Raising Kids Who Can Discern the Truth in a Confusing World w/ Kathy Gibbens | Ep. 53, Pt. 2

Episode 53: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

In part two of the interview, Kathy Gibbens encourages parents to learn critical thinking alongside their children in simple, fun ways to help kids discern truth from lies and develop resilient faith in a world shaped by AI and constant ideas. She emphasizes that critical thinking is easier than parents fear and that the deeper goal is not only to teach what is true but to teach children to love the truth, using it with love rather than as a weapon so that it shapes how they treat others and live out their Christian faith.

Episode Transcript

Janel Greig (00:00):
Well, welcome back to the Upside Down Parenting Podcast, where we explore raising kids to thrive in God’s upside down kingdom. Today, we’re excited to welcome Kathy Gibbens back for part two. Kathy is from Filter It Through a Brain Cell, and she’s passionate about equipping parents to raise kids who can engage ideas thoughtfully, discern truth from lies, and develop a faith that actually holds up under pressure. And we were excited to dive in in our first episode, so if you miss that, go back and listen to it.

But we’re going to pick up today, Kathy, maybe on some practical experience for parents, practical tips, because many parents don’t feel like they have time to start teaching critical thinking skills or the expertise to teach critical thinking skills. What would you say is the simplest place to start?

Kathy Gibbens (00:50):
Yeah. At risk of sounding like I’m promoting myself, that is exactly why I created a podcast is because I didn’t learn this stuff either. I was learning right alongside my daughter when she was in the seventh grade. And I had a good education. I went to a private Christian school, so it’s not like I didn’t know anything, but it’s not being taught in school today. And so I think one of the reasons that a lot of parents are nervous about it is just because we didn’t learn it either.

And so it sounds weird. The names are weird. What’s an ad hominem? Some of the names are weird and we just don’t know what it is. Here’s my encouragement to parents. Just learn it alongside your kids. Make it fun. Don’t make it be a big deal. Learn alongside your kids. I invite you to listen to my podcast.

(01:33):
Most of the episodes are very, very short. 10 minutes are under. They’re designed to get in the car with all your kids and hit play. And on your way to soccer practice, y’all can listen, you can learn together and have a little conversation about it and move on with your day. So it doesn’t need to be. Don’t make it a big deal. Don’t make it a big mountain or something that’s really difficult to learn.

Just make it something fun. Add one fun thing into your day or listen when you’re driving on vacation over the summertime. There’s a lot of different ways to do it, but I wanted it to be very accessible, very easy, free, and a simple way to do it.

Janel Greig (02:05):
Yeah. And I can speak to the practical application of your content, Kathy. I was similar to you in that we discovered The Fallacy Detective books, and I think there were a few one-off fallacy books that during COVID I learned right alongside my kids. I thought, “This is fantastic. Why was I not taught this growing up and equipped with this?”

And then when you launched your ministry, it’s been such a blessing. And listeners, it is. We listen to it on Fridays on the way to school and they’re short, sweet, allows time for a conversation after. And then it’s the kids, a challenge for the weekend. Identify this fallacy over the weekend when we’re driving or when we’re watching something. So it is great content.

Kathy Gibbens (02:42):
Yay. Perfect. That’s exactly how I wanted it to be used. So yes, I love that.

Dr. Matt Jones (02:45):
And Kathy, she’s been bragging about it since she joined Summit on the podcast, so it’s been great. All right, so we do this thing called a speed round where really the one rule. Is it the one rule, Janel? The one rule is, you’ve got to give a short answer. All right? Okay. So here we go. And this gives us an opportunity to get to know you a little bit more. So coffee or tea? It’s okay to say neither.

Kathy Gibbens (03:17):
Really neither.

Dr. Matt Jones (03:18):
Yeah, you’re with me.

Kathy Gibbens (03:19):
Yeah. I drink water. I’m kind of boring. I’m kind of boring. Yeah. That’s great.

Dr. Matt Jones (03:25):
Oh, I even got my Summit mug today, Janel.

Janel Greig (03:27):
Oh, well done. Well done.

Dr. Matt Jones (03:29):
We should get Kathy one.

Janel Greig (03:32):
Well, yes, we should. We should. All right. Early bird or night owl, Kathy?

Kathy Gibbens (03:36):
Early bird. Even back in college, I was one of those people. In college. Isn’t this crazy? I was in bed by 10 o’clock and up at 6. That is not the normal college experience I know, but that was me. Yep.

Dr. Matt Jones (03:46):
Same here. Favorite book you recommend to parents?

Kathy Gibbens (03:50):
Oh, it depends on what age. What age parent are we talking about?

Dr. Matt Jones (03:52):
Let’s do early childhood because sometimes we need to fill in some gaps there. So early childhood. Yeah. I know you like junior highs. I learned that from the last episode.

Kathy Gibbens (04:07):
Hang on. Hang on. You’re going to have to give me. This is why I script out my own podcast. I’m going to have to. Let me think about this one for a minute. Okay. I’ve got to look it up because now. Hang on, hang on.

Janel Greig (04:24):
You’re good.

Dr. Matt Jones (04:27):
This is where we can edit.

Kathy Gibbens (04:29):
Yeah, I know. I’m using my edit tip jar right now.

Dr. Matt Jones (04:32):
There we go. There we go.

Kathy Gibbens (04:35):
I’m looking it up because I want to give the title. Okay. Okay. All right. As it relates specifically to critical thinking for early childhood, there is an adorable book series. I just found it on Amazon. It’s called The Cognitive Tales.

And they have a couple different volumes, and they are adorably illustrated little stories about animals that illustrate the cognitive biases that we have. So I love that. If you want something cute and fun to be able to introduce your kids to maybe some critical thinking, that is a really great place to start.

Dr. Matt Jones (05:19):
Okay. And I got to note, because it’s about animals, is it spelled tales? T-A-L-E-S or T-A-I-L-S?

Kathy Gibbens (05:27):
T-A-L-E-S.

Dr. Matt Jones (05:29):
Okay, good deal.

Kathy Gibbens (05:29):
As in stories. Yes. The cognitive stories.

Dr. Matt Jones (05:32):
I just have to know these things.

Janel Greig (05:35):
What’s your favorite book, Kathy, just for hobby reading?

Kathy Gibbens (05:40):
It depends on the mood that I’m in for. I really love historical fiction. That’s one of my favorite genres to listen to or to read or to listen to. However, I also love some C.S. Lewis. So I would have to say one of my all-time favorites is probably going to be Mere Christianity. It’s one of his books that I love, and it’s kind of interesting because it goes along with what I’m now teaching.

I remember this is a book I read in college and he was like, “This is amazing.” I love how he lays out. Oh, it was actually a series of radio broadcasts that he gave, and he lays out an argument for Christianity, and it’s just beautifully written. So love me some Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis.

Dr. Matt Jones (06:25):
That’s great. Favorite family activity?

Kathy Gibbens (06:35):
Yeah. See, I’m not very speedy. I’m on the spot. This is where I’m using all of my edits, all of my edits. I love traveling. I love going and seeing new places. I’m not somebody who, I like to go back to the same place every single summer over and over again. No, let’s go someplace new. Let’s see something new.

Dr. Matt Jones (06:53):
Okay, that’s great.

Janel Greig (06:54):
All right. What’s your most used emoji?

Kathy Gibbens (06:59):
It’s just going to be the boring little smiley face. Again, I’m a little bit on the boring side.

Janel Greig (07:05):
I love it.

Kathy Gibbens (07:05):
Not even the big grin, just a smiley face.

Dr. Matt Jones (07:09):
And then if you could have a superpower, what would it be?

Kathy Gibbens (07:19):
This one has changed over time. At one point, it would be the ability to breathe underwater because how cool would that be? And then at other times it has been the ability to be invisible. So yeah, why has it gone back and forth between those two? I don’t know. Isn’t that weird? It’s kind of weird.

Dr. Matt Jones (07:37):
Okay.

Janel Greig (07:37):
I like it.

Dr. Matt Jones (07:38):
Well, I was expecting super speed, but apparently not.

Janel Greig (07:42):
Or mind reading?

Dr. Matt Jones (07:43):
Or mind reading.

Kathy Gibbens (07:44):
Oh, no, no, no. I don’t want that. I feel like people say way too much online. You should have kept that inside thoughts. Yeah.

Janel Greig (07:53):
Oh, that’s great. Well, back to questions, Kathy, not that those weren’t great questions, but maybe more questions content-wise. I have a question on AI and how that has played in, you talked about COVID and at the onset of your investigation and developing the ministry that the Lord has provided for you.

But how have you even in that short amount of time seen AI impact critical thinking skills for maybe all generations it’s been impactful for? And then how as parents can we help navigate that additional challenge for critical thinking?

Kathy Gibbens (08:28):
Yeah. I just did a little miniseries on AI and how it affects us because yes, it’s new. I’ve only been aware of it in the last couple of years. And wow, has it had an impact already on what we’re doing? So not only AI, but also the advent of these AI chat things that people are using.

And I think it’s one of those things that we have to understand its proper place. We have to understand that it is a tool and it can have a proper place, maybe in our life and certainly in different sectors of society that it is positive and is going to be helpful. But if it is used improperly, it can really hurt us and it can really hurt other people.

And we have to understand the difference. We have to understand what it is. We have to understand that it can be wrong sometimes. It is not always right. We have to understand that these chat models, they are designed, they are created to be validating even when you are wrong. If you come to it telling it something confidently, it will continue to validate whatever you said it, even if what you came to it with was wrong.

(09:45):
And it can lead people down some very dark paths to some very wrong conclusions. I have also been seeing studies about the effect of using AI as a replacement for your thinking and what it does to our physical brain. It is hurting our physical brain to the point that our brain can exhibit the same signs that they see in dementia.

And if kids are relying on AI to do their thinking for them, they are giving themselves literal brain damage from what the studies that I am seeing. And again, this is all new. I’m no expert on this, but these are things that I’m seeing that are like, these should be red flags to us as parents. Do not let your kids outsource your thinking.

For us, for me, do not let AI outsource my thinking because not only is it hurting my own ability to think, but it is hurting my brain because our brain, it grows by use. And if we’re not forcing our brain to work, we’re going to lose it. You lose the ability to think and to think well.

(10:53):
So it’s one of those things. Here’s the reality. As parents, we’re raising kids. The world will never go back. We’re not going back to a pre-AI world again. So it’s here, it’s here to stay. So we have to be very aware of it. We have to learn how to use it well and wisely, what it’s good for, what it’s not good for. And we cannot afford to be ignorant on this topic.

Dr. Matt Jones (11:17):
Yeah. Good.

Janel Greig (11:19):
Thank you for that.

Dr. Matt Jones (11:20):
So some parents, Kathy, get nervous when their kids start asking hard questions about faith because there are some really difficult questions about the Christian system of thought. And again, Summit’s not afraid of questions, but there are some tough ones out there.

So how do you, we create homes where questions are welcomed without feeling like we’re undermining belief or even feeling inadequate. And maybe it’s okay to feel inadequate.

Kathy Gibbens (11:53):
Yeah. No, I think it’s great. And I love how Summit does that. My daughter’s been two years. She went two years in a row and just loved her time. That’s great. And I’m so grateful for what you guys do. I think what we need to do is we need to look at, how do we think about questions that we have or things that we’re being presented with? Because again, there’s no shortage of ideas that we’re being presented with.

And here’s something that I saw that I heard, and let me give you the answer to this. Somebody told me one time that it’s not a real conversation. Say you’re going into a conversation with somebody that you disagree with about something that you hold very dear to you, your faith or whatever. He said, “It’s not a real conversation if you don’t enter the conversation willing to be convinced.” And I was like, “Whoa, what do you mean?”

(12:41):
Because there’s certain things that I hold to be true that I’m not willing to be convinced about. And he was like, “Well, hold on. Hold on.” And he challenged me on this and he said, “Here’s the thing. If what you believe is right, you should never be afraid to look at it because if what you believe is right and true, you’ll always end back up at the same conclusion.”

(13:04):
“And if what you believe is not right, don’t you want to know? So we shouldn’t be afraid.” So I’m going to do a little imagery that you guys can see, but you can’t see on the podcast. So those of you who are listening, you’re just going to have to kind of hear me. If you hold your two fingers where the fingertips are pointing at each other. So here’s your ideas. Here is the idea that somebody is bringing to you and you’re having a conversation and you’re pushing back and forth. Back and forth.

Okay, what do you do with that? You have a belief, they have a belief. You keep in mind what the goal is. If the goal is the truth, it does not matter what somebody brings to you if the goal is to buckle toward the truth. And so we don’t have to be afraid of an idea, of our kid being exposed to this idea, to that idea.

(13:51):
Even if it’s something that we’re like, wow, I do not know how to answer that. That feels scary to me because if they go down this path, where could they wind up? No, you want them to bring it to you. You want to wrestle with it with them and say, I don’t know, but let’s look into it and let’s find out what the truth is. And if the goal is to buckle toward truth, it doesn’t matter what you put in. It doesn’t matter what the topic is. Put a topic in and let’s wrestle with it and let’s find truth and let’s find truth together.

And guess what? It might take some time. It might take us some digging. It might take some work to find truth, but if that can be the goal, then it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter what crazy thing they’re hearing or they’re wrestling with, you got it. You now have a path forward that you can tackle it with them.

Dr. Matt Jones (14:36):
Yeah. I love what Proverbs 18:2 says. It says, “A fool takes no pleasure and understanding, but only in expressing their opinions.” And I think sometimes we as Christians aren’t willing to listen to build a foundation for a further conversation to where when we got this battle going on, maybe they would be a little bit.

And I’m not saying Christians are fools, but I’m saying maybe we need to go in with a little bit more humility in terms of if we’re convinced that it’s true, that doesn’t mean we can’t have conversation and we cannot be sitting back and listening. So that’s really great insight on that. Thank you so much.

Janel Greig (15:10):
Yeah. Yeah. The importance of dialogue, which is kind of shut down, unfortunately, oftentimes in our world today. Kathy, maybe for a last question, what’s one upside down kingdom mind shift that you would love to see parents embrace when it comes to raising thoughtful, discerning kids?

Kathy Gibbens (15:31):
Yeah. I would say the biggest thing, and this is going to be really just in light of critical thinking. So since that’s just what I do on my podcast, is that it’s a lot easier than you think it is. And it is incredibly important for all areas of life. The loving, teaching kids, we’re not here just to teach our kids what the truth is. Yes, we should do that and that matters. But are we teaching them to love the truth? That is a different thing.

It’s one thing to know the truth. It’s another thing to love the truth because when you love the truth, now you act differently. You act differently toward people around you. You interact with people differently. You behave differently when the point is to love the truth. And what you do with the truth that you know is different. It’s the whole thing that I could cook you.

(16:25):
Well, maybe not me because I don’t really love cooking a whole lot, but theoretically, I could cook you the most beautiful, delicious, aromatic steak and present it to you in such a way that you’re like, “I cannot wait to eat this steak. This looks amazing.” Or I could take a raw steak and smack you in the face with it. Either one, I’m giving you steak.

I’m giving you the truth, but am I doing it with love? Do I love this and want you to love it as well? Or am I just going to use the truth like a weapon? And I think we have that choice and loving truth has application for all areas of our life.

Dr. Matt Jones (17:08):
And it’s interesting what Jesus says in the Gospel of John, it’s truth that sets you free. And I think that’s one of the things that has helped me say, man, I need to fall in love with whichever. Obviously there is the truth, but whatever truths fall under that overarching Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. And man, it is so freeing.

So thank you so much, Kathy, for spending time with us today by using the gifts and talents that God’s given you to do this podcast and Filter It Through a Brain Cell. We appreciate the practical tools and the vision to help our kids develop some critical thinking skills by building habits and fostering intentional conversations in our homes. Those are so important.

So please look at Kathy’s website, Filter It Through a Brain Cell, a brain cell, yeah, and her podcast. If you found this episode helpful, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with other parents who want to raise kids, who think deeply and live faithfully in this upside down kingdom.

(18:13):
Until next time, keep leaning into the upside down way of parenting where we equip, not just instruct and trust God to guide our kids into the truth. Janel, great job today. Kathy, thank you for joining us, and blessings everybody.

Kathy Gibbens (18:29):
Thanks for having me.