What should your student do after high school—and how can you help without taking over?
In Part 2 of this conversation, Matt Jones and Janel Greig dive into one of the most challenging tensions for parents: guiding your child’s future while still allowing them to take ownership of their decisions. From gap years to college choices, they explore how to support your student with wisdom, not control.
In this episode, you’ll learn how to:
*Ask better questions that help your student think critically about their future
*Introduce options early (starting as soon as sophomore or junior year) without overwhelming them
*Encourage and incentivize wise decisions—without making those decisions for them
*Allow room for failure and growth, looking at how even Jesus gave his disciples space to struggle and learn (Mark 9)
*Have meaningful conversations by asking questions like: What excites you? What concerns you about your options?
Matt and Janel also reflect on their own post-high school experiences—including lessons they wish they had known earlier, like the importance (and pressure) of choosing a major.
Plus, they take a closer look at one powerful option many families overlook: the gap year.
Summit Gap Year is a seven-month Christian program designed to help students pause, reflect, and grow before stepping into adulthood. Instead of rushing into big decisions, students build a strong foundation of faith, character, and purpose through intentional rhythms of prayer, study, work, rest, and community.
If you’re looking for a thoughtful, Christ-centered approach to life after high school, this episode will help you navigate the decision with clarity and confidence.
Learn more about Summit Gap Year by clicking here.
Episode 40: Summary & Transcript
Disclaimer: Please note that this is an automatically generated transcript. Although the transcription is largely accurate, it may be incomplete or inaccurate in some cases due to inaudible passages or transcription errors.
Episode Summary
This episode of the Upside Down Parenting Podcast continues a discussion on evaluating Christian colleges and post-high school options. The hosts emphasize that this is a challenging but important decision involving many factors including finances, location, whether to attend a Christian college, and whether to take a gap year. The conversation highlights Summit Ministries’ gap year program, and Matt notes that Summit gap year students in his classes tend to be more articulate, engaged, and mature, asking insightful questions and serving as campus leaders.
For parents, the episode recommends asking quality questions to understand their child’s motivations and goals, listening intently, and empowering students to make their own decisions while providing appropriate incentives. The discussion concludes with three upside down parenting principles: prioritize character over GPA, empower children to make decisions even if they fail, and require students to pay for a portion of their education to create investment and responsibility.
Episode Transcript
Dr. Matt Jones (00:00):
Welcome to the Upside Down Parenting Podcast. We are excited today because we’re continuing our discussion on how to evaluate Christian colleges and options for the kids that God’s blessed you with. And this is really a follow-up discussion on a few things we still wanted to get to because in our last episode, we reminded parents of the options after high school, factors to consider when looking at a Christian university and maybe some red flags when you’re working with your child to evaluate.
Admittedly, this is a tough but important decision for students and families. There’s so many factors to consider: finances, location, whether or not to go to a Christian college, whether or not to take a gap year. And so there’s a lot of options. We wanted to remind you of a few of those. And we also want to remind you of and highlight the possibility of a Summit gap year, also the impact of a Christian college and a couple upside down parenting pieces to consider that you may not have considered.
(01:01):
And so Janel, it’s great to have you back on the show. Thank you for co-hosting with me. How’s things going with your process with your kids when it comes to this college decision?
Janel Greig (01:12):
Well, I’m waiting till the second episode today, Matt, to finish gleaning from you. It definitely is a process. And so I truly am thankful for your time and expertise and what you’re sharing. And I hope and pray that the content for our parents and our listeners will be helpful to them as they approach. Or maybe they’re already in this and they’re playing catch up a little bit like me because I think we’re a little behind, but very grateful for what you’ve been sharing.
Dr. Matt Jones (01:40):
Well, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity. So my goodness, I think we’re going to talk about gap year, but I was curious, wait, go ahead.
Janel Greig (01:50):
No, I was going to say, can I start off?
Dr. Matt Jones (01:52):
Sure, please.
Janel Greig (01:53):
All right. I’m curious, and just front loading this today, I know you went to a Christian college, and your two kids that are out of the house already are going to a Christian college. But why did you decide on that? And then why did you and Cat encourage your two kids already that have stepped into that to go to a Christian university?
Dr. Matt Jones (02:14):
Yeah. I mean, the really cool thing was it did tie into the major that I was going into. I was going into ministry at the time, going into college. I felt that the Lord, believe the Lord had said, Matt, one of your purposes is to help people get to know the God of the universe. And whatever direction that takes me, we’re continuing to see and learn. I mean, who would’ve known 30 years ago I’d be doing an upside down parenting podcast with such an awesome apologist as you?
But I went to a public high school. My parents, we grew up in Tennessee and it just was extremely important for me to have kind of a Paul moment where after Paul becomes a follower of Jesus, he has like this three year period where he’s getting insight from the Lord and growing in his understanding of this shift from Judaism to Christianity.
(03:11):
And I just found that I needed a different location. I needed to go to get a Christian education because I’d been taught a bunch of other things. And then to be taught things from a Christian worldview was monumental for me. And I found that, not only was that important for me to have some Christian community, because the place that I went for undergrad, they did care about being Christian, not only in their education, but also their community.
There are some schools out there that are Christian in name, but in practice, it really doesn’t come through in the classroom and in the dorm room and in the meeting room with the professors. And so I wanted to make sure I went there and it was monumentous. It was life changing and it set me on a very, very grateful and what’s the word I’m looking for?
(04:06):
Direction or directional pursuit of Christ. And I’m very appreciative of that. And we actually, we had our kids go to public school and there were some similar reasons, but we didn’t require our kids to go to a Christian college. We wanted them to give them the opportunity to decide. And it has been awesome for both of my two older children, my youngest child. She saw the change that a Christian college made in my older two children’s lives, and she’s decided to also go to a Christian college.
And so whether you’ve done homeschool or private school or public school, there is, in my opinion, great value in the opportunity to go and get a Christian higher education degree. I think it can be life changing. However, like we mentioned in the last episode, there are people that are called to go to a non-Christian university. And that’s one of the reasons my wife came to Christ.
(05:07):
She was a non-believer at the University of Delaware, and there were believers there that led her to Christ. And so we’ve always been thankful for that. But if your kid isn’t sure where they want to end up, I do know for a fact that, and I’ll tell you a couple stories after you fill us in, the importance of using a gap year wisely. And I cannot think of a better way if you’re unsure or even if you’re sure if the Lord’s leading you gap year to use Summit Ministries gap year as an approach. Janel, what do you know about Summit Gap year? What can you tell us about that?
Janel Greig (05:46):
Yeah. Well, I wish I had known about it or if it was around when I was looking for something post-high school. So I had the privilege of being on the Summit campus a couple months ago and got to see some of these students in their element during their gap year. And it’s one where truly, as a parent, I would love to see that be a next season for my kiddo after post high school in between.
But Summit Gap Year is a seven month Christian Gap year program that’s designed to help your kid pause, reflect, and grow before taking that next step into adulthood. And it’s, rather than rushing through decisions about college, career, or life, students actually spend the year forming their character, faith, sense of purpose through intentional rhythms of prayer, study, work, rest, and community. And when I was on the campus a couple months ago, it was really cool to hear different people talk about this. They talked about the two different semesters that that seven month period is structured into. There’s the fall semester, and I don’t know if you’ve been to the ranch in Colorado.
Dr. Matt Jones (06:51):
I have not. No.
Janel Greig (06:52):
It sounds amazing. So they actually start on the ranch and they focus on identity, reflection, solitude, spiritual discipline, small groups and adventure. And then for spring semester, they transfer back to the Summit campus in Manitou Springs and they focus on applying faith through vocation. So they actually go out and they’re working in the community doing career shadowing, cultural engagement, evangelism, and continued study and adventure. They live in a family style community sharing meals, chores and doing life together, learning to practice their faith in tangible ways rather than just theoretically.
The program emphasizes faith that is lived, not just learned, helping students understand who they are, who God is, and what it means to live intentionally. In short, Summit Gap year is a formation focused year that prepares students for adulthood spiritually, socially, and personally, giving them space to grow before making long-term life decisions. And for more information, our listeners can all visit summit.org/programs/gap year, and we’ll include this link in the description, but it just seems like a fantastic platform.
(08:06):
One of the other cool things when I was on campus was to see the area where the speakers come and speak to those gap year students. And it’s fairly, the size of it is nice and they know each other, they know the speakers. It’s very personal, relational. So I’m curious, Matt, have you had any students who attended the gap year at the university or have you interacted with graduates of the Summit gap year program?
Dr. Matt Jones (08:33):
Yeah, I’ve had several. I have one in my Old Testament class right now, and he was actually in a New Testament class that I teach. And I just got to say, and again, this is not across the board, but the majority of students that I have had in my classes that have done summit gap year are more articulate, generally more engaged. They ask great questions.
In fact, sometimes they do such a good job theologically and biblically. Sometimes there are some topics where you can tell my Summit gap year student two things. One, they understand or have a little bit more insight than some of the other students in the class. And of course, when I’m teaching the New Testament, Old Testament is a gen ed. So I have to keep all 40 students in mind whenever I’m teaching, but they also not only seem to understand things, but they also ask more insightful questions.
(09:30):
They are a little bit more mature when it comes to having a year of experience out and they are leaders on the campus. The one young man I’m thinking about right now, it’s just, I love having him in class. I know I can count on him to make the class better. I know he’s serving at the institution. And so there’s a different level of maturity.
There’s a different level of spiritual growth that you pick up on, a different level of insight and a different level of interest in not only the spirit and work of God, the spirit and God’s work, but also God’s word and how they want to be a part of that making a difference because the gospel’s not solely about the relationship between God and humankind. It’s about, also, the relationship with one another and understanding ourselves better and making an impact on this world.
(10:18):
And I just, man, whenever I know that there’s a Summit gap year student in my class, I get just a little bit more excited because I know they’re going to make class better because I can make a class great. I mean, good. I can make a class good, but the students really do make it great. And that’s been my experience with the majority of those Summit gap year students.
So we would strongly encourage you as parents to encourage, incentivize, look into, “Hey, have you thought about, since you really don’t know what you’re wanting to do, I know you love the Lord, I know you’re exploring big questions. Man, have you thought about doing Summit gap year?” And if you want just a taste of it, come to the summer camps, right? If you’re 16, 17, 18 years old, if you want a taste of the beauty of what can happen, come to that one and a half, two weeks there this summer at Summit.
(11:11):
And more than likely, I’ll see you or your child there. So thanks for asking to know on that. It’s really, it is worth students’ time and resources, especially if you’re unsure where the Lord’s leading in life.
Janel Greig (11:28):
Yeah. I think on the last podcast we were talking about doing online options for kids that might not have a clarity in the next step. And I think we talked a little bit about pros and cons to that, but I also think an opportunity for a gap year to get out there out of your comfort zone.
And it’s kind of like we talked about that on campus experience versus at home experience that gap year provides, and maybe they would know somebody else there. I don’t know that they wouldn’t, but the likelihood of them going into this setting with other students that they’ve never met before, having to step into those unknown relationships and navigate that, those are all life skills that are just a bonus to the content that’s provided.
Dr. Matt Jones (12:10):
And like you said, it really does. It sets them up for their initial year at college in a different way. And you just can see in the majority of cases a marked difference. So it really is great.
Janel Greig (12:23):
So while I’m hearing this as a parent and I’m just like, “Oh, I just want my girl to step into that after her senior year,” but I also want that decision to be hers of where God is calling her to. So just overall, not just about me and what I want for my child stepping into the Summit gap year, but how can parents support their child’s decision making process post high school without actually taking that over or imposing their own preferences?
Dr. Matt Jones (12:49):
Yeah, I think that’s a really good question. And with the studies that have come out in terms of lawnmower parents, and this is even more, I think in my opinion, problematic than helicopter parents because they’re just trying to pave a way where their child faces as little difficulty as possible. Parents can step into a role that maybe is not best for their students, their child’s development and growth.
So my wife and I really like to ask quality questions. “All right, Sally, Bob, why are you wanting to go to university? “And listen intently, right? Listen, hear their heart. “Do you want to go to university? Do you want to do a gap year?” Whatnot. Here’s another question. “What do you see as opportunities and what do you think are your responsibilities when you go off to college?” Because they may give responses that indicate maybe just maybe going off to university is not what’s best for them.
(13:47):
How long do you want to go to college? What are your goals, your values and objectives in going? Because if you can discern and if they can articulate those, then if you’re able to hear that, that gives a little bit of direction and discernment in terms of what the options you should consider. If they only want to go for two years, then maybe community college is best.
Janel Greig (14:12):
True.
Dr. Matt Jones (14:12):
Maybe if they don’t know what their desire is in terms of, or even design in terms of work and life, a gap year can be extremely helpful or just working. Another question I like to ask, my wife and I like to ask, how can your mom and I help you in the process? How can we help you succeed in this? Because we’re not going to take over. All right. It is your job to get the application done. It’s your job to get the fees in, but how can we help?
And some of the kids will go, “Well, I don’t know.” Well, then maybe just maybe you just say, “Hey, can we go and visit one or two schools just to see what questions rise up?” And you can say, “What schools are you interested in?” Or we can say, “Hey, since you don’t know, would you mind if we looked at two or three together?”
(15:05):
I just think it’s important to listen for their answers and do follow-ups. So I really encourage you start providing and asking the questions around summer of your sophomore, even junior year. If you’re wanting to go to Ivy League schools, you might want to start a little bit earlier. So those are a couple things.
Janel Greig (15:26):
Yeah, that’s great.
Dr. Matt Jones (15:26):
One more I think I want to point out is, I would strongly encourage, if you do have a strong inkling, incentivize. Don’t decide for them. I’ve run across too many students at the college level where they’re only here because their mom or their dad have made them and they’ve not given them any option or any choice. And my observation is students who have a choice and have incentives and have responsibility in the choice seem to take the college experience a little bit more seriously. They’re a little more intentional and they get a little bit more value out of it. So those are a couple things I would encourage parents to consider in that process. Yeah.
Janel Greig (16:16):
Can I ask you when you talk about incentivizing, what are some recommendations or some things you’ve seen with regards to the incentivizing versus making that decision?
Dr. Matt Jones (16:27):
Yeah. I have seen parents say, all right, if you’re interested in them going into a certain school, then you can say, “Well, listen, this is our responsibility. This is yours.” And so I like to know and I like the kids to know here is what mom and dad are helping with, and here’s what you’re going to be responsible for.
And so we really wanted our kids to go to a Christian college and we said, “We’re going to give a little bit more for you going to a Christian college than going to a secular university. However, we’re going to support you in going to that secular university, but you may have to get a few more scholarships. You may have to do a little bit more work in terms of your time there.” And so that’s one, that’s one that we found really effective.
(17:22):
No, that’s helpful. These are different things that you’re going to do. The other thing too is maybe you say, “Hey, if you go to this school, you will need to go to a community college because if it’s an Ivy League school that is extremely expensive, you may need to say, “Listen, we really want you to go there also. We know you’ve been accepted, but we may need you to do a couple years of community college to financially lay a foundation.” So helping them understand what their costs are going to be, what your costs are going to be, may be a fair way also to incentivize.
Janel Greig (17:57):
Fantastic. Thank you. That’s great.
Dr. Matt Jones (17:58):
Those are a couple things to think about.
Janel Greig (18:00):
I’m gleaning from you. Curious, Matt, personally for you, were there any lessons from your own post-high school experience that you wish you’d learned at that time?
Dr. Matt Jones (18:12):
Yeah, this was kind of a tough question for me, and I really had to think about it. Not that I didn’t have issues, but it’s been a long time, but I wish that I had gone into college with a little bit more self-awareness. In other words, I wish I had gone in with knowing a few more of my weaknesses in relationships, in communications, the ability to communicate or lack thereof, so that whenever I went to college, I would have the understanding that, man, these are areas of growth that being in a community that I was going into could be really life forming and transformational.
And instead of coming out of college with some of the deficiencies I probably didn’t have to have, if I had recognized them earlier, I would have gone into a little bit more with a little bit more humility to show, man, these professors, these staff, these fellow students have more to offer than sometimes I’m willing to not only accept, but also that the Holy Spirit can use to help me grow and mature. Because what I’m finding now more and more is students are understanding college as just the next step. And the old high school diploma is now what is college. And the college is now what is the master’s, if I’m hopefully making that clear.
And I really want to challenge students when they come, that, man, this is not just an expanded high school. This is your opportunity now that you’re away from, in many cases, mom and dad, that’s not a bad thing, right? I mean, mom and dad’s are great, but this is a time and a place for you really to firm up what you believe and why, put things to the test and not see college as, “Oh, this is just extended adolescence.”
(20:19):
This is actually my opportunity to develop into the man and woman that God’s created me to be. The other one, this is a small one, is budgeting. I wish I knew budgeting going in. I had to learn budgeting when it was almost too late. And so I’m hoping parents teach their kids budgeting prior to going off to college.
Janel Greig (20:39):
So important. And that can be a nod back to our prior podcast that we had our guest on with regards to financially helping educate and equip our kiddos.
Dr. Matt Jones (20:51):
Absolutely.
Janel Greig (20:52):
Matt, as we prepare to close out, and I feel like we could do many more episodes on this, but just so appreciative of what you’ve shared, what are some upside down parenting pieces that maybe you can give our parents, listeners to help their kids approach this post-high school decision with confidence and faith?
Dr. Matt Jones (21:11):
That’s a great question. I want to focus on three things. One, briefly, what are you going to prioritize as a parent and what are you going to encourage as a parent? I’m sorry, your GPA is not as important as sometimes parents make it out to be. We had a student, I want my kids to grow in character more than get a 4.0.
Janel Greig (21:39):
Amen. Yep.
Dr. Matt Jones (21:40):
And we had a student, I caught a student cheating and I essentially put it out to the class, “Hey, if you cheated on this particular assignment, you have a week to come and talk to me before I go and seek you out.” And I said, “It’s always better for you to come and talk to me before I seek you out.”
And I had a student here at a Christian school that came to me and said, “Yeah, I didn’t want to tell you. And I sought my parents’ advice and they said, ‘No, don’t come and tell him because it’ll affect your GPA.’” And I was like, “Wait a minute, what are we characterizing?” So I would challenge, beg, ask parents to have an upside down parenting podcast. I mean, not a podcast, don’t be in competition with us, but an upside down parenting perspective that their character is more important than their GPA.
(22:38):
Second, equip and empower them to make the decision. Don’t make the decision for them because you’re laying a foundation for mom and dad stepping in and making decisions for you. And while you can incentivize, you can encourage, you can ask questions, equip and empower them to make a decision. And if they fail in the decision, it’s okay. As long as it’s not sin, it’s okay.
Even Jesus’ disciples experienced failure in Mark 9, and Jesus walked alongside of them. He did not protect them from every failure. And then last but not least, this probably is not going to be very popular, but I think it is so important in working with students and seeing it in my own kids, have them pay for a portion of their education. They need to have buy-in. They need to realize, “Man, I paid $100 a class and this professor is not using my money wisely and they seem to have more buy-in.” And on top of that, it is more difficult getting jobs now.
(23:45):
And the more your child works and has a resume and demonstrates faithfulness, it is just so important and it causes them to have time management. And so they need to have buy-in with their education. And I think if you’re an athlete, I think you’re paying to some degree for an education, right? Even though, because you don’t have, really, time for a job, but that is your job.
But I really think kids need to have some work on the side. And if that costs them a 4.0, we’re more concerned about their character than their GPA. So those are three areas. There’s so many more that I see, but those are three that we have found are important, not only for students, but have been important for our kids, is that one’s finishing out college and one’s going into his senior year and one’s about to start.
(24:35):
They seem to take it more seriously because they have buy-in, they know character is more important to GPA and they’ve been empowered to make the decision.
Janel Greig (24:45):
Those are fantastic takeaways. Thankful for you and Cat and the work that you’ve done and your willingness to share, Matt. I personally appreciate everything you’ve shared, but I know our listeners are going to glean a lot from this content. So thank you.
Dr. Matt Jones (25:00):
Thanks for letting me talk a little bit more. This is an area that I really, higher education is so, so, so important. And we just pray for wisdom on the parents’ part.
Janel Greig (25:14):
Absolutely.
Dr. Matt Jones (25:15):
To give their students the opportunity to make wise decisions.
Janel Greig (25:18):
Yep. It’s awesome. Thanks, guys.
Dr. Matt Jones (25:20):
And if nothing else, if they don’t know, go to Summit gap year.
Janel Greig (25:23):
Yes. I’m not going to push that too much, but yes. Okay. Well, for my kid. I’m going to push it gently and with your recommendations. There you go. It will be her decision. There you go. But I love that option. Listeners, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Upside Down Parenting. What’s a key takeaway from this episode? Guiding your teen through these next steps isn’t just about academics or logistics. It’s about helping them grow into confident, faith-filled young adults who can make intentional decisions for their future.
If you found today’s conversation helpful and our previous episode on this topic, be sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with other parents who want to raise kids prepared for life, learning, and faith. Until next time, keep looking for ways to guide your kids with wisdom, patience, and an upside down perspective that points them towards God’s kingdom. See you next time.