Today, we’re talking about a topic that can feel heavy, confusing, and even scary for parents: how to walk alongside your child who is questioning their faith or wrestling with doubt. Now is the perfect time to equip ourselves with understanding, patience, and the right tools—because when our kids struggle with faith, what they often need most is not answers, but a safe space to explore their questions.
We’re honored to welcome Jon Noyes to the podcast. Jon is a seasoned speaker, apologist, and writer who has spent years helping families navigate difficult conversations about faith, doubt, and belief. With a blend of practical wisdom, empathy, and encouragement, he offers parents a steady, hope-filled approach to a deeply sensitive journey.
In this episode, we explore how to respond with grace, maintain trust and connection, and engage these conversations without fear or defensiveness. Whether your child is a teen, a young adult, or somewhere in between, this discussion is designed to equip you to walk alongside them with love, empathy, and hope. If you’ve ever wondered how to stay connected when beliefs are being questioned, this episode is for you.
Have a question for us? Email podcast@summit.org—your question may be featured in an upcoming Q&A!
Episode 29: Summary & Transcript
Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Episode Summary
This episode of the Upside Down Parenting Podcast features host Janel Greig interviewing Jon Noyes, a seasoned speaker, apologist, and writer who helps guide people through challenging conversations about faith, doubt, and belief. The discussion centers on how parents can walk alongside their children who are questioning their faith or wrestling with doubt, emphasizing that kids often need safe spaces to explore questions rather than just theological answers. Key topics include Jon’s personal journey from atheism to Christianity through his own questioning process, the distinction between healthy doubt (which he encourages) versus deconstruction, and practical advice for maintaining trust and connection during seasons of doubt. Jon emphasizes that parents should provide unconditional love regardless of their child’s certainty and trust in God’s sovereignty over salvation.
Episode Transcript
Janel Greig (00:00):
Well, welcome back to the Upside Down Parenting Podcast. I’m your host, Janel Greig, and as we step into a new year, we’re talking about a topic that can feel heavy, confusing, and even scary for parents: how to walk alongside your child who is questioning their faith or wrestling with doubt. A new year reset is the perfect time to equip ourselves with understanding, patience, and the right tools because when our kids struggle with faith, what they often need most is not answers, but a safe space to explore those questions.
We are honored to have Jon Noyes join us today. John is a seasoned speaker, apologist, and writer with years of experience guiding people through challenging conversations about faith, doubt and belief. He brings practical insights, empathy, and encouragement for parents navigating this sensitive and important journey.
In this episode, we’ll talk about how to respond with grace, how to maintain trust and connection, and practical ways to navigate conversations without fear or defensiveness, whether your child’s a teen, a young adult, or somewhere in between. This discussion is about equipping you to walk alongside them with love, empathy, and hope. So settle in and let’s dive into this crucial topic. Welcome to the show, Jon.
Jon Noyes (01:16):
Well, thanks for having me, Janel, Matt. It’s so good to be with you guys. I love what you just said about the focus of, this is a time when I think parents are kind of nervous about what they’re getting into because the times are changing, and especially what you said about the kids, the students not always needing necessarily, they don’t always need the theologically robust answer. They just need the space to be able to ask the questions, which is so good.
Dr. Matt Jones (01:42):
And that’s one of the things I love about Summit, and I know you’re a big fan of Summit and serve there, but Summit’s not afraid to ask questions. And excuse me, they’re not afraid of questions. They’re not afraid to ask them either, but they’re not afraid of questions. And we want you guys as parents to not be afraid of the questions your students, excuse me, your children have. So it’s good to have you. And I am a little confused about how empathy and wearing a Boston Red Sox hat goes together, but maybe we can explore that today, Jon.
Jon Noyes (02:14):
I could wear this. Would this hat be better? I have this one. Is that better for you?
Janel Greig (02:21):
Jon’s always prepared.
Jon Noyes (02:23):
I wish I had all of them down here. I just keep switching on and off with every question.
Janel Greig (02:30):
Yeah, that’s great.
Jon Noyes (02:30):
Yeah, it’s good to be with you guys.
Janel Greig (02:32):
Let’s jump in. Jon, this topic of doubt and questioning the faith somewhat relates to your own journey and your story. And I’ve been blessed to hear you share that many times, but you used to be an atheist, so what I was was it that led you to examine Christianity and eventually conclude that Jesus is who he says he is.
Jon Noyes (02:52):
Good question. I think what’s really interesting, couched kind of in the way that we’ve introduced this episode, is for me, doubting actually led me to God in a different type of way. I was trying to cause doubts in the minds of the people that I knew, the Christians, especially specifically my girlfriend at the time, my now wife. I was led to the foot of the cross because I started digging into the worldview of Christianity in order to disprove it.
And what I ended up doing is finding out Christianity offers me better answers to the way the world really is. It gives me a better reason for reality, then did my naturalism. The idea that everything is the product of a purely physical process, or everything exists in the physical realm. That’s what I was as an atheist. I was a naturalist.
So it’s interesting trying to cause doubts in the minds of believers around me ended up bringing me right to the foot of the cross where Jesus introduced himself to me. So yeah, that’s how I ended up there. It’s through asking questions, but just from the other side, which is really interesting.
Dr. Matt Jones (04:05):
That is interesting. And it reminds me of my child, my oldest, whenever she was 11, she came to me and she goes, dad, I don’t know if I’m a Christian because I actually believe this stuff or this is what I’ve grown up with. And it really gave us an opportunity to explore what she believed and why and some of the doubts that she was having.
And so I bring her up because you work with a ton of Gen Z and Alpha and this writing Z Generation, and I’ve seen you speak with them and connect with them is so awesome to see. But I wanted to ask two questions here. Are you seeing an increase or decrease in doubting the Christian faith? And then whichever answer you go with there, why do you think that is?
Jon Noyes (04:44):
Great. Oh my gosh. First, can I just preface this by saying for those of you who are watching or listening and whatnot, I’m in this battle with you. I’ve got four kids, my oldest is 15, my youngest just turned nine, so I’ve got a sophomore down to a third grader. And so I am walking the road that a lot of you guys are walking. So this isn’t just somebody who’s either raised my kids and now they’re off and doing really, really well. It’s also not somebody that’s coming with no experience.
And as far as the doubting, what’s been coming, the two new generations, gen Z, gen Alpha, what’s really, I’m seeing more questions but not necessarily doubts or rebellion, right? I’m seeing a lot of young people are, they’re not rejecting Christianity outright, where maybe even as little as when I started this at Stand, the reason when I became a full part-time pastor, it was probably about between 10 and 15 years ago, I don’t remember.
(05:49):
And before that I worked at a law firm. And so I’ve seen even in that short amount of time within the last 15 years, things shift and change where for me as an atheist, I just rejected God outright. And I’m not seeing that at all. We find ourselves at a really interesting time where the two youngest generations, Z and Alpha, they’re asking lots of questions and they’re not wanting to be entertained anymore. I feel like we went through a period of consumerism almost where I felt like the church was trying to compete with Netflix and HBO and Twitter and YouTube and stuff.
And now I feel like these students, even as young as middle school or even younger, they just want to be told the truth, which is a fantastic place for us to be because as Christians, we have the truth. So all we have to do is tell them the truth, even if that truth is, I don’t know, and then you go find an answer of course. But that’s what I’m seeing. So I think the real issue isn’t necessarily doubt. It’s whether the church has actually taught us as their elders to think critically about Christianity so that we can offer the answers to the questions that they’re actually asking. Does that make sense? I don’t know if it does. I hope it does.
Dr. Matt Jones (07:06):
No, I think it’s great. And I wanted to ask a follow-up, Janel. What do you find is the most thought provoking question this generation’s asking?
Jon Noyes (07:15):
Oh, great question. And for me it’s so clear: “Who am I?” Okay. I think the majority of the issues that we are seeing in our culture and society have to do with identity. And what story of reality are we going to allow to inform ourselves, us as to who we are? Are we going to chase the story of naturalism like I was chasing, that were just a random quantification of molecules that were meat suits in motion, highly evolved primates?
Or are we going to chase the story of Christianity that tells us that we’re fearfully, wonderfully made, that we’re knit together in a mother’s womb that we’re known not just by each other, our family or friends, classmates, but we’re actually known by the living God and that he loves us so much that he gave his only son for us? Or are we going to be informed by the story of reality of a different worldview, Marxism or Buddhism or whatnot?
And so I think all of these questions, the major issues that are causing some of the major questions in our society, I think are steeped in who am I? And if we can answer that, I think we really get at the foundation of a lot of what we’re seeing in the culture. That’s a great question. That wasn’t on your list. You sent me, I don’t think it was, so maybe I missed it.
Janel Greig (08:31):
Matt’s prone to that.
Dr. Matt Jones (08:34):
Yeah, I like throwing out some stuff we haven’t planned. Let me know if you need a hug at the end of this.
Jon Noyes (08:41):
I might.
Janel Greig (08:44):
Jon, one of the things before we step into maybe more questions specifically for the parents to hear, for our listeners, defining deconstruction and doubt, there’s some differences in the approach. Some would say deconstruction is the dismantling of one’s faith, and it always ends up in rejecting Christianity. Some would say deconstruction is beneficial because it’s kind of breaking it down and then building it back up. Would you, and maybe from what you’re working on with the students, how do you define deconstruction versus doubt? Or is it the same?
Jon Noyes (09:15):
That is a really great question. I’m not sure I like the term deconstructing because I think it’s easy for us if you’re philosophically in mind, at least you get it confused with deconstructionism or larger ism that’s out there. I think there’s overlap to them. But I think, okay, so generally speaking, I think of the culture right now when somebody says they’re deconstructing, it has a negative kind of walking away from connotation. I don’t mean negative, it’s bad.
It’s just like, I mean, I deconstructed out of my atheism, right? Because what I did is I evaluated my system of beliefs, I compared them to the world around me, and I realized they didn’t fit. So I deconstructed that. So I think that’s what we mean when we say deconstruction. It’s a walking away from now, doubt plays a huge part in that.
(10:10):
I think deconstructing something should go slow if we’re going to do it. It should be intentional and slow. Doubting is different. I think doubting is something that’s actually, I think a positive thing in my mind. I could be different. I don’t want to superimpose these definitions on top of everybody who’s listening to you, but I teach my kids to doubt, meaning ask questions.
Christianity, one of the things that separates it, that sets it apart from every, well, not every other world, but certainly every other monotheistic religion is we’re told to doubt test all things hold fast to that, which is true, right? I mean, do you guys remember John, right? That John the Baptizer is in prison and he’s sitting there and what’s he doing when he’s in prison? He’s doubting. He sends some guys to Jesus and says, hey, could you tell us, are you really the guy?
(11:03):
Because homie’s about to lose his head and he just wants to make sure he is going to lose his head for a reason. The reason he thinks, and that’s a doubt. Or Thomas, Thomas is like, whatever, dude, we had a good run for three years. It was cool, but he’s gone. Jesus is gone. And then I’m not going to listen. I understand that you think you saw him. I’m not going to believe you until I see him myself. And I want to not only see him, but I want to touch him. And sure enough, Jesus comes back.
So I think doubting is actually a central part of our story because God’s not trying to hide anything from us. So in this, so if we’re going to deconstruct, I think deconstruction of this value in it, if we’re deconstructing something that needs to be deconstructed, taken apart, but I think we need to do that slowly in the process of doubting can do that if we need to, but we should be also doubting.
(11:50):
Well, for example, we should be doubting in community, right? Don’t doubt by yourself or on YouTube. It’s not going to work out well. It just isn’t right. Doubt well in community, doubt with people that you can trust, ask the questions, ask whatever. You’re, if you’re struggling with something as a parent, for example, okay, we’re talking to parents, not students here with my kids, I’m constantly reminding them, hey, whatever questions you guys have, nothing’s off the table.
And I’m supposed to be the guy that has all the answers because heck, I’m a professional Christian, right? I’m a professional Christian apologist or whatever that means, right? I’m just letting you know as you ask questions, I might not have the answers, but we can find them together. And so you provide space for your student to doubt, and I’d say encourage it because again, gone are the days where I feel like we’re coming out of a time where the church didn’t do well, helping people doubt because they were fearful. So don’t ask that question. Oh, we don’t ask that question. Well, no, ask that question, chase it. And it all is foundation.
This will be the last thing I say about this. But we can go with confidence because guess what? I don’t want to believe this stuff if it’s not true. So that means if my kids doubting leads us to difficult answers, and it’s true, that’s where I want to end up regardless, okay? Because this worldview stuff, this Christian thing is actually costly.
(13:26):
My story, I didn’t hit rock bottom as an atheist by societal standards and my personal standards. I was doing awesome. I had a great job at a great law firm. I was getting the girl I was living truly my best life. Now, it would’ve been so much easier for me just to continue on, but we don’t seek pleasure like that for our life’s meaning. We need to seek truth. So even if that truth is difficult for us, so we don’t need to be scared, is what I’m saying. You probably got more than you’re asked for there.
Dr. Matt Jones (13:55):
So Jon, I really appreciate you saying that. And it reminded me of Deuteronomy 29:29, where it says, the secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of the law. And so there are some things that God reveals, and there are other things where he’s an infinite deity, which we’re grateful for and we’re finite beings who have a lack of understanding in some of these areas.
But the things that he wants revealed, man, we need to give our kids the freedom to ask no matter what age they are and to engage. And with the Matthew 11 thing, what I love about that story is when he asks, are you the Messiah? Jesus doesn’t give him a yes or no. He says, here’s the evidence. What are you going to do with it? And that’s something I think we at Summit do a really good job of. And when I’ve heard you speak, you say, you know what? There are answers, but I want you to engage with the evidence. So I really appreciate your example there and challenging our parents with that.
Janel Greig (14:58):
For sure. Yeah.
Jon Noyes (14:59):
Thanks, Matt.
Janel Greig (15:00):
Yeah, I also think those examples, the way Jesus approached it is one, as a parent, and I think again, Summit does a beautiful job of this here. It’s approaching not in a shameful way, but it’s an invitational way to ask the questions. But Jon, what are some signs a parent might notice as we’re talking about approaching this that might indicate their kiddo is in fact questioning or doubting the faith?
Jon Noyes (15:28):
Some signs that their kids question it.
Janel Greig (15:31):
Yeah.
Jon Noyes (15:32):
Maybe if you sense a shift in their behavior around you. So a shift from a curiosity to silence or from a trust in to a cynicism in, I’m just speaking from my experience, I don’t know if this is going to be descriptive of everybody’s kid. It’s certainly not a prescription here, but a withdrawing, maybe, from spiritual practices that once they engaged in like, okay, I’m trying to think of one of my daughters. We didn’t even teach her this. We were just blessed by it. She just used to wake up early and read her Bible, I mean like 6:30 in the morning early before school to read her Bible. I’m like, what are you doing?
Dr. Matt Jones (16:11):
Sounds like you, Janel.
Jon Noyes (16:13):
Yeah, I love it. It’s just so quiet. Then she’s like, I can just do it. And all of a sudden that kind of stopped. So then I moved towards her and I just asked her about it. But notice to your question is I notice a shift in a kind of a behavior where this was a spiritual practice that shifted if they’re starting to ask the how to why questions, not just the what questions.
So now instead of asking what does the Bible say about this? Or what does God say about judgment? They’re starting to ask the question, why does God judge? I think what we’re starting to see is there’s an evolution, if you will, a growth that’s happening. And it’s exciting. So don’t be scared, but these are, I think, some of the signs that you might get if your students are starting to question or doubt.
(17:08):
And so you should hear these things not as a, you don’t want to be fearful, but they are signals, and they’re also, keep in mind, they’re signals. This is so good. I should write a book. They’re signals, but they’re not symptoms. Signals. But not symptoms. So what I’m saying is that just because your kid’s asking questions or their practices are changed, just because Phoebe stopped reading her Bible at 6:30 in the morning, didn’t mean she’s spiraling out of Christianity. It just meant that she wanted to sleep in because she’s now 14, not 8. You know what I mean? So keep that in mind. That’s really good. These are signals of something, not necessarily symptoms of something.
Janel Greig (17:51):
Yeah, that’s great.
Dr. Matt Jones (17:51):
That’s great.
Janel Greig (17:52):
That’s great. I really like that.
Dr. Matt Jones (17:52):
Well, we have what we call a speed round every once in a while, Jon, and we like to ask short questions in hopes to get short answers to see what you come up with. All right. Good luck. And so first of all, I don’t know if this hat gives it away, but favorite sport, not team. We know what team it is. What’s your favorite sport?
Jon Noyes (18:14):
My favorite sport is soccer.
Dr. Matt Jones (18:16):
Oh, really? Okay. Yeah, I did not know that.
Jon Noyes (18:18):
And I have tickets to the World Cup. I can’t wait.
Dr. Matt Jones (18:20):
Oh, that’s awesome. All right. Favorite vacation spot?
Jon Noyes (18:24):
Oh, Hawaii.
Dr. Matt Jones (18:25):
Hawaii. So if I were to say beach or mountain, we’ve got the answer there. Okay.
Jon Noyes (18:29):
Good.
Dr. Matt Jones (18:30):
What about number one cause of doubt?
Jon Noyes (18:38):
Wow. So it’s going to be, there’s two. I know it’s supposed to be short.
Dr. Matt Jones (18:46):
That’s all right.
Jon Noyes (18:46):
Problem of pain. Problem of pain and suffering, for sure. There’s a reason why it’s been around forever and there’s good answers to it. I also think the problem with pain and suffering is one of the best arguments for the existence of God.
Dr. Matt Jones (18:58):
Agree.
Jon Noyes (18:58):
It’s also just being honest and transparent with you guys. What causes me the most pause is sometimes the lack of forward progression or sanctification would be the fancy term in my own life.
Dr. Matt Jones (19:13):
Okay.
Jon Noyes (19:14):
Great.
Dr. Matt Jones (19:14):
Thanks. Thanks for sharing that. Alright. One doctrine we can’t live without as Christians.
Jon Noyes (19:20):
Oh, saved by grace alone. Faith alone in Christ alone.
Dr. Matt Jones (19:25):
Okay.
Jon Noyes (19:25):
The doctrine of grace. Yeah.
Dr. Matt Jones (19:27):
And what would you rather have: a child deconstructing or doubting? I think I know the answer to that based on what you’ve said so far.
Jon Noyes (19:33):
Yeah, doubting.
Dr. Matt Jones (19:34):
All right. And then favorite book to recommend to parents to reconstruct or deal with doubt if that has been occurring with your kids, or maybe we’re giving you two book ideas in one podcast.
Jon Noyes (19:48):
Yeah, no, this has been written about really well by my colleagues Tim Barnett and Alisa Childers in their book on doubt, which is escaping me. The title of it is, I’m going to look it up real quick. It’s important. Barnett, doubt. Let’s see if that comes up. If not, oh, well, yeah, it’s not. Anyways, their book on doubt, Tim Barnett, who’s Red Pen Logic, or Alisa Childers, they both, they co-authored the book on doubt, and it’s phenomenal.
Dr. Matt Jones (20:18):
Great. Janel, I’ll look that up while you’re asking Jon the next question.
Janel Greig (20:23):
I’ve got you.
Dr. Matt Jones (20:24):
Alright.
Janel Greig (20:26):
The Deconstruction of Christianity: What It Is, Why It’s Destructive, and How to Respond.
Jon Noyes (20:33):
Okay, there we go. That’s definitely, that’s a must read.
Janel Greig (20:35):
Yeah. Yeah, that’s fantastic.
Jon Noyes (20:38):
That’s great. Did I make it?
Dr. Matt Jones (20:41):
You did it. I think that was it. You did great. How do you feel after that?
Jon Noyes (20:43):
A little tired, but I think I’ll maintain. Yeah, I think I’ll make it.
Dr. Matt Jones (20:51):
Good deal. Janel?
Janel Greig (20:54):
Let’s enter a little bit into speaking to our parents, our listeners, about engaging with these questions with our kids. So how can parents maintain that trust and connection during seasons of doubt?
Jon Noyes (21:10):
Foundationally, and this is not anything new, I’m sure that most of us who listen to this already know what I’m going to say here, but it’s just to make sure that your kid knows that they’re loved. Your love for them isn’t contingent on how certain they are as Christians. Yeah. I always try to tell my kids I love them every chance I get, and even in the midst of their struggles, whatever it might be, either it’s faith or friends or family, whatever it is, I try to keep that front and center.
So you want to try to, want to protect and nurture the relationship more than try to force them into a belief system. Also, keep in mind guys, I’m going to say something. I’m going to say two things. It’s really difficult, but I’m in this with you. So I’m believing it for myself just as much as I’m recommending it.
(22:06):
God is sovereign and he is over salvation. So God chooses whether or not your kids are going to be saved or not. There’s no words, no prayer, no nothing that I can do to force my children into the kingdom. So what I’m doing and why I say this is because when you have this high view of sovereignty in my life, it allows me a lot of freedom to allow my kids to run because I’m responsible for their raising. I’m told to raise them up in the fear and the admonition of the Lord. I’m given commands on how I’m to raise my children.
So I’m faithful, at least I try to be faithful as much as I can. So I’m responsible in that regard. But as far as their salvation is concerned, I am not responsible for that. So it helps me put things in perspective and not shoulder the burden of when my kid I feel like is wandering, I’m going to let them wander a little bit because I know in the wandering, God’s there just as much as he is when they’re not wandering. He’s always present, he’s omnipresent and God will call them back if God’s going to call them back.
(23:17):
And if not, this is the flip side. This is where it gets difficult. And if not, then guess what? I also know that God doesn’t make mistakes. And so I’m trusting God to make the right decision because I know he’s going to no matter what that means. Now there’s difficult things implied there, but I think when we have that view of a sovereign God that’s over salvation, where it frees us up a little bit more, we don’t shoulder the burden of having to get our kids saved. Instead I’m just able to do life with them and be excited for what they’re excited about. And I’m willing to move into the difficult situations when need be too.
Dr. Matt Jones (23:58):
Yeah, and I appreciate the reminder there that it is the work of the spirit that is going to convict and the children under God’s sovereignty respond. So I appreciate your reminding us of that, Jon. Alright, what’s one question?
Jon Noyes (24:14):
Can I say one thing?
Dr. Matt Jones (24:14):
Yeah, one more thing. Yeah, go ahead. I was going to ask you, what’s one thing you want to leave us with before we have this outro thing?
Jon Noyes (24:21):
Okay, well, I mean, I’ll relate it to the last thing. If this last thing I want to say is I just want to remind everybody that’s listening, Paul in Romans 2, right, Paul in Romans 2, I forget where it is. I don’t have a good memory with that stuff, like the addresses, but he reminds us, he tells us, Paul tells us what leads us to repentance and it’s God’s love, it’s his kindness.
So as we are kind and loving to our children, we are actually helping them. We are helping them towards maturity in Christ and helping them lead them towards repentance and stuff. So as we love our kids enough to let them doubt, I think that you might be surprised at what happens there because they find repentance in the midst of it. I appreciate that. That’s what I wanted to say. I think. I don’t know if that’s a good last word or anything.
Dr. Matt Jones (25:07):
Thank you so much. Janel, do you have anything else to add before I get us out of here?
Janel Greig (25:12):
No, Jon, it was just an absolute pleasure to have you on and I think our listeners will be blessed by your practical experience and input as well as, just, the coming alongside. It’s not that you are somebody speaking at them, you’re in it and you’re not only in it as a speaker and that’s what you do and you see these students as students, but your dad and you’ve got these kids in your home that you and your wife are navigating life with too. So just thanks for being a part of our podcast today.
Jon Noyes (25:40):
Thank you guys so much.
Dr. Matt Jones (25:42):
Thanks for being with us. Jon, I know you’re a busy guy with a lot of demands and it’s just such an honor to have you on. So this is a topic that every parent needs to hear about, and we truly appreciate your wisdom. So if you found today’s episode helpful, share it with another parent who might benefit from a little encouragement this week or having a little encouragement this week.
And don’t forget to subscribe so you won’t miss our future episodes. We’d love to hear from you. You can reach us at podcast@summit.org, that’s podcast@summit.org to share questions or topics you’d like us to cover in the future. Thank you again for tuning in, Janel. We’ll see you next time. Jon, look forward to seeing and connecting with you again.
Jon Noyes (26:24):
Good to be here, guys.