In this conversation, Dr. Jeff and Dr. Kathy equip and encourage parents to navigate today’s gender confusion with both clarity and compassion—always grounded in biblical truth.
And here’s some fantastic news: you can actually get a free copy of their book by visiting this link. Be sure to check it out! With that said, let’s jump into the discussion.
Episode 19: Summary & Transcript
Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Episode Summary
This episode features a previously recorded livestream interview, hosted by Summit Ministries, featuring Dr. Jeff Myers and Dr. Kathy Koch discussing their book, Raising Gender Confident Kids. They address the rapid rise of gender confusion among youth, attributing it to cultural and ideological shifts rather than biological realities. The speakers outline four key postures for parents—compassion, hope, truth, and confidence—to navigate this issue. They critique cultural lies like the “gender spectrum,” offer practical advice on having conversations with children, and emphasize the importance of a biblical worldview in establishing a child’s identity. The second half of the event was dedicated to answering audience questions on topics ranging from media’s influence to handling disagreements within the family.
Episode Transcript
Janel Greig (00:00:00):
Hey friends, Janel Greig here. I hope you’re all getting excited for the holiday season. Fast approaching. I love Fall, and the colors here in the Pacific Northwest with the leaves changing, but as the leaves drop from the trees, I know that that means Christmas is right around the corner and in our household, November 1st is the day that I get to start listening to Christmas music. So that’s the current vibe in our family’s home. And on an upcoming episode, Matt and I will be sharing some thoughts on creating holiday memories. So make sure you follow the podcast so you don’t miss when these new episodes drop.
Today I’m thrilled to share a special episode of the Upside Down Parenting Podcast with you. Several times a year, we host live streams at Summit specifically for parents. And a few months ago, Dr. Jeff Myers and Dr. Kathy Koch joined us for one of those events to discuss their new book, Raising Gender Confident Kids: Helping Kids Embrace Their God-Given Design.
In this conversation, Dr. Jeff and Dr. Kathy equip and encourage parents to navigate today’s gender confusion, both with clarity and compassion, always grounded in biblical truth. This is a timely biblically rooted guide to equip parents with tools, practical conversation starters, and gospel centered strategies to nurture a child’s core needs, fostering lasting confidence in God’s intentional design for male and female. And here’s some fantastic news. You can actually get a free copy of their book by visiting summit.org/parents. Be sure to check it out. With that said, let’s jump into the discussion.
Moderator (00:01:39):
Welcome to this livestream event from Summit Ministries. Tonight, we are so excited that you’re joining us for this hour of content with Dr. Jeff Meyers and Dr. Kathy Koch tonight about their new book that is coming out this summer called Raising Gender Confident Kids. If you’re concerned about the growing confusion around gender and identity, then this next hour is going to be for you. You’re going to invest this time so that you can help the next generation.
We here at Summit understand that a biblical worldview offers clarity, truth, and lasting hope, and we want to help you raise children who are secure in who God made them to be. So we understand that this is also a very deeply personal and also overwhelming topic tonight, and we want you to know that you are not alone in this. So without further ado, I’m going to introduce our guests tonight.
(00:02:36):
First, we have Dr. Jeff Myers. He is the president of Summit Ministries. He’s a respected writer and speaker in all things related to worldview, apologetics, leadership, development, and more. He cares deeply about equipping the rising generation to embrace God’s truth and champion a biblical worldview.
And then next to him, we have Dr. Koch, who is the founder of Celebrate Kids, where she uses her expertise to help parents inspire children in their unique strengths and thrive in their identity. She is a prolific author and speaker known for addressing challenges in parenting and education with practical faith-based strategies, and she wants to see character growth, identity formation, and spiritual development in children. So welcome tonight.
Before we get started in this hour long program, the first half, we’re going to have a presentation by them with some questions I’m going to ask, and then we would like to have the audience interact in the second half.
(00:03:40):
So we want to, you’ll notice on your screen there are several icons where you can participate. So the first one is a chat button. So even right now on this screen, you can go ahead and just put where you are viewing from tonight and what your name is, and we welcome you and then even if you’re watching this recording later, thank you for joining us.
Another thing that we have for the live audience is a poll. So we will be putting some of those polls up at the beginning of the program, and you can go ahead and interact with our speakers through that way, and that will be a way that we can have this make it a little bit more personal tonight. And then finally, we have the q and a button. So please go ahead and even now start putting in your questions. And if there are ones that you have that are more important, then somebody has already said something that you ask, just upvote that and we’ll try to get to those questions first.
So without further ado, I’m going to ask Dr. Jeff the first question tonight. The first one, yeah, go ahead. Why this topic about gender identity and why now? Of all the things that you both could focus on, why should parents care about raising gender confident kids?
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:05:00):
Well, Kelly, gender confusion is one of the dominant confusions of our day. It is something that you see spread in schools. You see it spread through social media. You see it spread even through government edict in some places and in different states. I mean, I don’t know where everybody’s from, but I mean, some of you’re like, yeah, yeah, my state, we’re in Colorado. We’re seeing government edicts that demand, not only that we get rid of our idea of male and female that comes from scripture, but that we adhere to a new way of looking at this that tears down any kind of distinction between male or female or older, young or anything else.
So this postmodern impulse that developed over the years, over the decades, mostly in academia, behind those nice green lawns and the brick buildings that are so beautiful, you had these evil ideologies that were thriving trying to tear down any conception of truth. So it was only natural that eventually this would come to the issue of gender. I think what surprised me is how fast it developed. We learned in the process of writing this book that young adults are 1600% more likely to identify as transgender than those who are 50 years of age or older.
(00:06:26):
So it’s clearly something that’s happened in a generation that was totally unexpected. If you just see a trend clipping along like this, and all of a sudden it spikes, something happened. And we wrote this book to try to explain what happened, put it in very straightforward terms, and then most importantly talk about, what do we do? What do we do as parents, grandparents, people who care about young adults, how can we help them develop gender confidence? Because if they can’t be gender confident, all the other kinds of confidence are going to be much more difficult.
Moderator (00:06:57):
Absolutely. Very good. Yes. Thank you very much for that. We’re going to have a poll put up on the screen for the audience to interact with us right from the get-go. So we’ve got, the poll is going to be, let’s see. About what percentage of Gen Z in the US identifies as LGBTQ? And so the question here we have, the first one would be 10%, 25%, 40%, or 60%. So audience, please go ahead and participate in this and we’ll get the answer in just a minute.
And I’m actually going to ask you guys, while they’re voting a question about something similar, which we’ll kind of even give them a hint for this, but it’s also interesting to note that 30% of young Christians identify as LGBTQ, you say in your book. So can you speak to that and then give us the answer for this first question too?
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:07:58):
Okay. Well, I can speak to it a little bit. I think when somebody says they identify as LGBTQ, it is a statement about identity as much or more than it is a statement about sexuality. Most of the young people that we’re working with and the children that we have the opportunity to work with, this is not a sexual decision. This is not a question about, who do I want to be intimate with? It’s about, who am I as a person?
And young adults in this generation have been taught, this is startling to me and to other people who are my age, but they have been taught that your gender, male or female is not essential to who you are as a person. In fact, if anything, it’s something to be overcome and you need to let your feelings be very strong to overcome any of the things that you think might be your biological part of your destiny.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:08:59):
And I would add to that, that we have seen, and we believe that those who say that they identify with that population, that’s often not the case. They’re looking for popularity. And so they know that at their public school, their locker will be decorated and they’ll get to walk the red carpet because they finally came out and identified with who they really are. So I think in many cases it’s a fake looking for popularity, looking for notice.
Some of them are looking to shock their parents, make their parents really mad. They had wanting, we know of, we talk about in the book one young man who was told, well, if you haven’t kissed a girl yet, you’re obviously gay. That’s not true. That’s not what makes a person gay. So they’ve been lied to. That’s why we wrote the book to try to help parents and grandparents and even kids that might share the truth with that. No, these are lies. This is true. Yeah.
Moderator (00:09:49):
Yeah, that’s really good.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:09:50):
Our audience is really in touch with what we’re talking about.
Moderator (00:09:53):
They are.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:09:54):
Yeah, look at that. That is really incredible.
Moderator (00:09:55):
Yep, yep.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:09:57):
So 25%, is it 25% of young adults who identify as LGBTQ 39% of you said yes, it’s 25%, 30% of you said 40%, 22% said 10%, and 9% said 60%. So the correct answer is in the general population, according to the research that we did is about 40%, almost 40%, so 39%. And that does catch a lot of people off guard.
Now, as I was growing up, the percentage of people who identified as LGBTQ was very small in my school. We kind of knew who they were, who the students were, but we were fortunate to be in this sort of school where nobody made a big deal out of anything. So nobody got called out for any kind of identification. So they were just able to live their lives and be part of friend groups and things like that. But it was at best 2%.
Moderator (00:10:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:10:57):
Now, yeah. So it’s very different.
Moderator (00:10:59):
So this is why we need this book. Very good. Alright, Dr. Kathy, I’m going to ask you the next question. You both have written about the importance of having a healthy posture when facing cultural confusion. Can you talk about these four postures we should embrace as we engage with our child about gender and topic, identity topics, these being compassion, hope, truth and confidence. And I know it’s in the first chapter of your book, so I’d love to explain a little bit more about that. And then if the audience wants to know more, they’re definitely going to have to grab this book because it’s good.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:11:35):
Well, that’s why we wrote the book and that’s why we’re going to give it to you for free for coming tonight. So stay tuned, yeah.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:11:41):
We didn’t write the book because we like semicolons and commas. We wrote the book to be influential, and it’s a real honor to do that. We don’t want you to run from cultural dysfunction, conflict in culture, and even in your own family. We don’t want you to bury your head in the sand either. We want you to have compassion to really feel their pain. Don’t run from that. Feel their pain.
Let them know that you’re with them in that suffering and with that struggle, help them understand that you see them and you hear them in the midst of their pain and then work to help them. Part of compassion is working to help them, but we always want to feel their feelings first. If you jump right to the solution, they won’t feel seen in that. And that’s really damaging to their soul. So compassion, feel their pain, hope and hope in God.
(00:12:23):
Don’t put your hope in your kids and don’t put your hope in yourself. Right? Put your hope in God, the God of the Bible, the one true God, the God of the Bible, his word which is instructive and true and full of encouragement and reminds us to have grace, mercy, and truth and all of that. And then truth, one of the things we believe strongly about is that you not share your opinion when your kids come to you with any kind of trauma.
Dad, I think I’m born in the wrong body, or Mom, this person said that I am probably a boy, but I’m a girl. What does that mean? I want you to not share. Well, in my opinion, if you base your truth on opinions, you’re giving them a right to do the same thing. So you’re challenging them. But now they come home and they go, well, in my opinion, and now you have very little to fight them with, if you know what I mean by fight. Don’t really fight. That’s what I said. Don’t write that down.
So be really careful of your opinions. You have some, but they’re based on truth. But I’ve never talked with you, Jeff, about do believers have opinions? Now we can have an opinion. Do we like the rain? But do we really have opinions or do we have truth based on fact and wisdom and worldview?
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:13:25):
A fantastic question. I mean, we teach our students at Summit Ministries how to know the difference between a fact and an opinion, but it’s still very difficult for believers to understand that we are treating the text of scripture as fact. Yes, it does not mean that we understand everything about it or that we can prove that every miracle actually took place.
But everybody starts somewhere. Everybody has a source of truth. Everybody’s got a book. What is your book? And our book is this historically proven text that has been verified as having been transmitted accurately over millennia, and one that, as it’s applied to society, has always improved civilization.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:14:08):
I love that. And one of the things we talk about in the book is how you can help young people believe it, because we’ve both heard from parents, but my kids don’t believe the Bible’s true. So I can’t use what the Bible teaches as admonition, if you will, for ammunition for my idea. So there’s a whole chapter on biblical worldview and why do we know the Bible’s true? And why is it a good source of wisdom? So compassion and truth and hope, hoping in God not just yourself.
And then confidence, right? Confusion’s horrible. I don’t make good decisions when I’m confused. I don’t like myself when I’m confused because I want to be a person who bases my life on truth. So really dangerous. So hope, compassion, truth and confidence. And they lead to courage, which is confidence in action. And we know you need to be brave to speak the truth, in love to say no to the no things and yes to the things and to get help.
For some of you, the bravest thing you can do is call a pastor or call your mom or a life group leader or the women’s Bible study director or somebody even to call out to Summit and to say, man, I need some guidance here. So we feel like it’s a good way to start those postures. Children will listen longer.
(00:15:19):
Children will be more apt to come to us because what do they need, Kelly? They need compassion and hope and truth and confidence. They’re not going to get that from Twitter or Siri or Google, but they can get it from us if we’re present.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:15:32):
And Kelly, we would just add one quick thing to that. I think we have the opportunity to lean in. That’s why we talk about these postures. We’re leaning in rather than leaning away.
(00:15:45):
And I shared this on a show earlier today, and I didn’t mean to be demeaning to those who helped raise me because I thought they did the very best they could and they were wonderful. But there were oftentimes where I felt like I cannot talk to my authority figures about this or that because their response will be, you should be ashamed of yourself or you were raised better than that. And if I could never talk to a teacher or even at my school or just different places where I just thought, you know what? I don’t want to hurt their feelings. It’s just better if I don’t say anything at all.
What we are encouraging parents to do is, oh, no, lean in because you have the opportunity. Yeah, please help me understand. Can you share with me why you see yourself the way you do? And just different things that as the opportunity presents itself to move forward rather than backward.
Moderator (00:16:39):
Well, and as a parent, reading through this book already, chapter four was my absolute favorite because you’ve alluded to that, the biblical worldview and then the very practical aspects that you guys put in there for parents to actually do. I mean, some of the things you said were to practice listening to use open-ended questions before offering solutions, ask what they believe would be best.
I mean, there were very, very, very practical things in there that I’m like, okay, I need to have their book in front of me and open it to this page and then sit down with them. But it really, I think as a parent I can, and not whether your child is struggling with gender identity or not, this book is so good for just basic identity, knowing who you are in Christ, and that is the foundation of everything. So I really appreciate how practical this book is.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:17:32):
Thank you. Thank you. That means a lot because when we wrote Raising Gender Confident Kids, we both would say, well, here’s the point we want to make to you. And we didn’t want our readers to say, okay, that’s a good idea, but how would I ever say that? How would I ever say that to my child? How do I start that kind of conversation? So we counted over right about 200 conversation starters that are in the book that just lead you step by step through all of these tough conversations that you need to have. Here’s how you can actually say it. It’s so exciting.
Moderator (00:18:02):
And there’s several reminders too, because a lot of times my reading is at night, and so I’ll read the book before I go to bed, and then I go to bed and then the next day a busy mom, you’re just getting busy taking your kids and doing everything and you forget, oh wait, what did I read last night? Just to have that, the practical, and it’s a purse size book, it’s going to fit in a diaper bag and a purse. You could just grab it and go.
So when you need to keep it in your car, Deuteronomy 6, wherever you are going, you can have that reminder to establish those relationships with your kids. And if you don’t know what to say, it’s okay because your kids don’t always need the right answer. They just need to know that you care.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:18:39):
Preach. Kelly, could I add something that was really valuable? We wrote the book really as a preventive tool. We really want to get it in the hands of parents and grandparents and educators who don’t have kids who they think are struggling yet because we want you to be ready. The struggle could occur, we pray. It doesn’t, but it could be a neighbor, it could be a niece, it could be a kid in your church and your pastor’s aware that you have some wisdom.
Praise the Lord you know enough about culture to read the book. So it is really designed to prevent the trauma and the process. It will help you if your kids are already going down that path, and it will help with just about any identity issue. As you said, we want you to be ready to act, not react. So you can read it now and be ready.
Moderator (00:19:21):
And I love how you said not to be surprised in the book too. I think you said something about a stone face when your kid comes to you, whether it’s this issue or another issue, don’t act like, get all crazy. Yeah, this is we need to stay calm, we need to be ready and be prayerful about how to address it.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:19:38):
Can I elaborate on that for a second?
Moderator (00:19:39):
Absolutely.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:19:41):
So she’s right. If you act shocked or angry or disappointed, if they see that face or they think that’s the face they’re about to see, they can change their conversation. So they were going to come to you to ask about their body because they were teased or bullied, the guy was wearing the pink shirt or whatever, a stereotype which we address, I think, very well in our book about how dangerous that all is.
But if they see you get angry or shocked or disciplined or upset, they can either leave the room or they’ll change the topic and make up something that’s not serious. They don’t want to upset you. And so to be stone-faced to just listen longer, tell me what you mean by that, or man, keep talking, I need to understand you. And then eventually of course you’ll share how your heart is reacting to that, but not so quickly that they run from truth. I love that you caught that in the book. Yeah.
Moderator (00:20:30):
Oh, so good. Okay, so back on that same topic, there are with compassion, hope, truth and confidence. We’re going to put up another poll so we can have some more audience interaction here. And there are actually some opposites of these virtues. And so I’m going to ask the audience what opposite, which one of these do you think is the most problematic in raising gender confident kids? Would it be apathy, despair, lies, or doubt? So we would love to see what the audience says about this, and as they are coming in with their answers, do you guys have anything to say about that?
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:21:09):
This will be interesting. Just reflect on the culture that our kids are growing up in today. So last night I was over at the Summit Ministries Hotel speaking to the students, and I gave them an illustration that we used in the book. I had a small town, maybe 20 different belief systems from Jehovah’s Witness to Mormon to Catholic to Protestant to Baptist, Methodist, whatever, maybe 20 different things. So what’s actually true? Well, if you had a stack of 20 counterfeit bills and one real bill, you could find it. It would not be easy, but you could find it.
Well, I Googled in preparation for this book, the word religion, 1 billion results. Now imagine a stack of counterfeit bills that is 1 billion high that would go 68 miles into space. Now you got to try to find the one real bill in all of those counterfeits, it seems impossible. You have to have tremendous wisdom and discernment.
So what we’re trying to do is not just address the families where they say, I’ve already had this conversation with my child. I’m completely freaked out. She said that she’s a boy actually in a girl’s body, and I think it came about because she’s interested in engineering or whatever, which that’s actually a true story that actually happened as we were having conversations about this. A girl said, yeah, I was told you’re interested in engineering. You’re actually a boy. Just like that. So ridiculous.
Moderator (00:22:35):
Absolutely.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:22:36):
Well, what’s the path? What is the path to godly womanhood? What is the path to godly manhood? The culture’s not going to tell you this, and it didn’t in my day either. It didn’t.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:22:46):
No, that’s so true. The assumption is back in the old days, we would just find it like we were on the right path. You often say we don’t create our gender. It’s been created for us.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:22:54):
That’s right.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:22:55):
And you just keep aging up and growing up and you discover what it means to be a godly woman. Today’s young people have so many paths they could walk down and so many role models that it’s very, very discouraging, which is why we hope that parents and grandparents discern and guard boundaries or blessings when love is the goal.
Don’t ever apologize to your kids for having boundaries and standards. One of the points we make in the book, Jeff, that I value, and I’m sure you did as well, Kelly, when we introduce these ideas that lies apathy, doubt and despair are the opposites of hope and truth and compassion and confidence. We say boldly people are not the enemy.
(00:23:32):
People are not the enemy. We’re called to love and teach and call them to account if we have a right to do so in relationship. But these are the problems. This is what we need to be angry about, is that our young people are being lied to and that there’s apathy in our culture and doubt and despair.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:23:48):
Yeah, that’s right. It doesn’t just leave them at neutral, it misleads them in every turn. So learning to discern that. Interesting results. 45% say the lies are the biggest issue. Apathy 29% doubt, 14% despair, 12%. And they go back and forth between that and despair. Yeah. Yeah. All four of these are so horrible. I mean, they can keep you awake at night just thinking, I’ve got to fight. I’m trying to fight for the heart of my kids and I don’t even know where the battle is. I can’t even see the enemy. And in many cases, the enemy is something in social media.
(00:24:29):
If a child says, I was told at school, I’m a girl in a boy’s body, transgender, what is that actually? And they google the word transgender, they will be five pages deep into the search results, which no young person ever gets to before they find a single source that questions transgender ideology in any way. And on the first page there will be articles, here are the facts about transgender telling all of the lies.
Then there will be, and this is shocking, but there will be a website there that says, here’s how to get cross-sex hormones without your parents knowing Here is a website from a law firm, how to legally separate from your parent if they don’t affirm your transgender identity. All of that information is just one click away.
Moderator (00:25:21):
And this is why this is so important for not just the parents, but we know there are grandparents watching. And don’t ever estimate your value as a grandparent because that is so important. Youth pastors, pastors, Christian school teachers, mentors, just so thankful for our audience here, educating themselves so that they can be aware of these things. Half the time we’re so busy doing our thing, we don’t even realize that’s out there. And so thank you for bringing that up. Kathy, did you have something?
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:25:49):
One of the powerful chapters I think is the Lies chapter, the four major lies that young people might get caught into. So we want you to get the book to educate yourself, but we put the lies in the context of truth. These are four truths from scripture. Therefore we know these are lies. And so when we look at the fact that our audience is where there are lies out there, doubts are a terrifying thing for believers in my opinion. When you’re a solid believer and you have a biblical worldview, doubting is a scary theme because we know that it’s not of the Lord that we would not have confidence in him.
So I think the book’s powerful because Jeff is an expert in biblical worldview and apologetics and theology, and I think we write it in an accessible way and we put the cultural confusion in the context of scripture, which is going to be good for those of you who believe the scripture and is going to give you the confidence to communicate it well to the kids even if they don’t know the scripture is true yet.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:26:43):
Can I give an example of one of those lies?
Moderator (00:26:45):
Absolutely. Yeah. And then we’ll get into the questions from the audience.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:26:47):
So I mean, these are four very difficult things and half the people in the audience said, no lies are the dominant thing. I think that is correct. And one of the lies is the gender spectrum. Now it says that everybody, every human being fits on a spectrum from extreme male to extreme female. That’s what the gender spectrum says, and it’s on the internet. Kids get it in school, they’re taught this. They have to take quizzes about it in school.
Moderator (00:27:17):
Is that similar to the gender unicorn or was that an older version?
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:27:20):
Gender unicorn is, yeah, it’s a similar idea. And listen, the number of lies on this, it’s unreal. If you just ask, give me a transgender quiz, there will be 50 or so different websites that will come up with a quiz that you can take and it will tell you which of 68 genders you are. That’s what kids are doing. So parents don’t even know that their children are looking at all of these websites, so they’re not prepared for the conversation.
Start with the gender spectrum, extreme male, extreme female, GI Joe, Barbie. Okay. Since no person is actually really one of those or the other, then most of us are toward the middle, which means virtually everybody is transgender or non-binary. That’s what the gender spectrum says. It is a complete lie. Lie. There is no biological basis for it. There is no psychological basis for it. There’s no theological basis for it. It is a lie that’s put forward to try to make transgenderism seem like it is the mainstream thing.
(00:28:28):
If you draw it out for your children, then you say, so if a boy is interested in things that are stereotypically thought of as being of interest to girls, then maybe he’s actually a girl in a boy’s body. Or if a girl’s interested in things that are more stereotypically male, then she is maybe a boy trapped in a girl’s body, which is a wicked thing to say to a child because it’s not saying there’s something wrong with your body. It’s saying that your body itself is wrong and there is nothing you can do to fix it.
Instead, we should help children understand that there is a male spectrum and a female spectrum. There are boys who are more interested in the arts and things like that are stereotypically more of interest to girls. And there are boys who are interested in football and there are girls who are more tomboy-ish. You said in an audience one time 80% of the girls said they’re tomboy-ish.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:29:20):
80% of the girls raised their hand, teenagers raised their hands that they identified as tomboy. And then I said very boldly and quite loud, I said, tomboy are girls. And the boys clapped Jeff. The boys clapped instantly and they clapped loud. And then the girls joined them and it was a moment. They want to know that it’s okay to hunt with their dad or to get sweaty, to get dirty, to climb the tree and be a girl. You can be feminine and dress up and you can get dirty the next day. That’s right.
(00:29:47):
There’s nothing wrong with that. I loved writing that part of the book where a guy can like pink and a little boy can sleep with the teddy bear, and it doesn’t mean that there’s something wrong with him. We’ve got, and to the parents, there’s nothing wrong with you that you have a girl that would rather change the oil with dad than clean the kitchen with mom. You’ve done nothing wrong. This is all God wired into them, which is why we’re against stereotypes. We’re for what God has called us to.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:30:14):
Because why people are interested in something is very complex. We talk a lot about this at Summit Ministries when we help students discover their God-given design. If you take 10 people who love soccer, they’re all going to love it for a different reason. So you can’t just say, oh, well, you’re a sports person, you’re interested in soccer. Some people love it because of the team. Some people love the strategy. I know somebody who loves it because she’s into geometry. It’s the strategy to prevail in this competition.
Moderator (00:30:47):
Who would’ve thought?
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:30:48):
When I talk to the students, I ask them who likes to win, and almost every hand goes up. I like to win. But again, in this situation, we’re not winning over people. Our goal is to win people over to the idea that scripture is true and that God’s plan for boys and girls to become men and women is spectacular. And if we’ll understand it and pull back from all those cultural stereotypes, our kids will feel more relaxed about it, we’ll feel more relaxed about it, and we’ll feel much more comfortable walking alongside them as they pursue their interests.
Moderator (00:31:23):
Oh, this is so good. This is so good. Let’s get into some audience questions because there’s a lot, and I know that they have, we want to answer some for them. So the first one is, and whoever wants to answer, just feel free. Kathy, you’re on the spot.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:31:40):
Well, we’ll see. We’ll hear the question first.
Moderator (00:31:43):
Okay. What role does media and story time play in reinforcing or confusing kids’ identity and how can it compare leverages for good? I’m not sure exactly.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:31:55):
How can we leverage media for good?
Moderator (00:31:56):
Leverage it for good. There we go.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:31:57):
Media, not social media. Media.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:31:59):
That’s a huge question.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:32:00):
No kidding. Storytelling.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:32:03):
Yeah, storytelling. Okay.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:32:06):
Wow. Well, I mean one of the things I would say is the West Coast is resident liars. We just really have to be careful, right? There’s just so much that’s so deceptive and so wrong and so manipulative coming from, if you will, the Hollywood lie. They don’t want their family to exist. Disney movies don’t have moms. Just don’t think about it now because listening to me think about it later, but there’s just a destruction of the family, I think in general.
And the loss of identity, the loss of security, the deception is there, the quick pace, everything’s fun. It’s always fun and you always win. And that’s not how the world works. The story of the good always wins. That’s not true. We got to help our kids learn to walk through the hard times too, which are not often displayed in the stories that would come, I guess from media. What would you add to that?
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:32:57):
Well, my researchers today were out at the park with the students from Summit Ministries just doing sort of what they call spot focus groups. Hey, we’re doing some research. Can we ask you some questions? And the students gather around in little groups impromptu, and one of the students said, this is so good. This relates to what you and I talk about all the time. She said, I think our generation is uncomfortable being uncomfortable. What’s the story that we tell ourselves that we are owed happiness?
A lot of Christian young people believe, look, here’s my deal with you, God, I will be good. You don’t hurt me. Can we shake on this? Do we have a deal? But this is not the way we operate. We grow through our trials and we learn to become comfortable being uncomfortable. That’s what prepares us to be resilient. Dr. Kathy’s book on resilience was really good. That’s a whole other thing to help our kids develop a sense of resilience. Thank you.
But I think the storytelling of our culture is, it begins with a lie. The gender spectrum. It begins to say to you, the goal is not to seek the truth. The goal is to speak your truth. So how do you use media? I think a lot of, my knee’s cracking. It doesn’t really hurt. It just sounds terrible. You can cut that out.
Moderator (00:34:19):
It’s live.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:34:26):
What do you do? I think you tell the story. I think you just come out and tell the stories. I think there are going to have to be a lot of young adults. I mean, they’re on TikTok, they’re watching all of this stuff. Being able to get on there and be able to say, look, I don’t necessarily believe all of the stuff I’m being told by my culture about gender.
Why do you have to build up the stereotypes in order to tear them down in order to get power over me? You don’t love me. You don’t know me. You know nothing about me. And when young adults begin to tell those kinds of stories, it breaks the stranglehold of an ideology that might otherwise take them hostage.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:35:04):
You know what? Quickly, we’ve both spoken at grandparent events. Children love grandparent stories. They don’t not like parent stories, but our children love stories coming from grandparents, stories of victories. I walked to school, I have a high mountain both ways or whatever. Tell your stories and let them know what you have walked through and the confusions that you had when you were a kid and how did you discover truth and how has it mattered to you?
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:35:29):
That’s right. And make character the focus. We talked to one young woman who said she always felt inadequate because she didn’t like her hair. She had braces, she had glasses, and her friend was a very cute cheerleader type, and she felt inadequate. Most young adults at some point in time feel wrong in their body. What transgenderism is doing is giving them an explanation for it that is false and dangerous.
But this young woman had a mentor who was very wise and she said, look, someday you’re going to figure out what to do with your hair. You’re going to lose the braces and you’re going to get contacts. But what you’re developing right now in this season of your life, you’re character that is forever. That’s right, love.
So let’s set aside these worries and anxieties. We all feel them. We don’t have to listen to that voice inside of our heads. We can ask the question, what is going on and how can I help? How can I lift other people up? How can I be a blessing today? The more you move outside of yourself, the less you worry about how others see you.
Moderator (00:36:36):
And if you really like what they’re saying right now, you need the book. Because chapter nine is all about resilience and preparing our children to stand for truth. And so there’s so many practical examples of everything they’re saying so much more. So good. We’re going to get onto the next question, but did you want to add something to that?
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:36:56):
That’s okay, go ahead.
Moderator (36:57):
Okay. Okay. Alright. So the next one says, my three girls have been raised in the church, but they each have to varying degrees, sympathized or thrown into the LGBTQ crowd. And my son’s fiance also claims to be on the spectrum of sexuality. How do I tell them the truth without sounding judgmental? And you guys have some stuff in your book too about that, about how to deal with family because that’s hard when finding that truth in relationship. Any advice for her?
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:37:31):
Yeah, I feel for a person in that situation because it’s scary. What you end up feeling is depending on how I have this conversation, I could lose this relationship. And you don’t want to do that. So it feels like you’re walking on eggshells. I understand that one of the things we encourage people to ask is, can you help me understand you in this situation? You can play dumb. Okay.
You said you’re on the sexuality spectrum. We didn’t talk about that kind of thing when I was growing up. I feel silly not knowing, but can you help me understand what that means? How did you learn? Did something happen to you? Did you have an experience that led? Did somebody, did a teacher tell you that this is the spectrum and did you ever think that it might not be accurate? Or is that even a possibility that you’re willing to entertain? There are all sorts of questions you can ask just by way of opening up the topic.
Moderator (00:38:31):
And showing that you care. That relationship aspect.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:38:35):
We don’t have to have all the answers to have those conversations in our middle schools and high schools. If you’re not aware of this, it’s typical that girls have more girlfriends than boyfriends and then they assume, well, I must be lesbian. I have more girlfriends than boyfriends. No, girls have more girls as friends than guys. That’s been historical forever and ever. And so listen to them. What causes you to believe that this might be true? And then be ready.
And I don’t envy young people today, Jeff, who, what is love? And do I have to approve of my friend’s decisions? Do I have to be tolerant? Think, you think about kids in, especially our public schools. They know people who truly are living the lie of sexuality. They’re living as bisexual or gay or lesbians or trans. And our young people are taught in the church to love. What’s that feel like and look like in this situation? And this is where we would say 1 Corinthians 13 says that love tells the truth.
(00:39:28):
And so we can love them unconditionally because they’re image bearers of God Almighty and Jesus has died for them, whether they know that or not. And then we have conversations, and I would say if they’re believers, if they’re believers, if they’re Christ followers who have been discipled in the things of the faith, you can open the Bible and challenge them with what they might be doing to their friend. If it comes across as approving, it would be sin. Let’s call sin sin if they’re acting on those desires. And I think this is where the church has maybe gotten some things wrong, if that’s coming across okay.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:40:04):
Yeah, it’s hard. Listen, I hate to be an anti-public school person on this, but it is a fact in the United States of America that half of the public schools in this country regularly incorporate gender ideology into the classroom. The parents hate it. 80% of the parents say they hate it. Two thirds of the teachers in a teacher’s union survey said they don’t like it. Only 4% said they thought gender ideology is a helpful addition to the curriculum. And yet because of an ideologically driven administration in all of these different school districts, half the schools teach this.
So children are in the classroom and they hear about this every day. They’re asked by the teacher, what are your pronouns for an insecure child? It’s very easy for them to think, my teacher would not be asking me about this every day if there wasn’t really something to it. And then the children will begin to play on this with one another. And what I find scary, and it doesn’t just happen in public schools, it can happen all over the place. You have to be discerning about this.
Young boys and girls will groom one another. They’ll say, we can experiment. One girl said, well, I dated this guy and then I dated his sister. That’s cool for her to do that because she thinks that it makes her more desirable or attractive to other people, and that is her goal. So she’s always trying to have her needs met in some way that’s wrong.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:41:37):
And her goal is to be happy all the time.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:41:38):
Her goal, yes.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:41:39):
Yes. And so he didn’t make me real happy. I wonder if she would’ve made me more happy and it’s just a mess out there. They’re swimming in a mess, which is why we wrote the book.
Moderator (00:41:47):
That’s right. And it’s funny, it’s like you guys saw the next question or something because it’s right on topic here. Should Christian parents check what schools are teaching on sex and gender?
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:41:58):
Oh yes. Underline it, put it in neon. And we understand the decisions are challenging. The decisions are more complex than some people may realize. I would say you have a responsibility. You are the authority over your children, and yes, you need to check. And we’re so proud of the people who have checked and gone to school board meetings and even run for office and been elected. And to all of you listening who thank the teachers who have not been teaching the lie, let’s encourage the ones out there that are standing up.
If you’ve had a coach that has reacted rightly to the fact that a trans boy is on a team, so we can make a change, we can stand up and tell the truth, and let’s not also assume that every Christian school is doing it. Right? If I can boldly say that. So look at the curriculum, look at the values, interview the head of school. Go to a school board meeting. Ask your kids, hey, could you tell me the truth? What are you hearing about? A lot of them don’t like it. They want to learn math. They want to be an astronaut. They need math and science to be taught. They don’t want minutes given away to this live factory that’s there.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:43:02):
That is so true. I cannot tell you how many students I talk to who say exactly that. They’re like, oh, we just came to class. We just roll our eyes. It’s like all they’re trying to do is indoctrinate us rather than we’re trying to prepare for AP chemistry. We do not want to have our pronouns discussed for the first 15 minutes of class, so they do get tired of it.
(00:43:24):
So we’re not offering any of this. By the way, as therapists, this is not a counseling or substitute for counseling. Please understand. But the therapist that we did talk to in preparing for the book said, the best things you can do are affirm and try to build the relationship with the same gender parent if possible. Now, if there’s not a mom or a dad in the home, then there are ways you can do that through American Heritage Girls or Trail Life, Trail Life USA and others where you can find uncle, neighbor and coaches, godly mentors who are of the same gender. That’s one thing.
The second thing is there might be, in some cases, an underlying trauma. We are not the people to say everybody’s traumatized. Everybody needs therapy. We hear that all of the time, but there are cases where there was something traumatic that might not seem like a big deal to you, but it was to your child at least it triggered them and set them on a trajectory that took them to a bad place. A third thing is you’ve got to control the social media. Kathy, your book Screens and Teens is so important on this. Oh, thank you. We teach about all the time at Summit.
(00:44:32):
You’ve got to control access to social media because they’re learning. This is why a lot of parents don’t want to have this conversation with their kids because I’m terrified. They know more than I do about it. Well, of course they do. They read the first page of search results when they looked at transgenderism. They know the facts.
And then the final thing is the environment. Sometimes it has to change, I hate to say this, but if your child is being groomed at school, as long as they’re at that school, they’re going to have this conflict. And I know families, I’m thankful for the opportunities that in our own town, there are maybe 50 different school options for high school kids and a whole lot more for elementary and middle school kids. Sometimes you have to change and move to a different place, start over again as part of this process of helping your child become gender confident.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:45:22):
And in those moments that would be very challenging, and yet it’s gain. So we would encourage you to have your focus on the long-term fruit of the hard decisions that you’re making now, right?
Moderator (00:45:32):
That’s right.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:45:32):
Challenging. We have an FAQ section in the book, and I don’t know if you had a chance to read it, but there’s 24 frequently asked questions that we have in an addition to the back of the book, and that’s where we deal with some of these very specific issues. And we believe that’s going to be really helpful as well, along with notes and references and podcasts and all kinds of things that we’re going to make them available, make them know about if they buy the book.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:45:57):
Yeah, you’ll want to get the bookmark, genderconfidentkids.com. That’s where we’re going to start populating all of these different things as questions come in, then we’ll also answer them, and there’ll be a database there of all of the things that people can find helpful.
Moderator (00:46:10):
Oh, that’s really awesome. There’s going to be so many resources with this book as well, including an audio version, and some questions to go along with it. So anything else I’m missing?
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:46:22):
Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, there’ll be a lot of things. We are, Kathy just recorded the audio book yesterday, her half, and I’m recording mine tomorrow. So we will have an audio book, we’ll have a Kindle version, we’ll have the print version, which at the end, Kelly’s going to tell you how to get that book for free. And thank you for being here tonight to help us kick this off, and then we’ll see what other sorts of resources are helpful.
We don’t want to just put things out there, but you tell us, what do you need? Would a one minute video be helpful? Would that be easier than a short article or are articles better? Maybe they’re more searchable. I don’t know. We want to be helpful. We have actually committed when we wrote this book that we want to have so many resources that you could actually never read the book and have read the book. Oh, okay. Okay.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:47:15):
No, that’s good. It’s all about them. It’s all about what they need. Yes. How do you absorb the information?
Moderator (00:47:20):
We’re getting lots of great reactions.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:47:21):
Oh, are you?
Moderator (00:47:22):
They’re loving this. They want to be a part. That’s awesome. Good. Very good. Okay, we’re going to go to another question that had a lot of up votes here. It says, does your book discuss any correlation between gender confusion and the lack of fathers in many homes or the effect of broken homes?
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:47:41):
We mentioned the single mom factor in a discussion. I think a mom came to you and said, I’ve been raising my teenage boy. Am I remembering this right? By myself. And I’m concerned. So like Dr. Jeff just said, we’re certainly supportive of mentors, grandfathers and uncle, a neighbor, a coach, a pastor. I think whether it’s the mom that’s absent or the dad that’s most absent, to find someone that your child will relate to.
And we’re huge fans of American Heritage Girls and Trail Life USA, which are high school and younger kids. So correlation, we don’t discuss, is there one probably for all kinds of dysfunction and all kinds of confusion. And one of the things we say in the book, and we say it, I think with great integrity, when we allow small things to just be ignored, we assume, oh, that’ll go away. That’s just like today’s spider in the corner.
(00:48:35):
I’m going to pretend that’s not there. I don’t want to deal with it. If you continue to do that, the problems can escalate and become larger and messier and harder to function. And that’s going to be true if there’s two parents there or not. Jeff, we also know of a lot of married couples where there’s a parent absence. And I don’t say that lightly.
I don’t say that lightly, but a mom and a dad married, raising children in the home, but a parent who’s absent, a parent who’s overwhelmed, a parent who’s distracted, a parent who hasn’t chosen to engage well with kids, that actually can be more damaging to the child than to not have an adult there at all. So let’s get involved and let’s be proactive and let’s have that compassion and let’s have the wisdom and let’s apologize if we need to.
(00:49:15):
If somebody’s listening going, oh, I haven’t been available. We get that. We really do get that. The fact that you’re overwhelmed and distracted and you’re busy on your own stuff, the world is chaotic and people are messy, and it makes it hard for everybody. So if you’re listening going, oh, I haven’t been available. I haven’t searched my child’s computer to find out what he’s looking at. I’ve allowed them to have devices in their room. So no wonder they’re finding five pages of trash about trans. That’s okay. You don’t know what you don’t know.
But now, and now, we would encourage you with hope, compassion, truth, wisdom, confidence to make the decisions that you make and make the changes you can. You apologize, no guilt or shame for things that you didn’t know. The guinea pig kid, how many of you have a guinea pig kid? You all have a guinea pig kid, and you probably have nicknamed them that. Just let them know, you’re the guinea pig. And I’m so sorry. Just be honest with your kids.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:50:02):
Tara, who’s running the camera here, is nodding. She’s like, yes, I was the guinea pig kid. That’s hilarious. Yes. Yeah, it must be honest. It’s so true. But what you said about the uninvolved parent is very difficult. That’s very difficult to hear because we are busy and there are a lot of things going on. And if every child multiplied times another child times all of their activities, all their plays, all the things that the teachers want you to come to and you got to in class and you’ve got to go to sports activities and all these different things and read the Bible, you’ve got to read the Bible with them all the time.
You got to be in church every Sunday, Saturday, all sports all day, and then we got business trips and we got jobs, and we got to get paychecks. No wonder it’s so difficult for people. But Kathy, what you said is so important. Just release that guilt and shame that you’ve felt. Guilt and shame can immobilize you at the very time when doing one small thing differently today can make the difference. And then one small thing differently tomorrow. That’s why I love doing the conversation starters, because you know what? Just flip through the book and say, let’s try this one today. Let’s have them when my child’s coming home from school. Here’s a question. So then you just start.
Moderator (00:51:14):
Love that. Okay. I’m just thinking right now out loud when you said that we need a set of cards of the conversation starters. Then we can have them in the car, have them at mealtime. Make it.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:51:24):
One thing we did put in the book is about prayer, because Kathy and I both strongly believe in miracles.
Moderator (00:51:29):
Absolutely.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:51:29):
We see miracles all of the time. I look over here because the Summit Ministry’s Grandview Hotel is over that direction in Manitou Springs, Colorado. There are miracles taking place there tonight.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:51:40):
I get to speak tonight.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:51:42):
Okay. Their minds are going to be changed. There are going to be hearts. They’re going to be encouraged. Kids who didn’t think they had any value, who by the end of tonight are going to realize the value that they have. Those are miracles. So we continually pray for miracles in the lives of our kids, and we actually put a little prayer calendar in there. Here’s a prayer for Sunday. Here’s a prayer for Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, so that you have something you can focus on and post that write up on your refrigerator and just keep bathing your kids in prayer.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:52:12):
And we don’t believe in coincidences. We believe in miracles because we give God the authority to do what needs to be done in the lives of people. And I think a lot of people, I can be very guilty on a less than great day. I can be very guilty of taking credit for something or not seeing something, but we got to look for it. We got to believe God is on the throne and God is aware and God loves more than we do, and he’s going to cause a lot of really good things to happen. We believe that for you.
Moderator (00:52:39):
And with this emphasis on prayer and everything. I’m going to ask the last question here tonight that, I think, kind of ties in here, and I just lost it because it moved. Okay. I don’t know where it went. So I think, live, I’m going to just go to something else here.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:53:01):
I love it.
Moderator (00:53:03):
Okay, here it is. Here it is. What do you say to Christians who argue that engaging on topics like this is focusing too much on earthly things and limits our ability to share the gospel?
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:53:20):
When I hear that question, and I know it’s proceeding from a pure heart, just me to pause for a minute and to clarify my motivations. When we talk about sharing the gospel, we must always remember what you draw them with is what you’re drawing them to. And so if you draw people in to the gospel by ridding the gospel of all of its moral content.
(00:53:49):
Because remember the gospel is not just how to get to heaven. The gospel is how to, Jesus said, pray that God’s kingdom will be on earth as it is in heaven. It’s about bringing heaven here. It is about bringing Jesus into everything, into your theology, but also into your economics and everything else. So if you take all those pieces out of the gospel and then present the rest because you think it’s more loving to do it that way, what are you actually presenting? And I don’t even want to answer the question. I just want to leave that hanging because I think that’s a super serious aspect of this that we often don’t consider in churches.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:54:30):
Yeah, it’s really meaningful and a deep and a great question. We believe that many who consider themselves trans are angry at God. We know biblically that God is a personal, loving, strategic, intentional creator, creates us good in his image for his glory. Male and female, he knit us together. Knitting is a precise skill. He doesn’t make mistakes, but if they think he has, they’re not going to hear the gospel they’ve rejected.
So in many cases, we have to deal with those things that are challenging in order to have the right to talk about the goodness of God. We talk in the book, Jeff, about how important it is that churches deal with these issues for young people to want to be in church. We talk about if a church today is not willing to deal with the challenging issues, I might even say if the church isn’t willing to be a hospital where they’re broken, are allowed to sit in the front row. If the church is just neat and tidy, nobody here is dealing with that. They go across the road. Young people won’t be in that church because they want to wrestle.
Moderator (00:55:41):
That’s right.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:55:42):
That’s another reason we wrote the book, is to give you the truth that you can, if you will wrestle with.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:55:47):
The main thing our students tell us about their church is that they wish it would give them a way to understand and apply a biblical worldview in their everyday lives. They don’t want to ignore it, they want it to be brought up.
(00:56:03):
And some people say, well, you have to affirm. You have to affirm, affirm, affirm, affirm. But the whole idea behind transgender is what’s called gender affirming care, which is neither affirming nor caring, but it is still the dominant idea. So we just, everybody affirms, our students will tell us, we’re drawn to churches where they say, sometimes you will feel affirmed while you’re here and sometimes you will feel convicted while you are here and sometimes you’re going to feel affirmed and convicted at the same time. Welcome to life, because our goal is not to leave here the same. We want to be more like Jesus.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:56:38):
I spoke for the capstone program a week ago, which is a Summit alumni program. So young people who have been through the traditional two week course are able to then join this beautiful network of alumni and they had spent nine months together virtually, and they were together now for a week. And it was so amazing to be there.
And I was teaching something. I enjoy teaching very much and we had a small group activity and we were debriefing the small group and I asked students to share how they’re feeling. And I had everything from encouraged to challenge to delighted. And then I had a young man on my left leaning against the wall, hesitate to raise his hand and he did. And then he said, convicted, and you could have heard a pin drop.
He was the one who was willing to go to that hard place to say, man, this was so important for me to hear. And it helped me realize how far off the mark I’ve been lately. It’s hard to, I think, sometimes feel and hear the spirit and respond with humility to that. I was so proud. That’s another thing Summit does I think really well is challenge young people to want more for themselves. And they do the church, we can do this. Well, we can learn how to do it well again. And that’s really a part of what we all hope to do here.
Moderator (00:57:49):
Yeah, that’s awesome. They are. They’re getting so much inundation from culture, whether it be at their school, whether it be on their soccer team, whether it be on social media. We need the church speaking into these topics from a biblical standpoint. So we appreciate that. Are there any closing remarks that you have before I tell them how they can get the book and all the resources we have?
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:58:11):
I could tell a story if there’s time.
Moderator (00:58:13):
We have time. Tell the story.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:58:14):
Do we have enough time?
Moderator (00:58:14):
We do. Tell the story.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:58:18):
I want to also say, Kelly, thank you for your awesome preparation.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:58:22):
You’re so good at this.
Moderator (00:58:22):
This is so fun. I love it.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:58:24):
I wouldn’t want to have that in my hand where everything’s jumping around because you keep voting on the question.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:58:30):
You keep putting hearts up.
Moderator (00:58:32):
Yeah, it’s great. You’re getting a lot of great reactions.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:58:33):
Have you got any thumbs down like that?
Moderator (00:58:35):
No, I didn’t see any thumbs down. I saw a lot of happy reactions. So come on audience, give us some more. There we go. There’s some clapping. There we go. Isn’t that fun? That’s so good. I love it. Thank you guys.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:58:45):
Well, oh, it’s such an honor to write the book with you. And for Summit too, lemme tell you a story. I was in a church a while back and I spoke on gender. We had everything from middle school up to the 80-year-old. So we had middle school, high school parents, grandparents, social workers, school teachers, had everybody in the room, probably about 200 people. And my privilege to share the testimony with somebody and then open it up for anything Q and A, anything goes Q and A with the texting. So nobody knew who was asking the questions.
And at the end of the night, I entertained a family who wanted to talk. And this young girl, a ninth grade girl had decided to become a boy. She had believed the lie, was uncomfortable with her body and didn’t know she could work on some things so that she would be more comfortable, didn’t know to wait. We talk in the book, Jeff, about the benefit of long waiting. The number of people who when they’re preteens and teens are thinking they’re trans. And if we don’t intervene, if there’s no medical intervention, by the time they’re 18, the vast majority of those young people will change their mind.
Dr. Jeff Myers (00:59:44):
It’s probably around 90%.
Dr. Kathy Koch (00:59:45):
90% of them will then say, hey, okay. Because we helped them live through those moments of braces and curly hair and acne, and I didn’t make the team and I don’t know who I am and what to do. So this young girl was, ninth grade girl, was pretty much in that space. She didn’t like herself. And so she had begun to transition, no medical transitioning allowed, but had cut her hair, had stopped, the makeup had changed the posters in her room, had changed her clothes to wear male clothes. She did ask for a name change and her parents were really struggling and they knew that she was so lost.
Jeff, it’s got to be so hard for parents to know. They’re just lost and confused and she needed truth. The parents, so proud of the parents. They said, would you go talk to pastor one more time? Please just go one more time. And this young girl humbled herself and went to the senior pastor and he was willing to meet with her, to God be the glory. He said, what you teach in the book for people to say, help me understand again what has happened. That’s all he said, help me understand. You know what she said? I can’t hear God anymore.
(01:00:49):
I don’t hear God anymore. He’s obviously upset with me. I am praying I used to. I don’t feel him. I don’t sense him. I don’t hear any answers. I just think he’s abandoned me. And the senior pastor, I’m so proud of him, leaned up and leaned in and said, oh, that happens to me sometimes.
Moderator (01:01:10):
Wow.
Dr. Kathy Koch (01:01:10):
And this ninth grade girl gives me chills. She’s like, wait, you’re the pastor. And he goes, sweetheart, it’s a relationship. And like any relationship, there may be some valley and some mountaintops and some highs and some lows, but the scripture says he’s always present. The scripture says he hasn’t abandoned you, and this is what we believe. We don’t believe our experiences. We believe the holy, accurate, transformative, relevant word of God.
And opened it and reminded her of what she already knew. And she’s like, so you don’t hear from him sometimes? And he said, yeah, yeah. She went home, filled nine garbage bags, five hours, five hours, nine garbage bags of music and books and posters and clothes and hair gel and all kinds of things. And begged the dad at midnight to go to the dump.
Moderator (01:01:57):
Praise God.
Dr. Kathy Koch (01:01:57):
And he did, the dad did with her. And they dumped nine garbage bags when she woke up the next day a girl because she was challenged to go see a pastor and a pastor had the guts to hear her heart. And I just wonder how many young people, again, have reasons to give up if I can put it that way. I don’t think they teach that well, Jeff.
So I just want to encourage people that, you might feel like you don’t have a lot of opportunity to change culture. Now we do write in the book about prayer changes, culture, volunteering and serving and truth. All these things change culture. But we know you have authority and power in your own home like you might’ve forgotten you have.
Dr. Jeff Myers (01:02:35):
That’s right.
Dr. Kathy Koch (01:02:35):
And this was a mom and a dad who had not given up on the daughter and a mom and a dad who said, please, one more time. They knew the pastor still had authority and they maybe had lost some of it. I was so proud of them. And she’s changed. She’s changed to God be the glory.
Moderator (01:02:50):
What a way to just end this live stream and hope. I love that. And that’s what we want to do is give the parents hope that there always is that in Christ Jesus. So thank you so much, Dr. Jeff and Dr. Kathy. This has just been so enjoyable. And if you’d like to read their co-authored book, Raising Gender Confident Kids, you can find the free resource at summit.org/parents.
And there’s also a place there where you can register for our next live stream, which will be next month with Phylicia Masonheimer. She’s going to join us. She wrote a book called Every Home a Foundation: Experiencing God Through Your Everyday Routines. Phylicia is passionate about helping parents form young disciples to have a flourishing faith. Again, you can find more information at summit.org/parents.
And finally, I’m super excited about this. I don’t know if it’s been announced anywhere, but we are also starting here at Summit, a podcast called Upside Down Parenting, and I’m kind of a podcast junkie. I love them. And this is going to be on the top of my list. Our first season will focus on gender and identity, and we’ll be diving even deeper into how to raise kids who are confident in their God-given identity. So you can find that podcast on our website or wherever you listen to podcasts. Again, thank you so much for joining us, and we will see you next time. God bless.
Dr. Kathy Koch (01:04:15):
Thank you.
Dr. Jeff Myers (01:04:16):
Goodnight.
Janel Greig (01:04:18):
I hope you enjoyed this insightful conversation with Dr. Kathy and Dr. Jeff. Don’t forget, you can grab a free copy of Raising Gender Confident Kids by visiting summit.org/parents. Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and join Matt Jones and me as we journey with you in raising the next generation of kids to embrace God’s truth and champion a biblical worldview.