How the Great Tech Reset Changed Our Family | Ep. 65

Episode 65: Summary & Transcript

Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.

Episode Summary

In this concluding episode of the Tech Reset series, hosts Janel and Matt sit down with Aaron Klemm to reflect on key takeaways from their conversations about raising children in a technology-saturated world. The discussion centers on practical changes each speaker is implementing in their own homes. They also explore themes of parental awareness, modeling healthy tech habits, and the courage to make countercultural choices for family flourishing.

Episode Transcript

Janel Greig (00:00):
Well, over the last past several episodes, we’ve been taking a closer look at what it means to raise kids in a technology saturated world. We’ve talked about why our families may need a tech reset, how to create healthier rhythms and boundaries, and how to develop a biblical worldview of technology. We’ve even talked about what it’s like to grow up with parents who intentionally limited screens. But after all these conversations, we want to end this series by asking a simple question, what are we actually taking away from all of this?

So today, Matt and I are sitting down again with Aaron Klemm to talk about what challenged us, maybe what changed the way we see technology and what we want to do differently in our own homes because of what we’ve learned. Because ultimately, resetting our technology use as a family isn’t just about using less technology, it’s about putting tech back in its proper place so we can make more room for the things that actually matter the most.

(00:56):
So Matt and Aaron, after everything we’ve talked about in this series, which has been wonderful and filled with information, what has changed for you?

Dr. Matt Jones (01:05):
Oh man, thanks for asking. It’s interesting to wrestle with that because the good news is that I’ve been able to do a lot of research on tech prior to these. And so I think the biggest thing was it was several reminders for me and hopefully we’ll be able to think through those. But the biggest thing was at this point, I am being more aware of the amount of time spent. Each week I get a notification, “Here’s how much time you’ve spent on your phone.”

And really as a result, I said, “Okay, phone-wise, it’s going to be an hour or less each week.” And right now for the last three, as a result of some of our recordings and stuff, I’ve been able to track that. One was like one hour and five minutes, but that’s because I was playing words with friends with a friend.

(01:55):
So if I had not done that, I would’ve been under the hour. But just being more aware of and intentional in terms of recognizing what’s the amount of time I’m spending and if it is over a certain limit, making changes.

And I know some folks have to do their work on their phone, but just, all right, if you’re having work on your phone, what would be a reasonable amount beyond that work to show how much time you’re spending to say, wait a minute, maybe I should be spending it somewhere else. How about you, Aaron? As you think about the end of this series, what stood out for you? What’s been a challenge for you?

Aaron Klemm (02:35):
Yeah, I think I’ve had that privilege to be working with the topic of technology and Arlene Pelican’s book, The Great Tech Reset for the last number of months. And so just working through that has just let a lot of thoughts just kind of percolate. And so one in particular is hard to nail down. I’m sure we’ll get to many.

But I like what you were saying about just starting with awareness, Matt. Many of us, I think especially people who are listening to this podcast, I would imagine, have given some degree of thought to what influence does technology have on me or noticed when it’s not had the best influence on me? I think we’ve all had that moment when you’re looking at your phone and then you realize your kid’s been trying to get your attention for the last two minutes and it just feels horrible and you’re like, that’s a normal thing.

(03:22):
It doesn’t make it a good thing. It’s a normal thing. So we’ve all had that no matter how intentional we are about it. It’s just that’s how pervasive technology is. And so just the awareness, if my kid grows up to use technology just like me, what am I going to feel? How is that going to feel? And that just helps me think about not just like your example, Matt.

Yeah, you might be doing work on your phone, but it’s like, well, do you have to do work on your phone or could you do it in a place on a computer that changes the way your kids could see you engaging with it? You’re purposely making that. I think a lot of us, we can talk more about this because it’s a long thread, but a lot of us have just natural presets or habits we’ve just gotten into that come in as assumptions or assertions about how we are or should use technology.

(04:09):
And that breaking that down through awareness I think is one of the most helpful things that’s just come to my mind a lot related to technology of like, oh man, what am I really doing and is it a conscious choice or has it just devolved or developed over time and do I want to change that? Maybe it’s okay for it to stay the same, but maybe it’s not.

Dr. Matt Jones (04:31):
And believe me, mamas and dads, your kids will do things that you do. I mean, even though Aaron has five and under, he had great insight there to say, listen, I am modeling, modeling, modeling and having kids on the older age of life, there’s some things I’m very proud that they follow and a few things that I’m like, ah, come on Matt, you could have done better. Janel, how about you?

Janel Greig (04:58):
Yeah, it’s interesting being in the season of parenting we’re in with the tech information that’s coming out now. I think in reflecting on what we’ve covered in this series, I feel like we were really pushed into, with our kids, devices because of COVID. It was, well, you’ve got a first grader, a third grader, and a fifth grader, but guess what? They either need a laptop at home or an iPad so that they can do online school.

And so there’s been some reflection from me, what would it have looked like if we weren’t… And I’m forced we made the decision, I’m not saying that, but what if that hadn’t been such a push? And I think I would do it differently based on that. However, that was what we were working with. So looking back and seeing that push, but even seeing now five, six years later, the drawback from tech, that definitely moved our world forward, the devices, the access.

(05:56):
But we’re definitely in a place in the world now where the data is out there about the effects and how detrimental it is. And I think even, and we’ve talked about this before a little bit, Matt, but even in education, we’re seeing schools say, oh yeah, maybe everybody has a device, but we’re actually going back to handwriting. Or I think two or three years ago, our school finally put a cell phone policy in place and then quickly the next year it was nope, no cell phones because of how detrimental. So the awareness is definitely there, which I’m grateful for.

So for me, it’s been a lot of reflecting what could we have done different if we had had the information we’d had? I’m with you though, Matt. It’s been very reflective personally for me. And I think Aaron, you referenced the question that Arlene asks, “Would you be happy if your kids were using tech the way that you use it?” And that’s been something I hear consistently in my brain when I pick up my phone. So that’s been a check for me personally.

Aaron Klemm (06:56):
Yeah.

Dr. Matt Jones (06:57):
Well, I think with the things that we’ve been talking about, it’s been really cool to, hopefully this encourages parents to be more bold in terms of, listen, we’re recognizing there’s research out there. You can be bold and say, listen, you don’t need this until you’re this age.

(07:14):
Or we can shut this down from this time in the evening till that. And I’m hoping that as parents have listened and engaged and thought about their tech use, they’re more bold to say, “I’m not alone in wanting to limit it. It is okay to say no, and it actually may produce a healthier family.”

And so that’s one of the things I’m really hoping, because as I’ve been listening to Arlene and listening to you all and listening to Ryan, I’ve actually become more bold in the classroom and hopefully I’m doing it in a relatively humble way to say, “Listen, folks, the phone is not where relationship happens. Relationship happens when we’re sitting around the table talking to one another and not sitting around the table and texting one another.” And so I’m hoping for boldness as we think about this because it’s tough to be different as a parent.

(08:11):
My wife and I, people would say, “You guys are so different. Why do you do things the way you do them?” Well, it was not always easy because at times we felt alone. Aaron, have you guys felt alone at all in terms of how you’re doing technology with parents and has this series helped at all with that?

Aaron Klemm (08:29):
Yeah. Well, I think the thing that is coming to mind the whole time you were saying that and relates to I think a lot of the feelings that we sometimes have is John Stonestreet from the Colson Center talks about this often related to cultural issues of the encouragement to just be weird as Christians in culture.That’s okay to be weird. And I think this is one of those areas where it’s okay to be weird. And so my wife and I…

Dr. Matt Jones (08:56):
We’re upside down here. Maybe.

Aaron Klemm (09:00):
There’s a certain way that’s opposed to the way that other people are doing things just because, and there’s a lot of pressure to that. There’s a lot of purpose you have to put to even notice that as we talked about awareness. But yeah, my wife and I have already noticed it with young kids. We have zero to five and we have kids who are family friends who have a tablet or even just for the normal uses of like, “Oh, we’re going to go on a road trip.”

We don’t have any tablets. When we go, my family lives 15 hours away. Our three toddlers are just entertaining themselves in the van. I love that. And it’s weird. I mean, most people are like, “Oh, that’s the perfect time.” And I even agree, if we had a tablet, I would say that’s a great time to just utilize that.

(09:48):
And yet that’s not a reason to get one because we know if we get it for the road trip, then it gets used at the doctor’s office and then it gets used in this way and then it gets used in that way. And we’re just bringing it into our lives. And so we want to stay in the driver’s seat. As you said, Janelle, in the intro, the goal here is to put tech in its proper place. And the more we stay in the driver’s seat, the less technology moves into control.

And that is weird. It is different. We have a very great community who has a lot of comparable beliefs that they’re living in a lot of similar ways, disciplines similarly, are raising with the same values. And yet we still notice moments where we’re like, oh, we’re a little bit on the outside and we’re okay with that.

(10:30):
And it’s not to throw stones at friends or anything like that. Every family’s making specific decisions for many, many different reasons that we don’t need to get into. But for us, this is what we want to do and this is why we’re going to do it that way. And so let’s be convicted on that.

And this series and all the work on technology, the continued research that’s coming out, all that just continually reinforces. I would say three months ago, my wife and I may have said, “Yeah, maybe by 16, we’re open to a phone by 16. That sounds fine.” Or maybe a dumb phone.

And we’re a lot more just like, “Nope, let’s just kick it out as far as we can.” Now, we don’t know where we’ll be 10, 12 years from now when our kids are getting closer to that. Who knows what the world will look like and what AI tools there will be and all this sort of stuff. But what are the values we have now that help us make those decisions then is a big part of it.

Janel Greig (11:20):
Yeah, I think that point is great, Aaron. I think things do change really quickly too. But again, pointing back to what is God calling us to do as parents, pointing them to him. And so how can we best do that? Is this tech interfering with the focus of the Lord or is it not? So I think that’s great.

I’m curious, AI is something we’ve talked about, the biblical worldview. Has this series been eye-opening about AI or has your biblical worldview been more developed with regards to AI over this time? What are your thoughts on that and the use of it? Should Christians use it, right?

Dr. Matt Jones (11:59):
Great question. And I think it’s an unavoidable tool out there. What I try to tell my students is that AI has some great value and it is a great tool that is negatively affecting our ability to think for ourselves. And so if we’re using it as a tool and still engaging our minds and thinking about components of that, I think it’s okay because there’s some great stuff with AI.

I was watching a commercial that just came out on the glasses. I forget what they’re called, but it’s a blind guy with these, I think they’re meta glasses, and he’s able to interact with his world in a whole new way because of the AI improvements with these glasses. And I’m just like, man, what a redemptive use of that technology to help a blind guy be able to read. And I actually came to tears a little bit. And so saying, okay, I know, I know. And listen, tears are a big deal for me, even if it’s a commercial. All right.

Janel Greig (13:06):
They know your felt needs, Matt.

Dr. Matt Jones (13:08):
I know. I couldn’t believe it because I really do think the gospel is about redeeming and restoring relationship. And here’s a tool that AI has made possible with the use of human creativity to help a guy interact with his world even more. Now again, that could be misused, but my goodness, what an incredible gift. So AI makes us think about how we should use it and appropriate it.

And the reality is I would rather, with a lot of things, and I think you guys have heard me say this, I would rather my kids have to deal with some of these things in the protection of my home instead of going off to college and just being exposed to it and not knowing how to navigate it.

And so that’s been really helpful for me as we’ve been thinking about this to say, all right, there is some value in exposure under the confines of the home, and I’m using confines well for the good of our kids to navigate this. How about you, Janel? I mean, what’s really stood out for AI with you?

Janel Greig (14:16):
AI has come so far so fast. It boggles my mind. The deep fakes that are out there now kids can create… I mean, we’ve had issues at school, kids creating videos that aren’t real of teachers, and it truly boggles my mind how fast it’s come. Even two years ago, those videos were, you could tell, but now there’s a little bit of a pause.

So I do think there is an equipping. It is a tool. Like you say, there’s some amazing stuff coming through the use of AI, but it’s an equipping with our kids. Having those conversations, is it a tool or is it taking control of us? Pointing it back to the biblical worldview. God calls us to use our minds. Are you using your mind if you are just plugging everything into AI, you’re losing the functions and depending on that and your critical thinking and your ability, that’s being proven too.

(15:06):
The data’s there in that. So I think AI is something that I do think has useful purpose, but I think it’s approaching it through the lens of a biblical worldview with let’s use it as a tool, but let’s not let it use us. Aaron, I’d be super curious with you, with kids that probably aren’t using AI. I mean, maybe they’ve watched a video or something. What’s your approach going to look like? It could change in a year, but right now.

Aaron Klemm (15:34):
Yeah, I think it’s changing so fast. It’s hard to know exactly how I’ll engage with it as a parent in terms of how my kids will engage with it. Right now, the easiest thing to do is just they don’t even know it exists. They don’t know what it is. The closest they get, my kids will ask a question and I’ll say, let’s look that up together and we’re learning together.

And I might be using an AI tool of some kind, but in terms of their engagement with it, it’s easy to just keep that separate. I do agree there’s a lot of wisdom that needs to go into it, as it starts to come to them. You guys have talked a lot about it being a tool. I think the most important thing as we’re thinking about it as a tool is, tools have values built into them.

(16:19):
And so it’s so critical that we remember that as we’re engaged with it. It’s not just, oh, I either can use it good or I can use it bad. I better use it good. It’s like, no, even using it, even with the right, oh, I’m trying to do the best thing, is going to form and shape you in particular ways. I think this is both very deeply tied to AI, but also much bigger than AI. The conclusion that technology is always trying to make our life easier. It’s trying to reduce inconvenience, which it’s trying to make life more convenient.

And there’s a lot of ways that’s fantastic. I mentioned, I have a newborn at home. We have food delivered. Thank you technology, that is possible. What a fantastic use of it at this stage in our life. And so that’s so helpful. But I need to remember that there is actually something formational in something as simple as grocery shopping that, oh, I create a discipline by walking through every aisle and not just buying everything I see.

(17:24):
That’s a discipline building skill. Or I’m going to go and I’m going to take my boys and I’m going to help them learn how to engage in public and say thank you when somebody holds the door. And those are formational things. And when I get the food delivered, I’m losing all that opportunity. Now, that’s okay. I’m confident that that’s okay, but if it’s not okay, if I never acknowledge that that’s happening.

Andy Crouch has a fantastic book called The Life We’re Looking For, where he talks about this concept that technology is taking away those formational opportunities. That’s okay. It’s far more formational to ride a horse across the country. If you’re going to mature as a person, you’re going to get stronger, you’re going to learn skills you never thought if you ride a horse across the country, that’d be an amazing thing to accomplish compared to getting on a plane and flying across the country.

(18:15):
Pretty convenient, pretty easy, not a lot of bodily force strength, maybe some money you have to sacrifice, of course, sure. But if we don’t recognize the difference in the formational gap between those two activities, we lose a lot.

And so it’s just acknowledging when I have AI draft that really thorny email that I’m afraid to send and offend somebody and it can do it pretty well, maybe that’s okay. Maybe though that it’s actually really important that I do that and I’m going to actually learn how to walk through a difficult situation a whole lot better than if I farm out that ability to write that email.

So I’m not going to say, I don’t know. I’m right in the middle of processing, should I write that email or should I not? I’m not sure, but I do really want to be purposeful in acknowledging that especially as I teach my kids to engage with it, you are missing a formational opportunity if you choose this way and not this way. And so that has to be substituted. And I think I’ll wrap up my rant with this. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

Dr. Matt Jones (19:19):
No, I thought you were done, so go ahead.

Aaron Klemm (19:22):
No, it’s all right. I think that just ties into the whole technology conversation of when we’re saying no to technology in our homes, when we’re resetting, when we’re fasting, when we’re putting limits on things, we’re saying no to convenience. And that’s why it’s hard.

For the parents who are like, “But this is so hard. I have all these reasons why it’s hard.” I agree. And that’s a conscious thing we have to do, and we’re saying it’s worth it. That’s the whole impetus behind resetting and putting limits on phones. It’s like that inconvenience is actually worth it. And so maybe with the flight and the horse example, it might not be worth it, but maybe.

Janel Greig (19:57):
I like that example.

Aaron Klemm (19:58):
In the phone for the 13-year-old, it might be worth it.

Dr. Matt Jones (20:01):
Well, and the point in terms of bypassing formation is I think a really important point that you’re making because whenever I’ve been thinking about this series, it says, “Matt, what will I do with all the research?” And what’s interesting is 2010, I think that was the big date for the introduction of the phone. And 16 years later, we just have so much evidence of, “Hey, here are things to think about when it comes to the research.” We’re in the midst of AI where we have very little research.

And so I’m just wondering what the research will be in 15 years, because now that we have this information and Arlene Pelicane can write this great book, and Ryan Pauley can come on and talk about the effect of technology and all these other components 15 years later, it just makes me say, “All right, can I be mature to do something with the research now and then recognize maybe just maybe I went all in on having a phone 15 years ago, maybe just maybe I’ve got to rethink whether or not or the extent to what I’ll go in on AI.”

Because in 15 years I may be saying, wow, I maybe should not have engaged in the way that I did because it bypassed some of the formation that I needed, some of the formation my kids needed, some of the formation that maybe even Lord willing, my grandkids are going to need. And so I think that formation component I think is so important, not Ryan, Aaron, so thank you for that.

Janel Greig (21:37):
Don’t you think that points back to the processing and having that posture of humility with our kids too? I mean, just setting rules for them, setting boundaries, saying you can’t do it. If we’ve made a mistake in something to come alongside and say, you know what, mom and dad, maybe we didn’t have the information we needed, maybe we have new information now, but we’re having a reset together and to come alongside, and Arlene talked about how to do that if you feel like, man, it’s out of control and I don’t even know where to start and put the limits.

But as parents, we can come alongside with our kids. It’s just like learning the Christian worldview with them or learning apologetics with them. It’s doing it together and showing them, yeah, of course we’re not perfect, but we’re able to step into a posture of humility and say, Hey, let’s reset together.

Dr. Matt Jones (22:21):
Yeah, that’s a really good point. Aaron, do you have anything to add in terms of making sure there’s something we need to address as we finish out this series?

Aaron Klemm (22:31):
Yeah, I think it can be when we engage with these really big topics like technology, it can be tempting to think it as it’s out there, I have to develop a whole new way of thinking to engage with this kind of behemoth of information and challenge and difficulty and nuance and inner complexity of school and sports and all. Technology touches so much.

And so we just feel like, oh, it’s so overwhelming to take that on. I think it’s important to remember that technology, although there’s a lot of things we should learn and understand about it, we don’t always have to think about it as this wholly different issue because just like with many things in life and many things in parenting, one of the most important things with technology is recognizing that true freedom has limits.

And so we limit technology, whether it’s an actual device, whether it’s time, whether it’s the way we use it, we limit it on purpose for the goal of freedom.

(23:27):
And in the same way we limit so much of our lives for the purpose of true freedom. And I’m talking about biblical freedom where we’re truly living in accordance with God’s design, we’re living in a way that helps us flourish. That requires limits.

And so that’s not that much different in technology than it is in relationships. You can’t just stay out all night long. Your body needs to sleep. That’s an important example. Every parent would say, “Oh, you need that limit. You have limits. You have to sleep.” Okay, everybody agrees with that.

Why is it that it’s so sticky, then, when we get to an area like technology? Well, it’s because it’s so interlaced in our lives, and so that’s understandable. But get back to some of those fundamentals. Don’t make it bigger than it has to be. Try things, be willing to fail, try the reset, try the tech fast, whatever it might be, and it doesn’t work.

(24:18):
And it’s restart and try again and learn and ask your kids questions and be humble, like you said, Janel, of, “Hey, we don’t know what we’re doing. We’re learning this right alongside you. That’s okay. Being honest with your kids.” There’s all kinds of ways that we can just reduce the grip technology has on us, both in how infiltrated in our lives, but also in the way that it just overwhelms us as this big, scary thing. It’s like you give it too much permission when you make it that big scary thing. And so reduce that down to the fundamentals and just one step at a time.

Dr. Matt Jones (24:50):
That’s a great point. Janel, anything you want to add before I close this out on this great series?

Janel Greig (24:56):
No, I think all great points, great takeaways. Listeners, if you’ve listened to just this one, there’s five more to go back and listen to. So take it all in. It’s great content.

Dr. Matt Jones (25:06):
I agree. Hopefully you can catch up on this series if you are just jumping in on the first time. But this series, I hope, has encouraged you to think a little differently about the role technology plays in your home. And remember, tech reset doesn’t have to mean getting everything right overnight. As Aaron just eloquently pointed out, it can start with one intentional change that helps put technology back in its proper place.

Ultimately, this isn’t just about screen time, smartphones, or social media or video games. It’s about discipleship. We want to raise kids who love God, love others, and make disciples, and as a result, have the wisdom to use technology without letting it master them.

So if you’re ready to start your own Tech Reset, be sure to order your free copy of Summit’s newest parenting resource, The Great Tech Reset: Reclaiming Real Life for Christian Families by Arlene Pellicane.

(26:00):
You can get your copy today at techresetbook.com. That is techresetbook.com. See, I said it twice. I challenge you all at home to read it three times or more without screwing it up. So thank you for joining us today and throughout this special series and for listening to the Upside Down Parenting Podcast. Hopefully we’ll see you next time. God bless.