Welcome to the Upside-Down Parenting Podcast! As we step into the Christmas season—a time filled with joy, anticipation, and plenty of emotion—we’re glad you’re here. I’m joined by my co-host, Matt Jones, and together we’re slowing things down to talk about what it really looks like to flourish as a family during the holidays.
Whether you’re wrapping gifts, driving to a Christmas program, or grabbing a quiet moment between events, this episode is an invitation to cultivate a season marked by presence, connection, and intentionality—all while keeping our hearts centered on the birth of our Savior.
Have a question you’d like us to explore in a future episode? Email us at podcast@summit.org
—your question may shape an upcoming Q&A!
Episode 24: Summary & Transcript
Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Episode Summary
In this episode of the Upside Down Parenting Podcast, Janel and Matt discuss how families can flourish during the Christmas season. They share personal family traditions, both old and new, and reflect on how traditions evolve as families grow. The central theme of the conversation is the importance of prioritizing presence over the cultural pressure for perfection. They offer practical advice on how to slow down, be intentional, and shift the focus from consumption to worship and service, grounding the conversation in the theological significance of Christmas as the celebration of Christ’s incarnation.
Episode Transcript
Janel Greig (00:00):
Welcome to the Upside Down Parenting Podcast. We hope you’re having a fantastic Christmas season with family and friends.
Dr. Matt Jones (00:07):
Absolutely.
Janel Greig (00:08):
I’m here with my co-host, Matt Jones. Hi, Matt.
Dr. Matt Jones (00:11):
Hi. Good to see you.
Janel Greig (00:12):
And we are so glad that you’re joining us today. This time of year is filled with joy, anticipation, and a whole mix of emotions. And we’re excited to slow down with you and talk about what it really means to flourish as a family during the holidays. Whether you’re in the middle of wrapping gifts, driving to a Christmas program, or just catching your breath between events, we want to help you cultivate a season that’s grounded in connection and presents with your family, focused on the birth of our savior. So Matt, how are you doing and how’s your family this Christmas season?
Dr. Matt Jones (00:45):
Well, it’s good to see you. Thanks for asking. It’s weird because I think I’m adjusting to change.This will probably be the last Christmas and we’re grateful for the family expanding, but this will be the last Christmas with just the five of us. And you start reflecting and thinking about, first of all, just all those Christmases you spent together with your kids, celebrating the life of Christ and the birth of Christ.
And then you start thinking about, okay, my parents, how did they handle bringing a future in- law or an in- law into the family? And man, one of the things I really appreciated about them was once Cathy was officially part of the family, she was just one of the family. I asked, why does she get just as many, if not more gifts than me? And they looked at me and said, “We have about 25 years to catch up on blessing her.” I was like, “That’s a pretty neat upside down perspective.”
Janel Greig (01:47):
I love that.
Dr. Matt Jones (01:47):
Especially in light of some of the interactions we’ve been having with future children of parents who are about to get married. And it’s just interesting to kind of think about those things and just say, “Okay, how can we bless these new family members in laying a foundation for helping them and encouraging them whenever they, Lord willing, have kids one day?” How about you? Anything reflective with you with family traditions or family changes or anything like that?
Janel Greig (02:21):
Yeah. I think that it’s interesting to think about because when you’re talking about when Cat joined your family, I was thinking about when I joined Christian’s family and how the melding of the traditions come together because you’re bringing.
Dr. Matt Jones (02:32):
That’s a good point.
Janel Greig (02:33):
Yours and your spouse is bringing theirs. And then as you do have kids and start your household together, you want to step into your own family traditions. So it’s interesting to think about how that changes over the years too. I love Christmas time. I love it.
Dr. Matt Jones (02:51):
I can tell.
Janel Greig (02:52):
I know. I know.
Dr. Matt Jones (02:54):
You got your Christmas sweater on. So wait, can you tell our audience what your Christmas sweater says? Yes. Because I thought that was pretty clever.
Janel Greig (03:01):
I love, this year, as I’m working at a school, we kind of pride ourselves on having something to wear every day in December before Christmas break. So my collection grows every year. And this year, shout out to Women in Apologetics because I got my sweatshirt from them and it’s a Narnia Christmas sweatshirt. It says, I asked the lion what he was doing in my wardrobe and then he says, “It’s Narnia business.”
Dr. Matt Jones (03:26):
Narnia business. That’s pretty good.
Janel Greig (03:27):
There you go. That’s this year’s.
Dr. Matt Jones (03:28):
Well, I’m about to put on the extent of the Christmas attire I have. First of all, it is my tie. And second of all, I have a Santa hat that says Bahambug.
Janel Greig (03:43):
I feel like we’ve got the dichotomy of two extremes between us now.
Dr. Matt Jones (03:45):
Yes. So hopefully people will understand both sides of the perspective when it comes to Christmas and that either perspective, we come back to Christ.
Janel Greig (03:55):
Amen.
Dr. Matt Jones (03:56):
That’s where we want to end up today. But did you have a favorite family tradition when it comes to Christmas celebrations?
Janel Greig (04:07):
I have a lot of favorite family traditions that I can think of. I think one that I love that has carried from growing up as well as into our own traditions now, and my husband experienced this too, is the candlelight service on Christmas Eve. And that’s one that just was part of our normal family rhythms.
And as a kid, I grew up on a farm. My dad, it was the farm that his grandpa purchased. And so we had grandma and grandpa on one side in their house. We lived in a house and then my great aunt was on the other side. We’d all come together for Christmas Eve and we get to do that at grandma’s house. And then we went to church for Christmas Eve service. So as a kid, there was a little bit of anticipation. I want to get through church because I want to get home and open presents.
(04:51):
But as I got older, I really started to appreciate that tradition and the focus, the candlelight focus on what we’re celebrating at Christmas. And now with our own kids, we attend with one of the grandparents set of grandparents every year. It’s just tradition that we get to do that and it’s such a blessing. And so that’s absolutely one of my favorites. That’s great. What are some of your favorites, Matt?
Dr. Matt Jones (05:14):
Yeah. Well, I appreciate you bringing in the blending of the family of traditions because these are reflective of my wife’s side of the family is one and my side of the family is the other because we didn’t grow up, or I don’t recall growing up going to a Christmas Eve service, but my wife did. And she says, “Matt, we’ve got to do this. ”
And so we added another element and we would go to the Christmas Eve service and it was great, but then we would find a family that either we connected with or was hurting or could just use some type of celebration and we would go out to eat afterwards and just show them care and concern to lay the foundation for our kids that, yes, this is about Christ, but not only did Christ receive gifts, but he also was a gift.
(05:59):
And so we tried to make Christmas Eve about celebrating Christ’s gift to us and then trying to extend that to someone else. And then afterwards, once we were done with that family or that couple, we would go back, and this was more from my side of the family, we sit around the Christmas tree and we read either from Matthew or Luke, their Christmas narrative.
(06:21):
And we just sit and reflect and usually sing a Christmas song and just a lot of times just say something we’re thankful for about Christ. And then we do open a gift from a family member that we think is going to give the worst Christmas gift that year to just get that one out of the way so it can be all celebration the next day.
Janel Greig (06:43):
Wait, how does that work? Who picks that then? Do you pick?
Dr. Matt Jones (06:45):
Well, because of my bah humbug background, I usually have a pretty good idea.
Janel Greig (06:52):
Oh, I love that.
Dr. Matt Jones (06:53):
But it’s fun. But yeah. And then one more thing that we give each Christmas is we give a gift of time. And it’s a gift during the year where it’s just the two of our kids, I mean, excuse me, just the two parents, mom and dad, and we go and do something special with one of the kids. And it is a gift of time.
We are saying we care so much about presence with you and that’s not like gifts, presents, that’s being with you, presence, that we want to do something special just the three of us. And my kids have really, really, really enjoyed that. And we haven’t been able to pick the perfect thing we would like to do, but I was just curious. I hear some language regarding perfection or I have to have a perfect Christmas. And I was just curious what your perspective is on that.
Janel Greig (07:52):
Yeah. I think as a young parent, and I remember being in my … I was in a mops group, a mothers of preschoolers group, and that was about the time Pinterest I think made its presence known. And I can remember having conversations with other mamas saying, “I’m so thankful that Pinterest wasn’t around when we got married because, the pressure.” And there’s definitely that pressure that comes from the image, the social media, the comparison game.
And I think that has really poured into the idea that you have to have a perfect Christmas. And I think that is so damaging to what, I mean, ultimately what Advent is about, what we are anticipating, that we celebrate and recognize at Christmas. And so I definitely struggled with that as a young mom. And there’s moments I still, I think there’s even the pressure, like we’re talking about traditions, but there’s even the pressure of, well, what are your traditions?
(08:51):
And so I think it’s important to not get lost in that. From a biblical worldview, the idea of presence over perfection is upside down from what God desires. He desires us fully to lean in and serve him and serve others, which is the opposite of putting on a show and worried about the appearance and worried about the experience.
And so I think it’s important for parents, and it’s hard because there is that competitive around us everywhere, especially the pushing of commercialism, but to remember that the incarnation, what we’re celebrating at Christmas is the ultimate act of God’s presence. It’s truly God with us. And so to remind ourselves, presence, being present, not presents with a T, presence with a C, is what we should be focused on.
Dr. Matt Jones (09:42):
Yeah. And thankfully, of course, he says, I have to say the whole thing, in the beginning was the word, word was with God, word was God, and the word became flesh. And I appreciate you bringing that up. And we have tried to turn remembering presence into proclamation because this really is an incredible time of season to proclaim who Christ is and what he’s done with so many symbols and ideas that point to Christ’s work on the cross and it’s just, or his birth in anticipation of his cross. And it really is a lot of fun.
So where do you think … Well, I should ask it like this. Do you feel like parents need to … Where do you think the parents need to adjust in terms of shifting from that idol of present, excuse me, of perfection to this intentionality with presence? Why do you think that is?
Janel Greig (10:40):
I think it’s the social, the advent of the social, not advent Christmas, but the advent of the social comparison and those platforms. And also, I mean, we’re human, and so that comparison is a natural, that coveting, I want what they have. And so I think that’s where it comes from. I think there’s so many things that we can do as parents. And again, we talk about this over and over again, the intentionality.
If we let the default modes step in that competitive nature, “Oh, I’m going to buy this. I’m going to figure out a way to make this work. I want to focus on this tradition.” But for us as parents, it’s pick one or two traditions, just focus on those, focus on being present. You talked about reading scripture and I think the traditions, the being present with our kids, it doesn’t have to cost anything.
(11:28):
Read from Luke, read a chapter each night through December. There’s things that seem simple, but are so meaningful. And I think both of us as evidenced throughout the memories, just the few memories we shared at the beginning, those were about experiences and things that were relational, not a gift I got.
Dr. Matt Jones (11:49):
Yeah. And I appreciate that because, actually, and this has been a weird shift for me because being in Colorado, we’ve had a couple times where Christmas was on Christmas day and the churches have canceled. And I remember as a kid, those being my favorite Christmases, because the church came together not only as a family, but after our family hung out, then we went with our church family and the church did extra things to demonstrate how awesome kids were. And that has been really a source of lament for me that, wait a minute, whenever we go to church, we’re a family of families and I just …
Oh, that one, that is kind of upside down to where our culture has said, yeah, this is all about getting together with your family, which is phenomenal, but it’s been at the expense of the greater community of coming together and worshiping, even if he had a Christmas Eve service the night before. So I don’t know. So that to me, whenever I think about that, sets up really something I’ve been thinking about. How do we slow down during this time period enough to notice that God might be doing something during their family? And what’s one thing that you guys like to do to slow down, Janel?
Janel Greig (13:08):
I think it’s important to truly unplug, and that comes from that pattern of Sabbath. But I think for us, one of the things, especially this time of year that we do is we focus on advent. We do the candles, we do that focus every week. And I will say in this season of life, I try to find a different book or study each year to have as a focus. We miss a night here and there just because of the season we’re in.
Dr. Matt Jones (13:32):
Can I ask a clarifying question? Do you guys do that at home at night each night or is it in the morning before? Okay, cool.
Janel Greig (13:38):
We do. We do it at the dinner table. So we have our advent wreath with the candles on the table and step into. So every Sunday we light a new one. Yeah. What about you? What are some things that you do to intentionally slow down or that you would recommend?
Dr. Matt Jones (13:51):
Yeah. Well, if our audience hasn’t picked up on it yet, my wife and I are planners. And so we usually have a really good idea around September, October of what our budget is for the Christmas season, what three categories or four categories we’re looking at in terms of the kids, young adults now, but the kids growing up and then we try to have stuff done. I know this sounds crazy, but we try to have it done by the end of October or middle of November. So that, and that’s not an expectation for everybody, but it’s definitely upside down so that we’re not focusing on those types of things for the month of December.
And then of course, as you mentioned, we’ll do Advent with the kids more and of course celebrate Christmas. But those are a couple things that we like to focus on. And for those of our listeners who are not familiar with the language of Advent, it’s the coming or arrival of … Well, that’s what it literally means, the coming or arrival, but in particular, it focuses on Jesus coming approximately 2000 years ago and then the future anticipation of his return.
(15:04):
And that kind of keeps us in balance to say, “Listen, while this stuff is cool, we need to be ready for Christ’s return at any moment.” So were there things that you try to do to shift the attitude from Christmas is all about me or Christmas is all about you kids to understanding worship and proclamation rather than perfection and consumption.
Janel Greig (15:29):
Yeah, absolutely. I think in our house, I love baking and that’s another one of those Christmas traditions that we bake Christmas cookies and we give them to our … And that’s an opportunity to just love on our family as well as our neighbors. It’s also a great opportunity to get to know your neighbors if you don’t. So I think serving others, turning that outward a little bit.
I was going to say this is simple, but sometimes it’s not this simple, hosting a family. There’s opportunities to buy Christmas gifts. Our church sponsors different organizations that you can take the tag from the tree and do that, or an entire Christmas dinner. And I think those are ways to use what the Lord has blessed us with to serve others and to help our kids keep the focus on how much we do have compared to others, how blessed we are. Yeah.
Dr. Matt Jones (16:25):
And that’s a really good point because I forgot as what we used to do when our kids were younger, we would do Samaritan’s purse, but they would have to pick an age that corresponded to them and then we would go to the store and say, “Okay, what do you think the children your age would want? ” And so it shifts from, wait a minute, shifted from, “Wait a minute, this is all about me,” to, “This is an opportunity to minister to somebody my similar age.” And we would have them do the notes.
And then the other big thing that we would do is after Christmas, every New Year’s Day, we would sit around the Christmas … I mean, excuse me, sit around the dinner table, we would make homemade donuts, we would have sparkling cider, and then my wife would keep track of who gave us what, except for the Christmas Eve one. And I’m just kidding. And then everybody would write a thank you card, or all of us would write in one thank you card.
(17:25):
I should have clarified that. And that was just fun. That was something our family did as a ministry. It helped us interact, and it was fun to even recall what the folks got us, because unfortunately, you forget within a week. And so that was good. It was good recall and just a blessed time for our family to be together.
Janel Greig (17:52):
I love that. Our kids, well, all of us, we still do thank you cards, handwritten ones, because I think that is that intentional gratitude too, but it means so much, especially in this day and age to get a handwritten note from somebody. It’s really, really special. Yeah.
I think one of the things that I love, Christmas card collection, we do that and I hang them all up, keep them all, and then throughout the year we pray for each one. We spend a week and it goes on our family calendar with our plans for the week and we’re praying for that family that week. And so I think there are moments to pull, like you’re talking about your thank you moments, but to pull out of this season two that do carry through the entire year and can help the kids, our kids, as well as us keep the focus outward.
Dr. Matt Jones (18:39):
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s great. And I remember you mentioning praying for the cards that you received throughout the year. I’m hoping that Cat and I can implement that because we keep some of them, but they’re on the wall and it’s neat to see those families. And whenever we walk by them, I pray for them, but then I kind of forget about them throughout the year. So thanks for being more mature than me on that one.
So yeah, it’s been a lot of fun. And I just think about the gifts and that takes me back to the gifts that were given to Jesus by the Magi and Matthew two. And I’ve spent a lot of time in the Book of Matthew and there’s some different debate regarding whether or not those gifts literally should be understood as representing something or they were just gifts from the Magi.
(19:29):
But from what I have studied, origin, Church Father from around 250 AD and Ironas around 188D, they each attribute those three gifts to something specific. So gold was associated with Jesus as King, frankincense because frankincense was used in worship to God, that was representing Jesus as God. So we’ve got God and King. And then of course, myrrh was a death or burial spice. And that was according to both Origen and Irenaeus, a reminder of Christ’s mortality.
And like I said, there’s some debate there regarding the representation of those three gifts, but when I look at the study and intentionality of the book of Matthew, those seem to show up as themes or actually do show up as themes in the birth narratives in Matthew one and two. And Matthew highlights some things uniquely that Luke does not, that reinforces the significance of these three gifts, that Jesus is King.
(20:35):
Jesus is God and Jesus was human. And I think those are important to point out because Jesus needed to be both fully human and fully divine to be the appropriate sacrifice on the cross. And of course, as a result, he gets to be our king. And so anything we can do as parents to reflect on proclaim, Jesus is not just truly God and truly human, but also say, listen, he’s king, he’s Lord.
And we need to use Christmas time as an opportunity to not only be present with our children, but be present with the triune God and proclaim how great he is. And we hope, we pray that we’ve given you guys some ideas to engage your family at that level because we need to be extremely intentional in letting our kids and letting those around us know that Jesus is king. He is God and he took on human form for our good.
(21:44):
So did you have a favorite family activity that you did growing up with your husband or with the kids as a result of Christmas? Is there one that says, man, or was there a favorite Christmas gift that you can think of that has had a long lasting impact for you, Janel?
Janel Greig (22:08):
I don’t know that a favorite Christmas gift comes to mind, but one of the traditions that we’ve carried over that is so fun and we still do it. I did it for years with our kids when they were really little and little mommy group friends in our prayer, my prayer group, my Thursday morning prayer group, we would do gingerbread houses and we would use graham crackers.
Dr. Matt Jones (22:28):
Those drive me crazy.
Janel Greig (22:29):
Oh, I love them. See, here, if we’re opposites again, we would decorate them. We do that and the kids, it’s a wonderful memory. My kids do it.
Dr. Matt Jones (22:38):
It’s a wonderful mess. It’s like playing with Play-Doh.
Janel Greig (22:42):
No, it’s so fun. You get to eat it too. But we do it at my husband’s, at his mom’s house. The kids look forward to the gingerbread house competition every year. They do it there. She keeps those little milk containers and then they can put them on there.That’s just something. And again, it’s time together. Everybody’s having fun laughing. Sometimes people’s fall, but that’s part of the fun. What about you? What’s a super memorable gift or tradition?
Dr. Matt Jones (23:07):
Well, we’ll save one hopefully for next Christmas, but I have this Bible right here. It’s been through a lot and my dad’s not the most verbose person in the world. It’s funny, I grew up with parents who are both introverts and I don’t know how I turned out the way I did, but in the inside of it, this is from December 25th, 1989, my dad wrote, and again, he’s not a very verbose person, but he wrote, “God’s hand has been, is, and always will be upon your life. Hold fast.”
And this thing is, my goodness, I think 35 years, no, yeah, 35 years old. And if there’s a fire at our house, after I get two of the three kids, because my wife gets committed to get to third. Ah, there you go. I set you up. My wife committed to get to third. This is the thing that I get out of the house.
Janel Greig (24:04):
I love that.
Dr. Matt Jones (24:06):
And it just shows not only my dad’s love, but also he writes that in the scriptures, which proclaim the truths that we get to live by. And so I think there’s enough evidence that in the scriptures that families did things together back then, and we really want to encourage you guys to be upside down, to shut off the TV, even on Christmas day and do as much as you can together.
And then afterwards, or even before, as Janel pointed out, deliver food or cookies to a neighbor. Offer free babysitting to a young couple or a single parent who needs a break. If you’re newlyweds and you’re kind of catching on, establish some family traditions. And when your kids are older, get some opinions of establishing some family traditions. Drop off flowers to a widow or someone who may have lost someone over the holidays.
(25:06):
So be aware, be present, and if the Holy Spirit leads and guides you, be responsive and hopefully you can do it as a family. So any other thoughts, Janel? I have loved learning about your Christmas traditions. That’s been great.
Janel Greig (25:23):
I love that you threw in that last little comment about developing and they can change. I think last year, I don’t know how many times it takes to make something a tradition. Is it once? Do you do it twice and it’s a tradition? I don’t know. I don’t know. That’s a good question. Last Christmas we had the opportunity, there’s a local church and they do what they call the journey to Bethlehem. And I don’t know how we never heard about it, but last year was the first year we went. And one of the first things the kids asked this year was, “Are we going again?”
And it’s such a cool experience to walk through. You’re a part of a play, really. You’re walking through and experiencing the Christmas story, the sights, the sounds, the set. And so I think I would step alongside you and encourage parents. It’s okay that traditions change or look for new opportunities, ask your kids what they want to do, but be present with them, make that presence over perfection, the focus.
Dr. Matt Jones (26:12):
That’s great. And I think if we do that, we will be upside down parents that recognize that kids need the presence of their parents to point to the presence of the triune God. So that is awesome. Well, thank you so much, Janel, for your insights today.
For those of us who are joining us, thank you for listening in on the conversation. We would encourage you to go ahead and have conversations with your spouse or with your children to say, what traditions would we like to set up or continue really no matter their age because little kids can have some really cool ideas.
Our hope is that something you heard today encourages you to slow down, breathe a little deeper, and notice the meaningful moments God is placing right in front of you because the holidays do not have to be a flawless, beautiful, coming together of family. And they’re not going to be because there are still sinful people even in your family.
(27:11):
We just get to do that in light of and in spite of that in a way that says we intentionally want to be with you and show you love. So if this episode was helpful, we’d love for you to share it with another parent who might need a little encouragement this week. And don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss our future episodes and even listen to some past ones. This past week one was great.
So from all of us here at the Upside Down Parenting Podcast, we pray your family experiences deep joy, simple moments of connection and peace because of Christ in this season. Merry Christmas and we’ll see you next time.