryan Dobson (40:32):
Thanks, Dr. Jeff.

Dr. Jeff Myers (40:33):
Yeah. Fun to have you on the show.

Ryan Dobson (40:34):
I appreciate it.

Dr. Jeff Myers (40:35):
Thank you to Ryan Dobson for joining me on the Dr. Jeff Show podcast. Today you can find out more about Ryan’s work Rebel Parenting by going to rebelparenting.org, and while you’re there, you can look at some of the things that he focuses on, the problems that parents face today that are unique and how he addresses them. I think you’re going to enjoy that.

Psalm 127 reminds us that children are a gift from the Lord. If anything else, hopefully those who are parents will feel more confident. Those who would like to be parents someday maybe will anticipate that more. This is a really important time in our nation’s history for us to effectively pass the baton from one generation to the next. Thank you for joining the show today.

Listeners, I want you to know that our podcast is on Edifi, which is a truly powerful app that brings together thousands of the best Christian podcasts, one place for your listening enjoyment. You can download it at edifi.app. Be sure to share the show if you have enjoyed listening to it and leave a review if you would, on the site where you download the show that helps more people know about the Dr. Jeff Show, and I’ll look forward to seeing you next week.